I
Muslims, why would God declare Jesus to be His Son, and then deny this 600 yrs later?
- Status
J
Jesusisgod
Guest
We should not be arguing on our interpretation of biblical scripture because even amongst Christians, we have differing views. So, it is not surprising that muslims here have even warped understandings of scripture. If they insist on calling black as brown, you cannot change their minds.
What we should always do when tackling muslims is ask on a relative stance. Even their own scripture can be used against them because they contradict each other. For now, we make simple comparisons across the 2 faiths.
For example, is Muhammad the greater prophet?
Jesus was born with miracles.
Muhammad was orphaned at a very young age.
Jesus had an impeccable and righteous life.
Muhammad lived a life of murdering, robbing, raping & pedophilia
Jesus offered Himself as a redemption sacrifice.
Muhammad died after being poisoned by one of his slave girls
Jesus is returning from the heavens.
Muhammad is today still rotting at Medina accompanied by maggots.
God gave no name when Moses asked Him
Allah gave 99 names in the qur’an.
God spoke in public about Jesus being His Son at river Jordan.
Allah could not even save muhammad’s own sons from dying in their infancies.
God said it is disgusting to remarry the divorced woman
Allah says to let the divorced woman have sex with the new husband before returning.
It is very obvious to anyone with a minimal level of logic that muhammad is inferior. Inferior in birth, inferior in life and inferior in death. And certainly, allah is no god. If muslims INSIST on calling the inferior as greater, it is their choice. If they want to stuff faecal matter into their mouths and say it is chocolate, it is their choice.
We cannot open the eyes of the blind. Only God can.
There are many many ways to show the foolishness of Islam.
What we should always do when tackling muslims is ask on a relative stance. Even their own scripture can be used against them because they contradict each other. For now, we make simple comparisons across the 2 faiths.
For example, is Muhammad the greater prophet?
Jesus was born with miracles.
Muhammad was orphaned at a very young age.
Jesus had an impeccable and righteous life.
Muhammad lived a life of murdering, robbing, raping & pedophilia
Jesus offered Himself as a redemption sacrifice.
Muhammad died after being poisoned by one of his slave girls
Jesus is returning from the heavens.
Muhammad is today still rotting at Medina accompanied by maggots.
God gave no name when Moses asked Him
Allah gave 99 names in the qur’an.
God spoke in public about Jesus being His Son at river Jordan.
Allah could not even save muhammad’s own sons from dying in their infancies.
God said it is disgusting to remarry the divorced woman
Allah says to let the divorced woman have sex with the new husband before returning.
It is very obvious to anyone with a minimal level of logic that muhammad is inferior. Inferior in birth, inferior in life and inferior in death. And certainly, allah is no god. If muslims INSIST on calling the inferior as greater, it is their choice. If they want to stuff faecal matter into their mouths and say it is chocolate, it is their choice.
We cannot open the eyes of the blind. Only God can.
There are many many ways to show the foolishness of Islam.
L
littleprincess
Guest
Because the God of Jacob,Israel and Jesus and the god of the Muslims are not the same two gods. This is why the muslims are certain of this as they were not listening to the same god as Jesus’ God. Simple really. Of course they believe it, if you believe a lie. If all you have ever heard is a lie then you cannot be aware of Jesus’ God. If Jesus is your Lord and saviour you have heard the truth and believe it. For those who refuse to hear the truth they cannot be saved, as Jesus said, you can only come to the Father through me. You can be as peace loving as you like, most people who are not Christians like to be peace loving, for if you are a Christian you know the path to salvation is not always comfortable, but it is the prize that Christ Jesus will reveal in his second coming that is what we are longing for. Christians find their peace in Christ Jesus, it doesn’t mean that we walk around trying to create contentment so we have peace, we just learn over time not to be worried about this world and fix our eyes on a greater peace Christ Jesus. You may not like what I have written, if not then approach the throne of Christ Jesus about it, its his word not mine. All I know is I don’t want the peace of this world, why would I, if Jesus comes back today, it will soon burn up and he will create a new heaven and a new earth, once again don’t be angry at me, if you are angry at these words they are not mine but Christ Jesus and if you are angry then you truly have not found peace. Do one thing shut you eyes and listen, if you hear a gentle knock answer the door, peace will be on the other side. If you don’t know who this peace is, then contact a Catholic Church today and they will tell you.
L
littleprincess
Guest
Because the God of Jacob,Israel and Jesus and the god of the Muslims are not the same two gods. This is why the muslims are certain of this as they were not listening to the same god as Jesus’ God. Simple really. Of course they believe it, if you believe a lie. If all you have ever heard is a lie then you cannot be aware of Jesus’ God. If Jesus is your Lord and saviour you have heard the truth and believe it. For those who refuse to hear the truth they cannot be saved, as Jesus said, you can only come to the Father through me. You can be as peace loving as you like, most people who are not Christians like to be peace loving, for if you are a Christian you know the path to salvation is not always comfortable, but it is the prize that Christ Jesus will reveal in his second coming that is what we are longing for. Christians find their peace in Christ Jesus, it doesn’t mean that we walk around trying to create contentment so we have peace, we just learn over time not to be worried about this world and fix our eyes on a greater peace Christ Jesus. You may not like what I have written, if not then approach the throne of Christ Jesus about it, its his word not mine. All I know is I don’t want the peace of this world, why would I, if Jesus comes back today, it will soon burn up and he will create a new heaven and a new earth, once again don’t be angry at me, if you are angry at these words they are not mine but Christ Jesus and if you are angry then you truly have not found peace. Do one thing shut you eyes and listen, if you hear a gentle knock answer the door, peace will be on the other side. If you don’t know who this peace is, then contact a Catholic Church today and they will tell you.
L
littleprincess
Guest
Look at the scripture format, the Lord hath said unto me, thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee,
He has beget David after he said “Thou art my Son”,
Jesus was the only begotten Son of God,
the beget came before Son of God,
hard to explain but with scripture it is important to look at the format of how it is written. Many people get confused by this. Also many people are not learned enough in the scriptures and do not understand the true meaning of these scriptures. If you are not a Christian please don’t try to arrange fancy arguements, if you don’t know God you are unable to understand the scriptures as Jesus was the Fathers example to us to show us who God truly is, as he was the word who became flesh. All I am saying is humble yourselves as little children, even students of the bible can spend years trying to fathom it, but the more it is used to argue the less you will understand, and if you know the Holy Spirit you will know he only chooses who he will reveal his secrets to.
B
Booklover
Guest
So you consider it bizarre, that God who is omnipotent and can do anything should be 3 persons in one, but consider it perfectly reasonable to believe that the devil crawls up people’s noses at night and spends it there, and that a billion Muslims snort water up their noses every morning to get him out???
Talk about a bizarre and ridiculous belief!!
Vickie
K
Kadaveri
Guest
I’m not pushing the Qur’an on anyone as truth, you’re free to reject it’s perspective on your faith; but arguing (as someone in this thread has done) that Qur’an doesn’t understand the doctrines it contradicts (such as the divine sonship) is wrong, it understands them fine.
B
Booklover
Guest
No, it doesn’t! It sees it as purely physical! God cannot have a son without a wife for intercourse!
Vickie
K
Kadaveri
Guest
K
Kadaveri
Guest
Rather than throwing exclamation points at me, try actually proving it.
I
inJESUS
Guest
I
inJESUS
Guest
it is indeed bizarre if not understood. What is bizarre in believing that God and His Word are One deity, not 2? is it bizarre to call Allah uncreated, His Word (Quran) uncreated, yet He is and his word One Allah? we do not find this bizarre, why do you?
what do you find bizarre in this passage from OT:
“After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: ‘Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.’ But Abram said, ‘O Lord GOD, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?’ And Abram said, ‘Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.’ And behold, the word of the LORD came to him: ‘This man shall not be your heir; your very own son shall be your heir.’ And he brought him outside and said, ‘Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.’ Then he said to him, ‘So shall your offspring be.’ And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. **And he said to him, ‘I am the LORD who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans **to give you this land to possess.’” Genesis 15:1-7
or Jeremiah 1:
Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you;
and John:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him.
What is so bizarre in the belief that God and His Word are 1 God?
this if indeed the Trinity concept is about 3 deities in One God, which is not the case.
you are actually trying to interpret it in light of our belief but this is found nowhere in the reasons the Quran itself gives. If the author of the Quran knows that Jesus is the Son as He is the Logos, and that the title has nothing to do with what it superficiaaly look like, then words like wife and begetting become too superficial, irrelevent and wrong theologically. The author should have actually denied that the Word of God is God, instead of turning round the bush around the title itself, trying to refute it by mentionig women and children and feeling appaled! don’t you think an all knowing God should refute the theology behind the title and not the title itself by giving irrelevent reasons?
“Never has Allah begotten a son, nor is there any other god besides Him”.
begetting a son and “other god” are in the same sentence and both the word “begetting” and “other god” are totally alien to Trinity. Note that some English translations of the Bible use begotten to describe Jesus. However, the word being translated really has nothing to do with begetting. Even when begotten is used in an English translation (for lack of a clear single equivalent word in English) Christian readers do not interpret this word in the way the Qur’an suggests Christians do.
if this were true, which is not , then Trinity does NOT teach that the Word of God is a part of God but that it is God! hence the Quran is wrong again. Actually, there is not one single refutation which has anything to do with Christianity. Dont you think God knows better than this?
L
littleprincess
Guest
the Lord God are saviour says to be peace makers, unfortunately there is great hostilty where there is disbelief of the one and only fact that there is only one true living God. I agree absolutely there are more than one mention of the fact that there are more sons than just Jesus, only difference, they are adopted sons of God. Jesus was there in the beginning with the Father, he came from Heaven and was born to this world by the Spirit of God. He was the word made flesh to reveal to us the Father. The sons you mention were not there in the beginning with the Father. Unfortunately this is a misconception of many, that when Jesus was born that was the beginning of his life. This is incorrect, he was there in the beginning before time began. As the book of Revelation tells us all about this. The book of Revelation in a nutshell is the love story of how God decided he wanted children and before he created them he knew they would fall, and Jesus put up his hand and said I will do this, I will die for them. For he was the only unblemished lamb who could. Jesus was there in the beginning, Adam and every son after him was created in his image. They were not in heaven before time began, but Jesus was and he was his son before the Father said “let there be light”, and also “and he created them, in our image” God was not alone and he didn’t create us like the angels. Therefore we know by the book of Revelation Jesus was in heaven before time began with The Father, and The Holy Spirit.
W
whomper
Guest
It certainly seems that there is a conceptual difference in the nature of God, between Christianity and Islam. From reading this thread, it sounds like Islam wants to interpret the “son”-ness of God as physical, since man’s perception of offspring is indeed physical.
It’s hard for many Christians to understand the nature of God when He speaks of “His Son”, “my Father”, etc. And, many Christians cannot accept that a human body can exist without having a human father and human mother. If Christians have trouble with this, is it any wonder that Muslims would have trouble with it?
Maybe an analogy would help:
God is like the chemical H20.
God, Jesus, Holy Spirit
Ice, water, steam.
3 forms of the same thing.
It’s clear that Mohammad refused to accept the divinity of Jesus - that Jesus was God Incarnate. Many people feel the same way. If they can’t accept the Incarnate God, then they can’t accept the teachings of the Bible (except, maybe, as philosophy or psychology). When Jesus Christ+ came to Man to teach him, He (Jesus) fulfilled prophysies in the OT. The NT became the word of salvation, the Word of Love - The Word. But we cannot ignore the OT anymore than we can ignore the bases of any life.
Mohammad went on to start another “religion”. Unfortunately, he took the road of violence in order to spread his gospel. Even today, in conflicting appearances, the Quran speaks of killing the non-believers. That is in direct opposition to the teachings of Jesus, who spread the Word of Love.
If one cannot accept the Love of God, how can he accept Christianity? And if that’s so, than what recourse does he have, if he feels the NEED to believe something? Especially if his neighbors (i.e., those living around him) practice religion by force?
It’s hard for many Christians to understand the nature of God when He speaks of “His Son”, “my Father”, etc. And, many Christians cannot accept that a human body can exist without having a human father and human mother. If Christians have trouble with this, is it any wonder that Muslims would have trouble with it?
Maybe an analogy would help:
God is like the chemical H20.
God, Jesus, Holy Spirit
Ice, water, steam.
3 forms of the same thing.
It’s clear that Mohammad refused to accept the divinity of Jesus - that Jesus was God Incarnate. Many people feel the same way. If they can’t accept the Incarnate God, then they can’t accept the teachings of the Bible (except, maybe, as philosophy or psychology). When Jesus Christ+ came to Man to teach him, He (Jesus) fulfilled prophysies in the OT. The NT became the word of salvation, the Word of Love - The Word. But we cannot ignore the OT anymore than we can ignore the bases of any life.
Mohammad went on to start another “religion”. Unfortunately, he took the road of violence in order to spread his gospel. Even today, in conflicting appearances, the Quran speaks of killing the non-believers. That is in direct opposition to the teachings of Jesus, who spread the Word of Love.
If one cannot accept the Love of God, how can he accept Christianity? And if that’s so, than what recourse does he have, if he feels the NEED to believe something? Especially if his neighbors (i.e., those living around him) practice religion by force?
J
Jehuty_X
Guest
// exodus 3;15 God further said to Moses: «“You are to tell the Israelites, Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.”»
R
ralphinal
Guest
And, none of the names given by Allah include the one given to Moses…nor does it include “Father” “heavenly Father” or “Daddy”
W
whomper
Guest
Just a bit incomplete, especially since you didn’t quote where God gave His name to Moses:
C
cathopologist
Guest
I don’t call twisting the Truth “reasonable and rational”.
Thanks.
W
whomper
Guest
Do you mean the WHOLE truth, or only part of the truth of the NT?
The American code of testimony says that we are to tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth.
This means that we tell it all and not just the part we want to use.
The NT tells the truth of God Incarnate coming to Mankind. It tells of the loving nature of Jesus Christ+ as God Incarnate.
The Quran refutes this teaching about Jesus, accepting Him only as another prophet. Indeed, the Quran teaches that Muhammad was so correct that to counter *his *interpretations invokes death to the infidel!
If a prophet’s words are so strong as to invoke death upon contradicting the prophet, why aren’t believers killed for contradicting Jesus?
And no one has answered my question about the Mullahs who “corrected” Muhammad about the jihads. Since they contradicted Muhammad, why weren’t they killed for their pronouncements? Certainly would have saved a lot of misery in today’s world!
- Status