Muslims worship the same God as we do?

[childofmary1143]

In another post about Pope John Paul II kissing the Quran somebody made the comment that Muslims worship the same God as we do.

I can’t see how that is true. While the muslim faith is monotheistic as is Catholicism that doesn’t mean we worship the same God.

Muslims don’t believe that Jesus is God.
Muslims don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.

 

[Sgt_Sweaters]

+JMJ

Of course, Protestants don’t believe in most of the Sacraments, or the unity of the Church, or any number of true doctrines. Heresy skews one’s view of God, and often destroys it. Yet a heretic does not always completely forsake God for a devil.

Islam is a sort of heresy, albeit one unlike all others we’ve seen. It was birthed significantly not only from paganism but from corrupt Christian teaching. Try reading Hillaire Belloc’s “The Great Heresies”.

 

[Kotton]

While the muslim faith is monotheistic as is Catholicism that doesn’t mean we worship the same God.

Muslims don’t believe that Jesus is God.
Muslims don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.

No, they do not believe Jesus is God, but neither do Jews, and yet we know they have the true God. The Muslims have a distorted understanding of God, and put together ideas from pagans, Hebrews and Christians. There is only One True God, and anyone proclaiming one God is following what has been placed in their hearts, no matter how misled otherwise. The Native Americans spoke of the Great Spirit, yet did not understand God as Jews and Christians did. Pray that the Muslims find the True God as He really is.

Kotton

 

[devotus]

We do not worship the same God as the Muslims. We believe in a triune God – they do not

The God of Abraham revealed himself to the Jews and the Jews later rejected Christ. It can be said that the Jews worship the same God as Christians but have an immature understanding of him

The God of Abraham did NOT reveal himself to Mohammed.
Mohammed made up his religion from hearing stories from Gnostics and other heretics

 

[Usagi]

Muslims don’t believe that Jesus is God.
Muslims don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.

Neither do Jews, but they clearly worship the same God we do. Indeed, they had Him first…

It’s true that Muslims don’t describe God in the same way Catholics do, but that just means they’re not Christian. Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike worship the God who called Abraham, but we disagree about His nature and the way He commands us to worship Him…

 

[vern_humphrey]

We do not worship the same God as the Muslims. We believe in a triune God – they do not

The God of Abraham revealed himself to the Jews and the Jews later rejected Christ. It can be said that the Jews worship the same God as Christians but have an immature understanding of him

The God of Abraham did NOT reveal himself to Mohammed.
Mohammed made up his religion from hearing stories from Gnostics and other heretics

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

As Pope John Paul the Great said in his Apostolic Letter, LAETAMUR MAGNOPERE, introducing us to the Catechism:

This edition was prepared by an Interdicasterial Commission which I appointed for this purpose in 1993. Presided over by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, this Commission worked diligently to fulfill the mandate it received. It devoted particular attention to a study of the many suggested changes to the contents of the text, which in these years had come from around the world and from various parts of the ecclesial community.

In this regard one can certainly understand that such a remarkable number of suggested improvements shows the extraordinary interest that the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.

(My emphasis)

As Catholics, we believe that Muslims “profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

 

[devotus]

…Muslims alike worship the God who called Abraham, but we disagree about His nature and the way He commands us to worship Him…

The God of Abraham NEVER spoke to Mohammed as the God of Abraham DID speak to the Jews and Christians

This is a HUGE difference

 

[devotus]

As Catholics, we believe that Muslims “profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Would the God of Abraham say this

“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” (Quran 5:73)

or This

“They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve,” (Quran 5:73)"

or This

“And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!” (Quran 5:30)

 

[vern_humphrey]

Would the God of Abraham say this

“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” (Quran 5:73)

or This

“They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve,” (Quran 5:73)"

or This

“And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!” (Quran 5:30)

Would a Catholic say, “If the Catechism disagrees with me, the Catechism is wrong?”

 

[devotus]

Would a Catholic say, “If the Catechism disagrees with me, the Catechism is wrong?”

Yes… The catechism is not infallible nor is it a dogma of the faith to believe that Muslim worship a True god.

Do you think the God of Abraham Spoke to mohammed?

 

[Usagi]

Do you think the God of Abraham Spoke to mohammed?

Hmm. I think you are raising two different issues that do not necessarily call for the same answer.

As a Catholic, obviously I don’t believe that the Quran came word for word from Heaven, complete with its claims to correct and supersede Judaism and Christianity. If I did, I’d be a Muslim.

On the other hand, I do believe (as even the people on the other side of this question agree) that many of Islam’s ideas come from Judaism and Christianity. Heck, they’re not all the way there, but they have a higher regard for Jesus than many Jews, and a higher regard for Mary than most Protestants! However it came to Muhammad, Islam does possess a good measure of the Truth. Therefore I believe they do worship the true God, even if without complete understanding.

Does that make sense?

Usagi

 

[brownbat]

There is only one God. The way we reach Him may differ based on human interpretations and spiritual inspiration, but there is only one God.
Those Muslims who seek God hunger and thirst for salvation as we Christians do. While we know that Jesus is OUR salvation, we also know that our Jewish brothers and sisters, including JESUS, believe that strict obedience to old testament law is the way to salvation. We cannot be so proud, so vain to think our way is the only path. Our God is omnipotent. He created all of us, including the Muslims.
May He reign, and may we be so gracious to others to accept their path to Him.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Yes… The catechism is not infallible nor is it a dogma of the faith to believe that Muslim worship a True god.

Do you think the God of Abraham Spoke to mohammed?

No, personally, I do not. But all that means is that the quran isn’t an inspired book of scripture ( we know that there is no further revelation after the Apostles). However, all Truth and goodness comes from God. And, like it or not, there are elements of truth in Islam. There is one God, the God of Abraham, who created the world, who is omnipresent, etc, etc. Also, though they do not believe in His Divinity, the believe Jesus was the Messiah of God and was born of a virgin, etc. So, there is truth there (amongst a whole lot of untruth, from a Christian perspective) and that is of God.

Islam seems to be another heresy of Christianity, but, as Hilliare Belloc said, heresy survives by the truth it contains. On the other hand, the quran is deceptive about Jesus Christ. And that is not of God, obviously. A scary thought, indeed, that through this deception, Muslims are robbed of the saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

For me, in weighing all the arguments above (and others) I am swayed by what the Bible says about Ishmael. Remember that Islam springs from Ishmael (the Arabs and thus Muhammad are descendants of Ishmael). The Bible says that **God would make **Ishmael into a great nation. (not great in the modern sense, but great as in large). Also, remember that Ishmael is the child born of the slave and not the free woman (cf Gal 4:21 ), that Ishmael would grow to be a wild man and raise his hand against all men, and all men’s hands would be against him. And he would pitch his tents over all his brethren. (Gen 16:12). Could pitching his tents over all his brethren be eluding to forcible conversions? I’m not sure, of course. But it seems prophetic to me.

Had the Church not spoken on the matter, I might have been convinced otherwise. But I will always remain obedient to the Church, even when I don’t fully understand the issue. By the way, the Catechism is not infallible, but I thought Lumen Gentium, on which CCC 841 is based, is a dogmatic constitution of the Church. Isn’t this infallible?

 

[devotus]

For me, in weighing all the arguments above (and others) I am swayed by what the Bible says about Ishmael. Remember that Islam springs from Ishmael (the Arabs and thus Muhammad are descendants of Ishmael). The Bible says that **God would make **Ishmael into a great nation. (not great in the modern sense, but great as in large). Also, remember that Ishmael is the child born of the slave and not the free woman (cf Gal 4:21 ), that Ishmael would grow to be a wild man and raise his hand against all men, and all men’s hands would be against him. And he would pitch his tents over all his brethren. (Gen 16:12). Could pitching his tents over all his brethren be eluding to forcible conversions? I’m not sure, of course. But it seems prophetic to me.

Arabs are a race of people - Not a religion . The two have nothing to do with each other. Many Arab tribes were also Christian before they were conquered by Muslims. I think Islam in the bible is the “other gospel” that St Paul spoke of ( only with other heresies)

Had the Church not spoken on the matter, I might have been convinced otherwise. But I will always remain obedient to the Church, even when I don’t fully understand the issue. By the way, the Catechism is not infallible, but I thought Lumen Gentium, on which CCC 841 is based, is a dogmatic constitution of the Church. Isn’t this infallible?

That is a different can of worms – If a Pastoral council is infallible since no new dogmas were defined in VII. If you have any pre VII pronouncements of Muslim worshiping the same God , I would be very interested in reading them.

Since you believe they worship that same God are Muslims entitled to Salvation simply because they are Muslims? ( Forget about ignorance of the gospel as that pertains to individuals who has not heard the word)

 

[devotus]

There is only one God. The way we reach Him may differ based on human interpretations and spiritual inspiration,.

I am sorry to say that that is an out right heretical statement.

The way we know God is through the revelation that he has provided us… First through the Jews then the Holy Catholic Church

While we know that Jesus is OUR salvation, we also know that our Jewish brothers and sisters, including JESUS, believe that strict obedience to old testament law is the way to salvation. .

This is not true

Jesus fulfilled the Law… All Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone.

Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

We cannot be so proud, so vain to think our way is the only path. .

I believe that you are subscribing to religious pluralism which has been condemned by the church

I would suggest a reading of “DOMINUS IESUS”
may be helpful

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

 

[devotus]

Hmm. I think you are raising two different issues that do not necessarily call for the same answer.

As a Catholic, obviously I don’t believe that the Quran came word for word from Heaven, complete with its claims to correct and supersede Judaism and Christianity. If I did, I’d be a Muslim.

On the other hand, I do believe (as even the people on the other side of this question agree) that many of Islam’s ideas come from Judaism and Christianity. Heck, they’re not all the way there, but they have a higher regard for Jesus than many Jews, and a higher regard for Mary than most Protestants! However it came to Muhammad, Islam does possess a good measure of the Truth. Therefore I believe they do worship the true God, even if without complete understanding.

Does that make sense?

Usagi

I think the central question is , If I make up my own religion but put in bits of Christian truth here and there at what point does that very distorted image of God become unrecognizable?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Yes… The catechism is not infallible nor is it a dogma of the faith to believe that Muslim worship a True god.

But what authority do you have to say that? The Catechism was written under the supervision of hte present pope, and promulgated by his predecessor.

What are your credentials?

Do you think the God of Abraham Spoke to mohammed?

The question is, does the God of Abraham speak to you, and tell you to reject the Catechism?

 

[Jerusha]

There are many paths, some are more right than others. We believe that Catholicism has more truth than any other. To condemn other religions, seeing nothing good in them, however, is to turn those people against us and reduce their chances of conversion.

There is a middle ground between religious bigotry and religious pluralism.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

Devotus, I want you to know that I have added you to my buddy list.

Childofmary1143,---- to devotus’ well made comments I will add only this. When a Christian kills in the name on his God & Holy Book he is doing the opposite of what his God & Holy Book tell him to do. When a Muslam kills in the same names he is doing exactly what his god & holy book say to do. If anyone disagrees I challange them to read the koran for themseves.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I think the central question is , If I make up my own religion but put in bits of Christian truth here and there at what point does that very distorted image of God become unrecognizable?

Isn’t that what you do when you reject the Catechism?