Muslims worship the same God as we do?

[devotus]

There are many paths, some are more right than others. We believe that Catholicism has more truth than any other. To condemn other religions, seeing nothing good in them, however, is to turn those people against us and reduce their chances of conversion.

There is a middle ground between religious bigotry and religious pluralism.

I reject nothing that is true in other religions ( ie taken from Christianity) ( Vat II)

But salvation is through Christ alone - a single narrow path .
Matthew 7:13

You do people no favor in keeping them in darkness.

“But God forbid that the sons of the Catholic Church ever in any way be hostile to those who are not joined with us in the same bonds of faith and love; but rather they should always be zealous to seek them out and aid them, whether poor, or sick, or afflicted with any other burdens, with all the offices of Christian charity; and they should especially endeavor to snatch them from the darkness of error in which they unhappily lie, and lead them back to Catholic truth and to the most loving Mother the Church, who never ceases to stretch out her maternal hands lovingly to them, and to call them back to her bosom so that, established and firm in faith, hope, and charity, and ‘being fruitful in every good work’ [Colossians 1:10], they may attain eternal salvation.” --Pope Pius IX

 

[devotus]

Isn’t that what you do when you reject the Catechism?

The Bishops are GUARDIANS of Truth that has been handed down by the processors. I have asked for any other historical record that the church believed that we worship the same God as the Muslims that is later than 40 years.

Can you provide this?

I believe that the churches curent position on the Muslims is a novelty and has changed over time

 

[Jerusha]

snatch them from the darkness of error in which they unhappily lie, and lead them back to Catholic truth and to the most loving Mother the Church

Those words are a bit harsh. I prefer to act in a more gentle manner, and leave the conversion to God.

 

[devotus]

Those words are a bit harsh. I prefer to act in a more gentle manner, and leave the conversion to God.

We can agree on the End result-- even if our means are different

 

[vern_humphrey]

The Bishops are GUARDIANS of Truth that has been handed down by the processors. I have asked for any other historical record that the church believed that we worship the same God as the Muslims that is later than 40 years.

Can you provide this?

I believe that the churches curent position on the Muslims is a novelty and has changed over time

So you’re a sede vacantist, are you? The Church no longer has the Magisterium and we don’t have to follow her teaching any more?

 

[devotus]

So you’re a sede vacantist, are you? The Church no longer has the Magisterium and we don’t have to follow her teaching any more?

Not at all…

I just think it’s a modern novelty and as such can change over time.

I am still waiting on your Historical docs to prove me wrong….

 

[vern_humphrey]

Not at all…

I just think it’s a modern novelty and as such can change over time.

I am still waiting on your Historical docs to prove me wrong….

And I am waiting for your docs to prove you have the right to override the teaching of the Church.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Arabs are a race of people - Not a religion . The two have nothing to do with each other. Many Arab tribes were also Christian before they were conquered by Muslims. I think Islam in the bible is the “other gospel” that St Paul spoke of ( only with other heresies)

I know very well the Arabs are a race of people. I also know that when God spoke of a “great nation” to Abraham and Jacob, He was NOT talking about a race. So, I am not out of the realm of possibility here.

That is a different can of worms – If a Pastoral council is infallible since no new dogmas were defined in VII. If you have any pre VII pronouncements of Muslim worshiping the same God , I would be very interested in reading them.

Since you believe they worship that same God are Muslims entitled to Salvation simply because they are Muslims? ( Forget about ignorance of the gospel as that pertains to individuals who has not heard the word)

I had no idea if Lumen Gentium was infallible or not, that is why I was asking. It is listed as “dogmatic constitution” but I didn’t know if it was “dogma”.

No, I don’t believe Muslims or anyone is entitled to salvation. Salvation is a free gift of God. There is no entitlement. IMO

 

[devotus]

And I am waiting for your docs to prove you have the right to override the teaching of the Church.

There is no ex cathedra statement declaring it as an essential matter of faith and infallibly.

The church has changed its position over time. No time in her history did the church claim that “The plan of salvation” included those who reject christ. But very much the opposite position.

 

[Jerusha]

But those who accept Jesus as a prophet are half-way there.

I get along better with people with Gnostic leanings-- I have real problems with Arian heresy— those who deny that He also had a human nature.

 

[devotus]

I know very well the Arabs are a race of people. I also know that when God spoke of a “great nation” to Abraham and Jacob, He was NOT talking about a race. So, I am not out of the realm of possibility here.

Yes… A nation is still not a religon or a race. Much of the Middle east ( west of Persia) but including the Holy land was part of the Byzantine empire which was a Christian Nation before the Muslim invasion and was which truly was a “Great Nation” in that lasted from it origin as the Eastern Roman empire till 1453.

I hate to disagree but Islam is a Religion which is definitely not a nation

No, I don’t believe Muslims or anyone is entitled to salvation. Salvation is a free gift of God. There is no entitlement. IMO

Can a Mulsim gain Heaven for Being a Good Mulsim but knowingly reject Christ and the Catholic Church?

Its Gods call from a individual standpoint but is islam a path to salvation?

 

[devotus]

But those who accept Jesus as a prophet are half-way there…

Agreed but half way across the bridge does not get you to the other side. But it is a start as far as having a conversation with a Muslim.Also asking why Jesus was born with out sin and performed miracles when Mohammed never did anything supernatural

From an individual basis we must give them respect and work from common ground but never lose sight that their soul is in danger in their current Islamic path

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Yes… A nation is still not a religon or a race. Much of the Middle east ( west of Persia) but including the Holy land was part of the Byzantine empire which was a Christian Nation before the Muslim invasion and was which truly was a “Great Nation” in that lasted from it origin as the Eastern Roman empire till 1453.

I hate to disagree but Islam is a Religion which is definitely not a nation

Can a Mulsim gain Heaven for Being a Good Mulsim but knowingly reject Christ and the Catholic Church?

Its Gods call from a individual standpoint but is islam a path to salvation?

I will not be the judge or limit God’s mercy. But, in general, I do not believe that anyone, Muslim or not, who knowingly rejects Christ and His Church will be saved. I do not believe Islam is the “path to Salvation”, only Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. But I will leave it to God to judge the individual hearts of those who sincerely seek Him, regardless of their religion.

 

[devotus]

I will not be the judge or limit God’s mercy. But, in general, I do not believe that anyone, Muslim or not, who knowingly rejects Christ and His Church will be saved. I do not believe Islam is the “path to Salvation”, only Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. But I will leave it to God to judge the individual hearts of those who sincerely seek Him, regardless of their religion.

100% agree