Must listen for all Catholics! The Emergent Church

[bengal_fan]

Someone of these people would benefit from reading Orthodoxy.

i am going to pretty much guarantee they have.

tony jones is the national coordinator for emergent village. check him out.

there is no way to define the emergent church. the men and women involved have so many theological starting places it is ridiculous. one of the men associated with the movement from the beginning now speaks out against them (mark driscoll). but he could probably still be classified as in the movement.

the biggest and probably only binding thing in the group is the idea of adapting methods to culture to better relate the story of Christ. they pride themselves on being students of culture, and they are. after that, you get a ton of different theologies. jones himself would probably deny the idea of satisfaction atonement (as put forth by anselm of cantebury). he would probably go along with anselm’s student, peter abelard who was found to have heretical ideas in a trial conducted by bernard of clairvaux. abelard maintained that God did not delight in the sacrifice of His Son or even demand it. it was simply the full expression of His love for us.

you will find those who are pro- gay ordination and pro-choice. you will find those who are against it. one of the calling cards of emergents however is their ability to communicate in non-threatening ways (of course mark driscoll might be an exception to this as he is known by some as “mark the cussing pastor”, but he is still a very effective communicator). they love dallas willard (the divine conspiracy) as he is a big proponent of Christians being “word-smiths”.

i see a lot of assumptions in this thread that simply aren’t true. a lot of generalizing and a lot of people speaking out of a lack of knowledge on the subject. i do not know everything on this subject either but i am trying to study it. i would not place myself within this movement, but i have sat in rooms with some of these men and women and listened to them and debated some. many are extremely well educated (yes, even on the church fathers).

oh, and tony campolo is pro-life and against gay marriage. but he also maintains there are other issues than just those two. his wife is pro gay marriage. he talks about it in his book: speaking my mind. it’s a great read. won’t take you long either, maybe 4 or 5 hours.

all this to say, this is a big, ambiguous movement and we can’t lump every single person who might associate themselves with it into one category. in fact, that is one of the themes of the movement. it is born out of scholasticism and the attempt to look at lots of different sides of an argument and to try to reconcile all of them as saying the same thing.

 

[Fidelis]

The idea that the Pope is trying to set up some one world church is ludicrous on its face. The world is moving away from Catholicism, not the other way around.

I don’t know who sold you that bill of goods, but it is entirely wrong. Catholicism may be moribund in Europe and headed that way in America, but in the world as a whole it’s growth is matched only by various forms of Petecostalism. According to survey after survey, it is the mainstream Protestant religions (Anglicans, Episcopalians, Methodists, Baptists, etc) that are in decline.

Read here for more info:

catholiceducation.org/links/search.cgi

 

[bengal_fan]

I don’t know who sold you that bill of goods, but it is entirely wrong. Catholicism may be moribund in Europe and headed that way in America, but in the world as a whole it’s growth is matched only by various forms of Petecostalism. According to survey after survey, it is the mainstream Protestant religions (Anglicans, Episcopalians, Methodists, Baptists, etc) that are in decline.

Read here for more info:

catholiceducation.org/links/search.cgi

the catholic church is the only mainline denomination that is still growing in american too. just thought i’d point that out.

 

[Kaily]

My boyfriend has doen a lot of research on this emergent church movement and basically those who are behind this movement are pastors who are trying to appeal to the modern culture, they are very questionable on key doctrines that all Christians hold, such as the Trinity and the inerrancy of Scripture. They don’t really touch on issues like homosexuality and have more of a relatavistic mindset regarding religion, basically saying there are many paths one could follow, Christianity isn’t the only way. Some have said we don’t need to speak about homosexuality, they have said its ok to question the doctrine on the Trinity, etc… Basically when you read them or listen to them, you leave saying, what on earth did he just say, they say a lot but at the same time they say nothing…

Its just another postmodern movement. I would be very leary of it, yes they might be catholic friendly but they are definately not Catholic or trying to bring Catholicism into how they worship.

 

[jebeau]

What follows is just my opinion about the protestant post-modern “Emergent Church” movement.

The “Emergent Church” movement seems to be a reaction against the Fundamentalist Evangelical movement. The Fundamentalists are Anti-Catholic/Anti-Liturgical/Anti-Sacramental to be sure, but in common with Rome, they DO preach the reality of the existence of sin.

So at some point, here comes a guy like Brian McLaren and others who are rebelling against the Fundamentalist grain. They don’t like the rigidity of their traditional evangelical protestant churches.

So they incorporate lots of candles, contemplation and other “Catholic” trappings into their worship. This freaks the Fundies out. . . It is also quite a shallow take on Catholic worship because they are not doing these Catholic things to increase their holiness or increase sacramental graces. They are imitating the style of the Mass without really understanding what happens at Mass, i.e, without any Catholic understanding of repentance, contrition or sanctification.

In my view, the Emergents really don’t want to deal with their sin. Sin is simply “imperfection” and in their minds, how can imperfection really keep them from God. . .after all He IS “merciful” right?

So the Emergent Church is sort of “Buffet Catholicism/mysticism Light”. They do contemplative prayer and they might be open to a rosary, but they don’t go to confession and they certainly don’t have the Eucharist. Their movement is empty and dangerous, even though it looks Catholic friendly. The Fundamentalists at least try to follow scripture, even if they are mistrustful of Roman Catholic Tradition.

Most disturbing (and ironic) to me though is the idea that the Fundies blame the Catholics for leading the Emergent Christians away from Bible alone Born Again beliefs. The Fundamentalists see a few candles and some rosary beads and automatically blame the Roman Catholics for what they see as a damnable new movement.

So in my mind, the whole situation is a big giant confusing mess, and the only safe place to be is in unity with Rome.

 

[O.S.Luke]

…contemplative prayer and they might be open to a rosary, but they don’t go to confession and they certainly don’t have the Eucharist.

Not that I am a proponent of the Emerging Church, but recovery of the sacraments is high on the list of the Emergent Church.