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Ignatius
Guest
Yes, I believe all of the binding teachings of the Church in matters of faith and morals.
Must one believe EVERYTHING The Church teaches in order to be a Catholic?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I like your strategy. You spoke for yourself and did not judge.
Alan
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Matt16_18
Guest
I would like to see what the apologists actually wrote. It is quite true that Baptism and Confirmation confer an indelible mark upon the soul.**Catechism of the Catholic Church
1317** Confirmation, like Baptism, imprints a spiritual mark or indelible character on the Christian’s soul; for this reason one can receive this sacrament only once in one’s life.The loss of membership in the Catholic Church does not mean that the indelible mark on the soul that was received from Baptism and Confirmation has been erased.
A Catholic that has lost his membership in the Church can be reconciled once again to the Church through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. A Catholic that has lost his membership in the Church would NOT receive again the Sacraments of Initiation after he has lost his membership in the Church.
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4_marks
Guest
I believe that in order to be a Catholic, you must be baptized a Catholic and/or received into the Church.
We are strongly encouraged to grow in our understanding of what the Church officially proclaims and teaches. To do so, we must rely heavily upon the guidance of others, godparents and parents, religious education instructors. There are many doctrines and dogmas which the Church presents to us that we may be not equipped to intellectually grasp in their fullness. Some are profound mysteries, divinely revealed truths which cannot be exhaustively explained by the human mind. Rather than become intellectually frustrated in our perplexity over such issues, it is wise to accept them in faith.
Perhaps the greatest difficulty I have with the atheist perspective is that it does not affirm the reality of objective faith in human experience. Atheists tend to view faith as subjective and explain it based upon psycho-social developmental experiences, needs and desires.
The existence of objective faith systems, such as Roman Catholicism, in human experience transcend such trite explanations. The presence of such religious realities points to something greater than that which can be explained in mere empirical or scientific terms.
Each of us does have certain preferences, conditioned or otherwise developed, and often our own private judgements and interpretations of theological matters, especially those of profound moral and ethical significance, may be skewed or somewhat obtuse at points. It is greatly important that we turn to and seek to better understand the recognized consensus of the Church in these matters so that our lived experience as Catholics may be consistent with what is declared in faith.
In other words, if the Church says no to artificial birth control, then I, as a Catholic in good standing, say no to artificial birth control, even if I may not understand all of the logistics behind the official Church position. I am, however, obligated to become better informed, and to wholeheartedly submit to the Authority of Holy Mother Church in faith.
Does every Catholic do this? No. Does that make them no longer Catholic? No. Once a Catholic, always a Catholic. Baptism leaves an indelible mark. They may be unorthodox, but they are forever Catholic.
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Matt16_18
Guest
Questions About Membership in the Church
© The American Ecclesiastical Review, The Catholic University of America Press, Washington, D.C.
© The American Ecclesiastical Review, The Catholic University of America Press, Washington, D.C.
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Matt16_18
Guest
4 marks:
OTH, a Catholic that accepts that it is true that practicing artificial contraception is a mortal sin, but then commits the sin anyway, would still be a member of the Catholic Church. That Catholic would be in a state of mortal sin without also being a heretic. In this state, he or she would still be united to the Church in faith and hope, but not in charity.
A Catholic that knows that the Church teaches that practicing artificial contraception is a mortal sin, and then refuses to accept that teaching as being true, would be a heretic. Such a Catholic has lost their membership in the Church. Catholics lose their membership in the Church by obsintate disbelief in her moral doctrines, even if they are not personally committing the mortal sin of practicing artificial contraception.
OTH, a Catholic that accepts that it is true that practicing artificial contraception is a mortal sin, but then commits the sin anyway, would still be a member of the Catholic Church. That Catholic would be in a state of mortal sin without also being a heretic. In this state, he or she would still be united to the Church in faith and hope, but not in charity.
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RichSpidizzy
Guest
I just don’t get why so many people want to become/remain Catholic without believing EVERYTHING the Church teaches.
By not believing in any one teaching, you also reject the Church’s infallible teaching authority. If you reject the Church’s authority, then what assurance do you have that the other teachings of the Church are not false as well?
By not believing in any one teaching, you also reject the Church’s infallible teaching authority. If you reject the Church’s authority, then what assurance do you have that the other teachings of the Church are not false as well?
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Matt16_18
Guest
There is no requirement to send a letter to a bishop repudiating a Church doctrine before one incurs a latae sententiae excommunication for the sin of heresy. Excommunication can take two different forms. A ferendae sententiae excommunication comes after a formal canonical trial, and is often a matter of public record. A latae sententiae excommunication is incurred automatically, under the terms of the Code of Canon Law, as the punishment for certain offenses. In the case of a latae sententiae excommunication, there is no requirement for formal trial or announcement; in fact, the individual brings the punishment upon himself.
Excommunication latae sententiae is the canonical punishment for offenses such as heresy, violation of the seal of confession, or procuring an abortion. Catholics guilty of these offenses are excommunicated automatically, even in cases when Church authorities are unaware of their offense.
Catholic World News
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Matt16_18
Guest
The difference between a Protestant and a Catholic is that the Catholic believes all the infallible teachings of the Catholic Church and a Protestant does not.
I have never met a Protestant the rejects every infallible teaching of Catholic Church, but I have also never met a Protestant that accepts the Catholic Church’s doctrines concerning infallibility.
One can be a Protestant, or one can be a Catholic, but one cannot be a Catholic and not accept every infallible teaching of the Catholic Church.
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4_marks
Guest
Heretics remain Catholics by virtue of a valid baptism. Nothing, not even apostasy or adherence to false teaching, can take this indelible mark of sacrament which they received away. They may have cut themselves off from full communion with Rome, but the Church is always ready to forgive and absolve a repentent sinner.
A validly baptized Catholic person in heresy does not have to get “re-baptized” or go through RCIA. They just need to confess their sins in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and they will be restored to full fellowship/
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Matt16_18
Guest
4 marks:
Do sinners continue to belong to the Church?
Unless one cuts himself of by heresy, apostasy, or excommunication, a Catholic sinner continues to be a member of the Church. Those in mortal sin remain united by faith and hope, but not charity.
Most Reverend Lois Laravoire Morrow, S.T.D., Bishop of Kishnagar; My Catholic Faith, A Manual of Religion, page 135, 1963, My Mission House, Kenosha, Wisconsin
Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.
Mystici Corporis Christi, par. 22
Unrepentant heretics lose their membership in the Catholic Church, but retain the indelible marks on the soul received by the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Ordination.
Do sinners continue to belong to the Church?
Unless one cuts himself of by heresy, apostasy, or excommunication, a Catholic sinner continues to be a member of the Church. Those in mortal sin remain united by faith and hope, but not charity.
Most Reverend Lois Laravoire Morrow, S.T.D., Bishop of Kishnagar; My Catholic Faith, A Manual of Religion, page 135, 1963, My Mission House, Kenosha, Wisconsin
Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.
Mystici Corporis Christi, par. 22
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junglesplash
Guest
a catholic is one who beleives that the church carries the beleifs of jesus and is protected by the holy spirit.
thus the answer must be a yes…even if it inconveniences you
peace
thus the answer must be a yes…even if it inconveniences you
peace
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Matt16_18
Guest
4 marks:
Catholics are free to commit the sins of heresy and schism and become Protestants or even non-Christians. Martin Luther was a baptized Catholic that became a Protestant, Mohammed was validly baptized before he founded the Muslim religion.The baptismal character is the basic force incorporating a man as a member into the true Church of Jesus Christ in this world according to the dispensation of the New Testament. Yet it is quite obvious that not every baptized person is a Catholic. Very definitely the society which is the one and only supernatural kingdom of God in this world is not made up or composed of all baptized persons. The unifying force of the baptismal character can be and is frustrated by public heresy or apostasy, by schism, and by expulsion from the Church. To say or even to insinuate that all baptized people are members of the Church is to deny, at least by implication, the central dogma of ecclesiology, the divinely revealed teaching that tells us that the Roman Catholic Church, the religious society which recognizes and accepts the Bishop of Rome as its visible head, is actually the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.
**Questions About Membership in the Church **
© The American Ecclesiastical Review, The Catholic University of America Press, Washington, D.C.
Most Protestants receive valid baptism, and they are not members of the Catholic Church.
Catholics are free to commit the sins of heresy and schism and become Protestants or even non-Christians. Martin Luther was a baptized Catholic that became a Protestant, Mohammed was validly baptized before he founded the Muslim religion.The baptismal character is the basic force incorporating a man as a member into the true Church of Jesus Christ in this world according to the dispensation of the New Testament. Yet it is quite obvious that not every baptized person is a Catholic. Very definitely the society which is the one and only supernatural kingdom of God in this world is not made up or composed of all baptized persons. The unifying force of the baptismal character can be and is frustrated by public heresy or apostasy, by schism, and by expulsion from the Church. To say or even to insinuate that all baptized people are members of the Church is to deny, at least by implication, the central dogma of ecclesiology, the divinely revealed teaching that tells us that the Roman Catholic Church, the religious society which recognizes and accepts the Bishop of Rome as its visible head, is actually the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.
**Questions About Membership in the Church **
© The American Ecclesiastical Review, The Catholic University of America Press, Washington, D.C.
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Ann_Cheryl
Guest
It was done in the poll **Do you believe everything the Catholic Church teaches? **.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=24488
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tuopaolo
Guest
It’s necessary to believe in all the definitive, irreformable teachings. Other teachings ought to be, as a rule, believed also but it is not absolutely required. For sufficiently good reasons, one may withhold assent from a non-irreformable, non-definitive teaching. But most people who withhold assent would not have sufficiently good reasons and so would be sinning. This is how it is put by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:
The willingness to submit loyally to the teaching of the Magisterium on matters per se* not irreformable must be the rule. It can happen, however, that a theologian may, according to the case, raise questions regarding the timeliness, the form, or even the contents of magisterial interventions. Here the theologian will need, first of all, to assess accurately the authoritativeness of the interventions which becomes clear from the nature of the documents, the insistence with which a teaching is repeated, and the very way in which it is expressed.(24)
Code:
When it comes to the question of interventions in the prudential order, it could happen that some Magisterial documents might not be free from all deficiencies. Bishops and their advisors have not always taken into immediate consideration every aspect or the entire complexity of a question. But it would be contrary to the truth, if, proceeding from some particular cases, one were to conclude that the Church's Magisterium can be habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments, or that it does not enjoy divine assistance in the integral exercise of its mission. In fact, the theologian, who cannot pursue his discipline well without a certain competence in history, is aware of the filtering which occurs with the passage of time. This is not to be understood in the sense of a relativization of the tenets of the faith. The theologian knows that some judgments of the Magisterium could be justified at the time in which they were made, because while the pronouncements contained true assertions and others which were not sure, both types were inextricably connected. Only time has permitted discernment and, after deeper study, the attainment of true doctrinal progress.*
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4_marks
Guest
I had left the Catholic Church a couple of times. I was “re-baptized” three times, once in trinitarian form by immersion at an Assemblies of God, once in the “name of Jesus” only by a Oneness Pentecostal non-denominational at a Baptist church which I immediately renounced for the lack of trinitarian formula, and once in the ocean by a Church of Christ minister in trinitarian form.
Of course, none of these “re-baptisms” were the valid baptism that I received when I was less than one month old in a Roman Catholic Church.
Once I was actively “anti-Catholic.” I had written tracts with a man who left the practice of the Catholic faith and became an evangelical Christian. This man was also friend of anti-Catholic apologists, Bill Jackson and Bart Brewer, and had a “ministry” to “win Catholics” to Christ.
I understood basic Catholic theology, and had been trained in such when I had studied to become a Catholic priest. My rejection of the practice of the Catholic faith was gradual, based upon affect, frustration and scandal. When some priests and fellow seminarians that I had once actually looked up to were revealed to be sexual predators, I was devastated. I lost my trust in Catholicism. I became convinced that what my evangelical Protestant friends had told me was true.
But down deep, I never “renounced” the Catholic faith. I was in heresy and apostasy, and searched high and low for solace in the evangelical Protestant world. I met many wonderful people and had a variety of experiences.
One autumn Sunday morning, I was ready to do what I knew to be right. I found myself driving to the local Catholic Church. I went in and participated in the Mass. That afternoon, I went to the Sacrament of Reconciliation where I was formally reconciled to the Catholic Church.
Some people, like myself, have to learn things the hard way. Don’t give up on those people who “leave” the practice of the Catholic faith. As Francis Thompson wrote, Christ is the “hound of heaven.” The prodigal son always remains a son in his father’s eyes. God can make our crooked paths, straight.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
But if the Church teaches that a Catholic is someone who has had a valid baptism and is accepted into the Church, then it is the teachings of the Church that are inconvenienced by a “yes” answer to this question.
For gosh sakes, does anybody know of an authoritative source for this, since we’ve disregarded the CA apologist’s view on it? I know, I know, half of you think I may have misquoted or maybe only “partially” understood what they say. We can sit here all day and exchange our opposing “feelings” on the issue, but I understood the OP to be asking the question from the standpoint of the Church and not just a warm and fuzzy opinion poll.
Not to say, of course, there is anything wrong with a warm and fuzzy opinion poll.
Alan
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Matt16_18
Guest
It is a rudimentary teaching that Catholics can lose their membership in the Church.Actually only those are to be included as **members of the Church ** who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.
Mystici Corporis Christi, par. 22
Mystici Corporis Christi is saying that Catholics can lose their membership in the church by being excommunicated, or by committing the sins of heresy or apostasy.
(heresy & apostasy = “separate themselves from the unity of the Body”)
(excommunication = “excluded by legitimate authority” )
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Matt16_18
Guest
4 marks:
I can relate to that more than you can know.
If you were a practicing Protestant that never totally renounced the faith, then you were never an apostate. You were no doubt at least a material heretic, if not a formal heretic. Whether you were merely a material heretic acting out of invincible ignorance, or a formal heretic who was acting out of vincible ignorance (or no ignorance at all) is something that only God can rightly judge.
My point is that it is possible to lose one’s membership in the Catholic Church by the sin of heresy. That I am now a practicing Catholic is due to actions of the good shepherd that seeks out the lost sheep.What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, `Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7
Thanks for your testimony.
I can relate to that more than you can know.If you were a practicing Protestant that never totally renounced the faith, then you were never an apostate. You were no doubt at least a material heretic, if not a formal heretic. Whether you were merely a material heretic acting out of invincible ignorance, or a formal heretic who was acting out of vincible ignorance (or no ignorance at all) is something that only God can rightly judge.
Who is giving up? I too left the Catholic Church for a long time – not only was I anti-Catholic, I was anti-Christian during that time – I was truly an apostate.
My point is that it is possible to lose one’s membership in the Catholic Church by the sin of heresy. That I am now a practicing Catholic is due to actions of the good shepherd that seeks out the lost sheep.What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, `Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7
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tuopaolo
Guest
I think the proper technical word to use here would be “difficulty.” CCC 2nd edition:
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Faith is certain. It is more certain than all human knowledge because it is founded on the very word of God who cannot lie. To be sure, revealed truths can seem obscure to human reason and experience, but "the certainty that the divine light gives is greater than that which the light of natural reason gives."31 "Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt."The last quotation is from Newman and the first is from St Thomas Aquinas.
To deliberately doubt something proposed by the Church as revealed by God (ex. Immaculate Conception) and to do so obstinately is a mortal sin of heresy. CCC, 2nd edition, 2089:
"*Heresy *is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same
This would involve a judgment that there is an objective doubt about the truth, not merely a suspension of judgment as to the truth. But in the case where one suspends judgment, one has a duty to make an act of faith and one would sin by failing to make the act of faith. It is also different from withholding assent when one is tempted and hesitates between assent and denial – as that also does not involve an act of judgment that there is an objective doubt. But in such a case withholding assent would be a venial sin.
So asking questions like, “But how could this be so when this is so?” are not at all a doubt! but simply a “difficulty” – if that at all, it might simply be a curiousity as it may have been in the case of Our Lady when She asked, paraphrasing, “How am I to bear a child when I am to be a virgin?” She didn’t understand how this was possible, but she knew that it was.
Likewise, St Anselm – though unlike Our Lady he may have had some involuntary doubts – did well in having “faith seeking understanding.” Asking questions, even in prayer, about the counsels of God.
Then there is us who are far from saints and certainly far from impeccable, and we may have true difficulties accepting something as true but nevertheless we make an act of the intellect by command of the will, assenting to, believing in, the truth which God has revealed.
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