Must one believe EVERYTHING The Church teaches in order to be a Catholic?

[bajolyn]

Can anybody help me find this in the Catechism? It is eluding me at the moment, although I quite vividly remember reading it there.

It’s something pretty close to “I believe and profess all that the Catholic Church believes and teaches.”

 

[bajolyn]

Matt16_18:

The Profession of Faith in the revised Roman Ritual is this:I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.

Okay, I couldn’t find it, but Matt16_18 had this quote listed as the profession of faith in an earlier post.

This is very similar to, if not exactly, what I remember reading quite some time ago.

I have to sign off now, but I’ll check back later.

 

[bajolyn]

bajolyn:

Can anybody help me find this in the Catechism? It is eluding me at the moment, although I quite vividly remember reading it a couple of months ago.

It’s something pretty close to “I believe and profess all that the Catholic Church believes and teaches.”

 

[gelsbern]

Matt16_18:

The Profession of Faith in the revised Roman Ritual is this:
I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.

Which is fine to be called a Roman Catholic, but do you have to believe it all for salvation?

 

[Trelow]

bajolyn:

And yet, how many cradle Catholics do you know who even *know *all the beliefs of the Catholic Church, much less agree with 100 percent of them? Is, then, every Catholic who cannot yet fully understand or perhaps believe with every single thing the Church teaches committing sacrilege by receiving the Eucharist?

I am not advocating that practicing Catholics should not be held to a high standard regarding their faith. What I am saying is that potential converts seem to be held to an even higher standard.

Here’s what I mean. In order to stand up and affirm that you believe and profess everything that the Catholic Church believes and teaches, you would first of all have to *know *everything that the Church believes and teaches. That right there is a tall order. You would have to know this, because according to the Catechism, you can’t just *profess *to believe whatever the Church asks you to believe, but you must actually believe it. So that implies that you would first have to have a vast amount of knowledge.

Secondly, because of the way the profession of faith is worded, you would have to come into the church with 100 percent, absolutely flawlessly perfect belief. You could not be uncertain about a single thing. There would be no room for growth in your beliefs, you would simply have to actually believe (and not simply choose to affirm) *all *that the Church believes. If you did any less, you could not make the required statement in good conscience, as it would not be true.

So a potential convert, then, is required to have perfect knowledge and perfect belief in order to truthfully make a profession of faith and become a part of the Church. I don’t see where that is required of *any *cradle Catholic.

I think of the man who came to Jesus crying, “Lord, I believe, help Thou my unbelief!”? Thankfully, our Lord did not turn him away.

By the way, this is not just a theoretical question for me. On this question hangs my ability or inability to ever become a part of the Catholic Church…

You have to accept to believe everything, if you know what it is yet or not. It’s the Chruch! She does’nt teach error! Never has, never will, never can. That is what you must believe. That the Bride of Chirst is honest and faithful. And so even wihtout knowing everything, you have to know that. And once you know that, everything is cake.

Have no doubt that nothing is required that the Holy Ghost hasn’t stamped yet.

 

[Trelow]

gelsbern:

Which is fine to be called a Roman Catholic, but do you have to believe it all for salvation?

Sooner or later. I reckon it would make it easier to do it before you die, but God is all merciful. But I’m Catholic now, I’ll not take any chances.

 

[alterserver_07]

Yes they must believe in everything the Church teaches. Even if you don’t agree with it, you have to believe. I was told by Bishop Morlino, a very very good bishop got to love him, at a vocations retreat for young people and he said this. He doesn’t agree with everything right away, but he believes it 100% no doubts in his mind. That is why God made the church instead of us. And if any of you know Bishop Morlino of Madison tell him greetings from Williamton. He will get it.

 

[bogeyjlg]

Yes and no.

Not all things binding in faith. Meaning you don’t necessarily have to believe in them. For instance, the four Marian Dogmas: Theotokos, Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, and Blessed Assumption, are a requirement of faith. As for the dormition of Mary you are free to believe that she died or did not die. Of course, it’s not really taught one way or the other by the church.

I probably just confused you even more.

 

[gelsbern]

bogeyjlg:

Yes and no.

Not all things binding in faith. Meaning you don’t necessarily have to believe in them. For instance, the four Marian Dogmas: Theotokos, Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, and Blessed Assumption, are a requirement of faith. As for the dormition of Mary you are free to believe that she died or did not die. Of course, it’s not really taught one way or the other by the church.

I probably just confused you even more.

So for salvation I need to absolutely believe in the Marian doctrines?

 

[Matt16_18]

Asimis:

Lots of different answers here…but I guess it all boils down to yes, we must in fact believe in everything the Catholic Church teaches.

Of course faithful Catholics must accept every infallible teaching of the Catholic Church. Think for a moment what a non-denominational Protestant really is. It is a person that has accepted some of the infallible teachings of the Catholic Church, but not all of her infallible teachings. What real difference is there between a nominal Catholic that picks and chooses which infallible teachings of the Catholic Church that he will accept, and the non-denominational Protestant that does exactly the same thing? There is no difference between the two, other than the building that they may choose to enter on Sunday. The cafeteria Catholic and the non-denominational Protestant are creating their own little personal religions of convenience from a mixture of truths and falsehoods.

In terms of what is believed, I was thinking more along the lines of, do we own for example equal obedience to say…the Immaculate Conception(which is an infallible dogma) than Contraception(which as far as I know is not)? Or are both on equal grounds when it comes to Obedience?

Both the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and the moral dogma that practicing artificial contraception is a mortal sin are infallible teachings of the Catholic Church. Catholics must accept both dogmas without reservation.

 

[Matt16_18]

bajolyn:

… how many cradle Catholics do you know who even *know *all the beliefs of the Catholic Church, much less agree with 100 percent of them? Is, then, every Catholic who cannot yet fully understand or perhaps believe with every single thing the Church teaches committing sacrilege by receiving the Eucharist?

A convert or a cradle Catholic is not required to know every teaching of the Catholic Church, he is only required to believe that what the Catholic Church on matters of faith an morals is not in error. It is more a matter of not rejecting a known teaching that it is a matter of knowing every teaching that exists.

 

[Matt16_18]

bajolyn:

In order to stand up and affirm that you believe and profess everything that the Catholic Church believes and teaches, you would first of all have to *know *everything that the Church believes and teaches.

Not really. All a convert needs to do is accept Christ’s promise that the Gates of Hell would never prevail against the Church that he founded. By having faith in that promise, the convert would have no problem accepting that the God the Holy Spirit will necessarily preserve the Catholic Church from teaching false doctrine.

Secondly, because of the way the profession of faith is worded, you would have to come into the church with 100 percent, absolutely flawlessly perfect belief. You could not be uncertain about a single thing.

Not at all! It is quite impossible to have a mature faith without partaking of the sacramental life of the Church. God will grant the sincere convert the actual graces needed to accept in faith that the Catholic Church cannot teach error in matters of faith and morals.**Catechism of the Catholic Church

Faith and Baptism

1253** Baptism is the sacrament of faith. But faith needs the community of believers. It is only within the faith of the Church that each of the faithful can believe. The faith required for Baptism is not a perfect and mature faith, but a beginning that is called to develop. The catechumen or the godparent is asked: “What do you ask of God’s Church?” The response is: “Faith!”

1254 For all the baptized, children or adults, faith must grow after Baptism …

 

[Matt16_18]

bajolyn:

By the way, this is not just a theoretical question for me. On this question hangs my ability or inability to ever become a part of the Catholic Church…

We tell our candidates in RCIA class to take their Profession of Faith with the utmost seriousness, since it is a vow before man and God when they say the words: “I believe and profess **all ** that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.” All she teaches does not mean everything but her teachings on artificial contraception, or everything but her teaching about the ordination of women, or everything but her teaching on the infallibility of the living Magesterium … Until the candidates can honestly make that vow, they are told that they should stay as inquirers that are working through their issues, and that they are welcome to stay in the RCIA program for as long as that takes. No one should rush into making a Profession of Faith anymore than one should rush into making marriage vows.

As a one of the catechists of our parish’s RCIA program, I struggled with how to answer the questions that you are raising. It does seem at first glance that one would have to KNOW every teaching of the Catholic Church before one could make the Profession of Faith. But such is not the case. What the convert really has to grapple with is the claim of the Catholic Church that she is preserved by the grace of God from teaching erroneously on matters of faith and morals. If one accepts that is true, then one accepts all of her teachings on faith and morals. One is making a profession of faith, not a profession of gnosis.

Before a convert make the Profession of Faith, they are required to believe that certain prayers can change a piece of bread into the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus! If a candidate can profess belief in that infallible teaching, then it is a much lesser act of faith to believe that God would preserve his Church from teaching error on matters of faith and morals.

One only need look at the reality of Protestantism to see that it is not at all illogical or unreasonable to believe that God would have to provide supernatural intervention to keep the church he founded from degenerating into the scandal that is Protestantism. Protestantism is comprised of thousands of bickering and contentious denominations that cannot all agree on one single article of faith. There is no unity of faith in Protestantism as a whole, and scriptures say that we confess one faith, not thousands of conflicting faiths. Surely the doctrinal division in Protestantism cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit. Of all the sects claiming to have preserved the teachings of Christ, the Catholic Church stands alone in never having changed a single doctrine of faith and morals. And she has done that for two thousand years. The catechist can show the convert why the Church’s doctrines concerning infallibility are reasonable, but ultimately, the convert will accept those teachings because he has responded to the actual graces that God has given that allows him to make that leap of faith.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. …

 

[Theodora]

As a Catholic I have no problem in trusting and believing everything the Catholic Church teaches regarding faith and morals. To me it is simple, I believe that Christ instituted a visible church who has been given the authority to teach in His name. Jesus proclaimed it to be indefectible because He will stay/be with her till the end of time.

So, I have no problems in believing all the CC teaches as what is officially declared by her, no matter how hard the teaching is. And my personal experience has proven it to be true. For example, the communion of saints. I don’t know how many times my prayers have been answered by appealing to a saint or to the Saint of all saints: Mary. Wow! How powerful her interecession is!

 

[All4lifetoo]

gelsbern:

So for salvation I need to absolutely believe in the Marian doctrines?

Yes, for salvation you must accept each and every doctrine of the Catholic Church. The doctrines taught by the Catholic Church have been revealed by Christ. When you reject the Catholic Church, you reject Christ. When you reject a single doctrine of the Catholic Church, you reject Christ. The only exception to this rule is if you are invincibly ignorant of the teaching of the Catholic Church or of the authority of the Catholic Church to teach. One who is invincibly ignorant may still be saved. Pay attention to the adverb invincibly. One cannot hold up stubornness or doubt as invincibility.

I hope this clear and direct answer satisfies you and puts to rest your question.

 

[CatholicHoser]

Since noebody really answered my question about what constitutes an infallible moral teaching, and i’m up at 4 a.m., now i’m a little cheesed…

in my view, yes, you have to believe everything about faith. At the core would be the 20 mysteries of the Rosary. Things like that.

I also think you have to believe in the FUNDAMENTALS about what the church teaches about morality. You have to believe the Church teaching on abortion, euthanasia, etc., and things like the 10 commandments and the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.

but, the Church as a human institution has been wrong before and that’s why i don’t think you have to buy every last detail of what the Church teaches to receive the Eucharist or be saved. I have a major problem with following anything like a sheep. evil is spread when people follow blindly to doctrines and are not allowed to have their own thoughts about them. take a look at what happened in Europe in the 1940’s. i know that is a very harsh example but i hope it gets the point across about how we need to be afforded the right to have our own thoughts on the things that are not the fundamentals of the Catholic faith.

the point is, i think (name removed by moderator)ut from churchgoers, within reason, need to be able to express their own thoughts on non-basic tenets.

i can bring several examples to the table of times when the Church was, well sorry, flat out wrong. i say this, and i’m a practicing Catholic.

1. Galileo. I can never get over this. The Church excommunicated Galileo, for, God forbid, teaching the Earth revolved around the Sun. When was poor G let off the hook? to my knowledge, 1992. The Church, as a human institution, was flat out wrong.
2. Usury and the corruption that pervaded the Church during the Renaissance. Wrong!!!
3. Treating people the way the Church did during the Inquisition. Wrongo!!!
4. In our own modern times, I believe, the incredibly soft response against the American sex abuse scandal. The fact Cardinal Law was allowed to say a public memorial Mass for the Pope in Rome. Wrong again!!!

The point is, I love my Catholic faith and I hold my life to the Sacred Mysteries of our Faith and the Chruch’s fundamental teachings on basic morality. However, I believe that we need to be able to act according to our own consciences, or else, great evil, like which occurred during the Renaissance in particular, or even now, may be propagated.

 

[All4lifetoo]

CatholicHoser:

. . . .]
but, the Church as a human institution has been wrong before and that’s why i don’t think you have to buy every last detail of what the Church teaches to receive the Eucharist or be saved.
. . . .]

The Church is NOT a human institution, it is a Divine institution because it is founded and headed by Jesus Christ. The Church has human members but it is not a human institution. One who does not recognize this distinction will never be able to understand the Church or accept her as the authority of God on Earth.

 

[CatholicHoser]

All4lifetoo:

The Church is NOT a human institution, it is a Divine institution because it is founded and headed by Jesus Christ. The Church has human members but it is not a human institution.

That’s kind of what I meant but I didn’t go into that clearly enough. Surely the Church is divine because yes, it was founded by the Lord, Jesus Christ. It is still, of course, guided by Jesus.

However, since Jesus ascended, the Church is run by humans who are guided by Jesus. These humans, unfortunately, have not always heeded the Lord’s perfect guidance and teachings, which, I think, is why some Church leaders have done things that were wrong. We are taught that humans are sinners and that we’re not perfect. Those Church leaders who promoted usury, the uncharitable acts of the Inquisition, those who violated a bond of trust by sexual violation of youth, are no different. They are not perfect.

Now that being said, I don’t want anyone to think I’m a Church-basher. I’m a practicing Catholic and I love the Church.

By pointing out some of it’s human-related errors, it should be incumbent upon me to point out that there are so many wonderful people in the Church and so many wonderful things that the Church has done throughout the ages and today that it would be impossible for me to list even one billionth of them. There is plenty of evidence that the Chruch is indeed an institution of Jesus.

However, we as humans are not perfect, and I accept that it has human-related faults that do need to be dealt with so that we can make the human Church, as guided by the Divine Lord, follow ever closer to that precious Guidance.

 

[Matt16_18]

Catholic Hoser:

Since noebody really answered my question about what constitutes an infallible moral teaching

**Catechism of the Catholic Church

2035 ** The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed.

…the Church as a human institution has been wrong before …

When has the Church ever taught a doctrine about faith or morals that was wrong? This has never happened in two thousand years of Church history. Members of the hierarchy of the Church have indeed done sinful things, but we must never confuse infallibility with impeccability.

…and that’s why i don’t think you have to buy every last detail of what the Church teaches to receive the Eucharist or be saved.

And who gets to decide which moral teachings of the Catholic Church can be blown off? What you are saying is pure Protestantism – pick and choose what YOU think are the “fundamental” doctrines of morality, and then feel free to ignore those moral teaching that you have personally decided aren’t “fundamental”.

A faithful Catholic must accept ALL the moral teachings of the Church.Infallibility and the Church

By the infallibility of the Catholic Church is meant that the Church, by the special assistance of the Holy Spirit, cannot err when it teaches or believes a doctrine of faith or morals.

Christ promised: “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations …. Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you all days, even unto the consummation of the world: ( Matt. 28:30). If Christ is with the Church all days, it cannot err in teaching; it cannot lead men away from God.”Infallibility" is often distorted by the enemies of the Church to mean “impeccability,” and therefore derided. Infallibility means freedom from error, impeccability is freedom from sin.

In an institution established by God for the salvation of men, error in doctrine is unthinkable. …

A doctrine of faith is something we must believe in order to be saved. A doctrine of morals is something we must do in order to be saved.

Most Reverend Lois Laravoire Morrow, S.T.D., Bishop of Kishnagar; My Catholic Faith, A Manual of Religion, page 144-145, 1963, My Mission House, Kenosha, Wisconsin​

However, I believe that we need to be able to act according to our own consciences …

It is true that we must obey our concience, but we must never set our own personal opinions about morality above the teaching authority of the Church. A Catholic has the duty to conform his conscience to the moral teachings of the Church. You are arguing for acceptance of the autonomy of conscience, a belief that the Catholic Church calls “mistaken”. Belief in the autonomy of conscience will inevitably lead to the rejection of the Church’s teaching authority.**Catechism of the Catholic Church

1792** Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

 

[Matt16_18]

If a faithful Catholic is free to reject church doctrine, then what in the world is an unfaithful Catholic?