Must something be illegal for it to be avoided?

[vern_humphrey]

Reading through, I was initially confused that no one seemed to understand.

Maybe I am really of base here, but I believe ‘blue laws’ to be the best example. Where I live, Alcohol cannot be sold on Sunday.

Perhaps others do not have such a problem, but here in ‘the South’ it often seems that local laws have been added to by various fundementalist churches.

A real problem arises with extracting the unnecessary blue laws without degrading the society. While it is reprehensible to legislate morality, it would seem that there are some benefits to it.

Mountain View, Arkansas, calls itself the Folk Music Capitol of the World. We have annual Folk Fests and other events. In the '70s and '80s, it was also the hippy capitol of the world (during festivals.) The county went dry – closed all the liquor stores – and started vigorously enforcing laws governing public drunkeness and drug abuse.

It was absolutely essential that we do this – else we’d have degenerated into a huge open-air drug market.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Reading through, I was initially confused that no one seemed to understand.

Maybe I am really of base here, but I believe ‘blue laws’ to be the best example. Where I live, Alcohol cannot be sold on Sunday.

Perhaps others do not have such a problem, but here in ‘the South’ it often seems that local laws have been added to by various fundementalist churches.

A real problem arises with extracting the unnecessary blue laws without degrading the society. While it is reprehensible to legislate morality, it would seem that there are some benefits to it.

the problem I have with that is it forces the beliefs of one faith on everyone living there. Most of NJ used to have these strange blue laws where you could buy some things but not others so you’d go into the stores and sections would be roped off!

My Dad grew up in a church that forbid card playing, dancing and rock music. If his brethren had their way, all of those things would have been outlawed!

 

[nicolep]

the problem I have with that is it forces the beliefs of one faith on everyone living there. Most of NJ used to have these strange blue laws where you could buy some things but not others so you’d go into the stores and sections would be roped off!

My Dad grew up in a church that forbid card playing, dancing and rock music. If his brethren had their way, all of those things would have been outlawed!

Society forces it’s beliefs on everyone everyday. It’s a fact of life. The majority of us are trying to get things changed in order to benefit society. We have a right and a duty to do this.

God bless,
Nicole

 

[Wirraway]

Concrete example: adultery.

Adultery is a sin. But criminalizing and prosecuting it would result in a completely unacceptable and indefensible degree of government intrusion into the private lives of citizens.

 

[edwest2]

I’m saying that Christians seem to spend a lot of energy working with society and trying to get secular institutions to do their work for them. Think of the 10 Commandments cases alone! Who cares if the 10 Commandments are on the lawn? Can’t we follow them without them being displayed? How about the Nativity cases? Isn’t putting a Nativity on our own lawn enough? Why does it have to be in the city park too? Why do public school children have to sing Christmas carols? If the idea of Christmas carols is that important to you-why aren’t you sending your kids to Catholic schools?

Who cares? When someone in the American Civil Liberties Union woke up one day and noticed that the Ten Commandents were in public places, they had to be removed. Why? Because they said our government was promoting religion. There is a statue of Moses with the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.

When I was growing up, it was OK for there to be a nativity in front of the local City Hall, then the ACLU woke up one day and said, NO! “You must remove it or surround it with secular symbols to remove its religious relevance.”

Pope Benedict stated during his visit to the United States that America needs to return to its Christian roots, which some people will tell you we are not a predominantly Christian nation.

What is wrong with singing Christmas Carols? What is wrong with the word Christmas? It has always existed to celebrate the birth of Christ.

This is a government of the people, for the people and by the people. If we don’t stand up for the unborn, including human embryos, who will? You started life as a human embryo. Scientists can prove that, but a radical bunch of individuals will tell you otherwise. We Christians have science on our side but some person will lie to you and say, “Oh, that’s just religious people talking nonsense.”

And no, laws are agreed upon as being good for society as a whole. Ideally, sin should not be legal, and yes, we can avoid sin. But think about it, if you say certain things are legal, don’t you think it would encourage people to think they’re OK?

This country which was built on religious tolerance is becoming intolerant to religion, especially Christianity, even when we have science and reasonable arguments on our side.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Fitswimmer]

Did you know that the ACLU defended the rights of Christians to protest at a gay rights parade in 2007? Did you know that the ACLU defended the rights of students regarding the scheduling of a state basketball tournament that would have forced them to play games on their Sabbath? Here in my state of NJ, the ACLU defended the rights of a student to sing a Christian song at an after school talent show. This case should be of particular interest to us as Catholics:

The ACLU of Michigan (2005) filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of Joseph Hanas, a Roman Catholic who was punished for not completing a drug rehabilitation program run by a Pentecostal group whose religious beliefs he did not share. Part of the program required reading the Bible for seven hours a day, proclaiming one’s salvation at the altar, and being tested on Pentecostal principles. The staff confiscated Mr. Hanas’s rosary beads and told him Catholicism was witchcraft.
www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/22354prs20051206.html

The ACLU is not against religion. The ACLU is against Federal endorsement of any particular religion, which should also be of interest to us as Catholics as we are still a minority faith in this country. I for one do not want a federal endorsement of evangelical Protestantism and if we went by majority rule that’s exactly what we’d have.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Did you know that the ACLU defended the rights of Christians to protest at a gay rights parade in 2007? Did you know that the ACLU defended the rights of students regarding the scheduling of a state basketball tournament that would have forced them to play games on their Sabbath? Here in my state of NJ, the ACLU defended the rights of a student to sing a Christian song at an after school talent show.

Do you know that the President of the Northwest Arkansas Chapter of the ACLU attacked a columnist (Dana Kelly) for the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette?

Kelly wrote a column that was not flattering to Jesse Jackson and this “defender of civil rights” wrote a long, blistering letter to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette that ended, “Because I am the President of the Northwest Arkansas Chapter of the ACLU, I do not think Dana Kelly should be censored. But the Democrat-Gazette should not subsidize him.”

In other words, don’t censor him,** fire** him!!

 

[Holly3278]

No, but it would still be a good thing if things like pornography, abortion, and other things were illegal.

 

[vern_humphrey]

No, but it would still be a good thing if things like pornography, abortion, and other things were illegal.

Abortion is murder and ought to be treated as such. On the other hand, things that physically harm no one might easily be left to the individual’s conscience.

For example, a person who drinks quietly at home should be left alone. A person who gets drunk and drives – or beats family members – ought to go to jail.

 

[wjp984]

Couldn’t I make the same argument and say, Why do we have commandments or a catechism that tells us things that put us in mortal sin and jeopordizes our souls. Shouldn’t we want to do the right thing and be moral people without fear of Hell? Why do we have the obligation to go to mass? Shouldn’t we just want to go to mass regardless of whether we are told to?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Couldn’t I make the same argument and say, Why do we have commandments or a catechism that tells us things that put us in mortal sin and jeopordizes our souls. Shouldn’t we want to do the right thing and be moral people without fear of Hell? Why do we have the obligation to go to mass? Shouldn’t we just want to go to mass regardless of whether we are told to?

I go to Mass because I want to worship God-not because I’m afraid of going to Hell if I don’t. I want to follow the teachings of the Church, so I do need the Bible and the Catechism to let me know what they are-but again, I’m not following them because I’m afraid of Hell-I’m following them because I love God and I don’t want to disappoint him.