Must we believe in the Toll Houses?

[searchingheart]

Hello - I have seen other threads (now closed) which discuss the teaching on aerial Toll Houses, but hope to learn: must they be believed in by Eastern Catholics? Do you instead accept the doctrine of Purgatory? Any answers will be greatly appreciated, as the Toll-House belief is very troubling to me.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

The Toll-House theory held by some (not all) Eastern Orthodox is hotly debated even in Orthodox circles. I’ve known no Eastern Catholics who hold the theory - although I don’t doubt that there are some out there.

Eastern Catholics, generally, believe in the doctrine of Purgatory. What we don’t really buy into (and what even the Roman Church has rejected) is the Medieval notion that Purgatory is a level of Hell or a sort of temporary Hell.

We simply hold the belief that, for those not sufficiently purified of the passions in this life, there is a purification that happens in the next life. What that purification looks like… That’s God’s business, not ours. Our business is to work actively - in synergy with the gift of the Holy Spirit - to strip ourselves of attachment to anything but God. The rest is up to God.

 

[Vico]

Hello - I have seen other threads (now closed) which discuss the teaching on aerial Toll Houses, but hope to learn: must they be believed in by Eastern Catholics? Do you instead accept the doctrine of Purgatory? Any answers will be greatly appreciated, as the Toll-House belief is very troubling to me.

Toll houses are an allegorical teaching, but there is a Particular Judgment. Purgatory and Indulgences are not opposed by eastern Catholics since they are dogma, but may not be included in catechesis, except for example as below.

Saint Gregory of Nyssa wrote in On the Soul and the Resurrection:

Just as those who refine gold from the dross which it contains not only get this base alloy to melt in the fire, but are obliged to melt the pure gold along with the alloy, and then while this last is being consumed the gold remains, so, while evil is being consumed in the purgatorial fire, the soul that is welded to this evil must inevitably be in the fire too, until the spurious material alloy is consumed and annihilated by this fire. If a clay of the more tenacious kind is deeply plastered round a rope, and then the end of the rope is put through a narrow hole, and then some one on the further side violently pulls it by that end, the result must be that, while the rope itself obeys the force exerted, the clay that has been plastered upon it is scraped off it with this violent pulling and is left outside the hole, and, moreover, is the cause why the rope does not run easily through the passage, but has to undergo a violent tension at the hands of the puller. In such a manner, I think, we may figure to ourselves the agonized struggle of that soul which has wrapped itself up in earthy material passions, when God is drawing it, His own one, to Himself, and the foreign matter, which has somehow grown into its substance, has to be scraped from it by main force, and so occasions it that keen intolerable anguish.

Then it seems, I said, that it is not punishment chiefly and principally that the Deity, as Judge, afflicts sinners with; but He operates, as your argument has shown, only to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2915.htm

Addition on May 28, 2020: The Ukrainian Catholic Catechism, Christ Our Pascha states on Item 250:

In the Church, this healing condition of the dead is referred to as “purgatory” 205.
205 Council of Florence, Bull Laetentur caeli [Let the Heavens Rejoice] (July 6, 1439); See also Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1030.

 

[searchingheart]

Thank you so much for your answer.

As an Orthodox Christian, I was not taught in my formation (many years ago) about the Toll Houses, but did hear them mentioned in hymns. Now, some priests are saying that we must believe in them, and in a literal sense. It is a very frightful thought to have to come face-to-face with a demon upon passage from this world.

I am reading on this subject, and praying about visiting a nearby Catholic parish, which offers the Latin Mass. I do also pray the Rosary, and love many of the post-Schism Western saints.

Again…thank you! May the Lord bless you.

 

[searchingheart]

Thanks so much for sharing that passage, and your insight.

It would seem that as Saint Gregory of Nyssa conveyed, the Particular Judgement should relate to purification by fire, since (I believe) Saint Paul indicated this. Do you know where the idea that fallen angels play a role in our judgement originated? I think there are accounts by saints in both the early East and West of demons attempting to halt a soul’s progress into heaven. How frightening it is that we should have to interact with them in any way.

On this matter, a nineteenth-century Russian Orthodox book, ‘How Our Departed Ones Live: The Experience of the Orthodox Church,’ has been republished recently. It states that while we are on earth, we have the opportunity, by God’s grace, to acknowledge our sins and to repent of them. Following death, however, fallen spirits are used to point out any sins remaining.

Could this be a subject which the Orthodox Church is unable to resolve on its own, in its present situation? It seems so important to have some clarity on whether those of us (who are not saints) will have to pass through the Toll Houses.

I will also check out the link you provided. Have a blessed day!

 

[Zaccheus]

@searchingheart

I’ve never heard of this belief before.
If you mean a belief that we all have to face a demon or demons when we die, then I don’t think there’s any real evidence of such a thing. What purpose would it serve?

 

[anon91549587]

St macarius the great had experiences of this , so did St benedict ( i think ). Isnt that why we pray the end of the hail mary?

 

[Zaccheus]

St macarius the great had experiences of this , so did St benedict ( i think ). Isnt that why we pray the end of the hail mary?

We ask the Blessed Virgin to pray for us, to help us through our deaths. That says nothing one way or the other about the idea of Toll Houses, or of demons having any right to confront us when we die.

 

[searchingheart]

Thanks for responding.

Yes, there are many accounts, especially in the East, of saints or Church Fathers who had visions of, or taught, the aerial Toll Houses and experiences of the dying with fallen angels. Saint Gregory of Nyssa, I believe, is one who is quoted in support of this form of judgement. Yet, as the poster shared above, he also seemed to teach of a judgement that is more like Purgatory, in the Catholic belief.

 

[anon91549587]

Opps sorry not refering to toll houses but demons at the death bed. I must have misprayed the hail mary . “At the hour of our death,amen.”

 

[searchingheart]

I have read that the teaching is mainly based upon the experiences of Christian ascetics, such as the Desert Fathers and Mothers. We know that the evil one and his angels are present on the earth and in the air, but are finally able to see their forms when we also are in spirit (after death). The knowledge that we will have to see and face the demons, after our death, is meant to frighten us into forsaking sin and the passions.

What concerns me is that the Bible - Saint Paul, I think - states that Christians one day will judge fallen angels, but not they us. Paul did, though, write of what seems like Purgatory.

Thanks for responding.

 

[searchingheart]

We certainly do need her prayers!

 

[Zaccheus]

Opps sorry not refering to toll houses but demons at the death bed. I must have misprayed the hail mary . “At the hour of our death,amen.”

Pray for us, now and at the hour of our death.

Her intercession is very powerful at any time.

 

[Vico]

Thanks so much for sharing that passage, and your insight.

It would seem that as Saint Gregory of Nyssa conveyed, the Particular Judgement should relate to purification by fire, since (I believe) Saint Paul indicated this. Do you know where the idea that fallen angels play a role in our judgement originated? I think there are accounts by saints in both the early East and West of demons attempting to halt a soul’s progress into heaven. How frightening it is that we should have to interact with them in any way.

On this matter, a nineteenth-century Russian Orthodox book, ‘How Our Departed Ones Live: The Experience of the Orthodox Church,’ has been republished recently. It states that while we are on earth, we have the opportunity, by God’s grace, to acknowledge our sins and to repent of them. Following death, however, fallen spirits are used to point out any sins remaining.

Could this be a subject which the Orthodox Church is unable to resolve on its own, in its present situation? It seems so important to have some clarity on whether those of us (who are not saints) will have to pass through the Toll Houses.

I will also check out the link you provided. Have a blessed day!

Perhaps Toll Houses are a private revelation, so a person is not really bound by faith to those.

The definition of saint that is commonly used are the persons now in heavenly glory, however it could be extended to included those that shall be in heavenly glory after the General Judgement. The souls in purgatory state can intercede for the persons on earth.

Addition on May 28, 2020: The Ukrainian Catholic Catechism, Christ Our Pascha states on Item 250:

In the Church, this healing condition of the dead is referred to as “purgatory” 205.
205 Council of Florence, Bull Laetentur caeli [Let the Heavens Rejoice] (July 6, 1439); See also Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1030.

 

[searchingheart]

Yes, the visions of the demons and Toll Houses do seem like private revelations, perhaps with no way for the Orthodox Church to declare that we must believe the teaching.

Thank you for referencing the Council of Florence (had forgotten of it). I’ll try to read what was declared there between both the Western and Eastern Church.

 

[Patjoe]

First I have heard of toll houses. I do ask, every day, that Our Blessed Mother be with me at the hour of my death; but I do not stop there. I ask my dear guardian angel, all God’s holy angels and saints, and my deceased family members in particular to be with me when I am dying.

I see the active work of the evil one(s) more and more these days. It is indeed frightening to think of them present during our life here on earth. Being able to see them as well does bring one to think twice about going astray. As if we needed more than the realization that sin offends the One Who is Goodness and Love!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

If “toll houses” are just another way of describing purgatory, then I have no problem with it — when all is said and done, we know little about purgatory other than the fact it exists. I don’t think there are many people who are ready to enter heaven the very second after they die — I know I’m certainly not. Speaking only for myself, I have to doubt that even a plenary indulgence, or the Apostolic Pardon, could do that for me. At the very least, I have to think that it will be at least as painful and terrifying as what a baby experiences when it is born. I have to doubt that it is going to be the smooth, joyous passing-over that the evangelicals sing about — “I’m gonna shake the Master’s hand when I go up to Gloryland”. Or it may be. Hope so. I recently read the obituary of a friend of my parents, and when they described all the celebrities he’d met whose hands he was going to shake in heaven (they all got canonized, apparently) it sounded like the receiving line at the Grand Ole Opry!

The only problem that I have with “toll houses” is that it sounds like — and someone correct me if I’m wrong — there is the possibility that the demons will, indeed, “win the fight”, and drag the departed soul down into hell. I may be reading it wrong. In the Catholic dogma of purgatory, there is absolutely no possibility that the departed soul will not be saved. I have to think that will be a great joy of purgatory. I may, like Lucia of Fatima’s friend, have to stay in purgatory until the end of the world, but if I can make it that far, my salvation will be assured. I can’t imagine how wonderful that would be.

 

[searchingheart]

Purgatory seems like a very painful, but safe place.

Based on the vision of Saint Theodora, the book I mentioned above states that there are twenty “Toll Booths.” The soul is helped on its progress through them by the prayers and services of the Church and loved ones. On the third day, the soul is taken to heaven, but I am uncertain if the demons are able to pull it away with them. What I do know is that I could never make it through those Toll Houses without the merits of Christ.

A lesson for me is that I have been more afraid of seeing the demons than of facing my sins.

 

[searchingheart]

Amen! to all that you expressed.

One’s guardian angel is said to accompany the soul as it passes through the Toll Houses, as well as advocating for and defending it against the demons. The way the fallen angels accuse the departed soul of its sins reminds me of the situation in heaven relating to Job.

 

[Genesis315]

Thank you for referencing the Council of Florence (had forgotten of it). I’ll try to read what was declared there between both the Western and Eastern Church.

Here is what the Council of Florence said on the topic:

Also, if truly penitent people die in the love of God before they have made satisfaction for acts and omissions by worthy fruits of repentance, their souls are cleansed after death by cleansing pains; and the suffrages of the living faithful avail them in giving relief from such pains, that is, sacrifices of masses, prayers, almsgiving and other acts of devotion which have been customarily performed by some of the faithful for others of the faithful in accordance with the church’s ordinances.

While not really relevant for Catholics, the pan-Orthodox Council of Jerusalem in 1672 summed up the Eastern Orthodox doctrine at the time like this (which seems compatible with the doctrine expressed at Florence):

And the souls of those involved in mortal sins, who have not departed in despair but while still living in the body, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance, have repented — by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and finally by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church has from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — [their souls] depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from there, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed; especially the unbloody Sacrifice benefiting the most; which each offers particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offers daily for all alike.

continued…