Must we believe this?

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Annie_B

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MUST we believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity to be in accordance with the teachings of the RCC? If so, where is this taught? If not, why is it such a huge issue for some people?
Thanks so much -
Annie
 
Absolutely must be believed - the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is a teaching dating back to quite early in the Church.

It was taught by the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 and reaffirmed by the Fourth Lateran Council in 649. Since taught by those two councils, (remembering that Conciliar teaching is binding) and reaffirmed by consensus fidelium and the Universal Ordinary Magisterium, it is certainly dogma.

A more detailed explanation can be found at campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq18.html
 
Wow - what a shock that this is actually a church teaching…Thank you both for clearing this up for me.

Annie
 
Annie_B said:
Wow - what a shock that this is actually a church teaching…Thank you both for clearing this up for me.

Annie
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Why is this a shock to you? It’s not a secret that the Church has always taught this. We refer to Mary as ever-virgin in the several places in the Mass.

The Confiteor and Eucharistic Prayer I refer to her as “ever-virgin” while Eucharistic Prayers II, III, and IV refer to her as Mary, the virgin Mother of God.
 
Annie_B said:
Wow - what a shock that this is actually a church teaching…Thank you both for clearing this up for me.
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Remember that the fact that this is a Church teaching means two things. One, that it is true, and two, that God felt it was important that we know it to be true. Both points are worth contemplating.
 
I think one (not the only) reasion some people tend to be a little confused/un-sure on what we must believe concerning Our Blessed Mother, is that sometimes there is a tendency to blurr Marian dogma and Marian Devotions.
 
adam_in_ohio said:
I think one (not the only) reasion some people tend to be a little confused/un-sure on what we must believe concerning Our Blessed Mother, is that sometimes there is a tendency to blurr Marian dogma and Marian Devotions.
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Surely the fact that ‘ever-virgin’ is said in every Mass can’t simply be put down to blurring between dogma and devotion.

The Mass permits of no such blurring. Do the prayers of the Mass ever refer to, for example, the Rosary? Or Our Lady’s apparitions to various saints over the centuries? How often does Mass even include a Hail Mary, the words of which are mostly biblical in origin? I can recall very few occasions in my 20-some years of Mass attendance.

Sounds like someone just hasn’t been paying attention to what is being said!
 
1ke said:
Why is this a shock to you? It’s not a secret that the Church has always taught this. We refer to Mary as ever-virgin in the several places in the Mass.

The Confiteor and Eucharistic Prayer I refer to her as “ever-virgin” while Eucharistic Prayers II, III, and IV refer to her as Mary, the virgin Mother of God.
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Things usually shock someone when they did not know before. I did not know that this was an OFFICIAL church teaching…

Annie
 
LilyM said:
Surely the fact that ‘ever-virgin’ is said in every Mass can’t simply be put down to blurring between dogma and devotion.

The Mass permits of no such blurring. Do the prayers of the Mass ever refer to, for example, the Rosary? Or Our Lady’s apparitions to various saints over the centuries? How often does Mass even include a Hail Mary, the words of which are mostly biblical in origin? I can recall very few occasions in my 20-some years of Mass attendance.

Sounds like someone just hasn’t been paying attention to what is being said!
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We may listen, but we may not always understand. That is why we come to CA to help clarify things. And, we may pay attention to what is being said and at the same time not understand the true meaning.

Annie
 
Annie_B said:
Things usually shock someone when they did not know before. I did not know that this was an OFFICIAL church teaching…

Annie
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I guess I do not apply the term “shocking” to new things I learn unless I am disturbed by that information.

The fact that Mary is “ever-virgin” is not “shocking” to me at all.
 
1ke said:
I guess I do not apply the term “shocking” to new things I learn unless I am disturbed by that information.

The fact that Mary is “ever-virgin” is not “shocking” to me at all.
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I was always led to believe that Joseph and Mary did not have marital relations until AFTER the birth of Jesus, with thi information being backed up by the following Bible verse. Correct or not, this is what I have believed all my life, which is why it was a shock to me…
Annie

Matthew 1:25 (Darby Translation)
Darby Translation (DARBY)

** 25and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus**
 
1ke said:
I guess I do not apply the term “shocking” to new things I learn unless I am disturbed by that information.

The fact that Mary is “ever-virgin” is not “shocking” to me at all.
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By the way, not all shocks in my life have been “disturbing”…I am sorry if all yours have.

Annie
 
Annie_B said:
I was always led to believe that Joseph and Mary did not have marital relations until AFTER the birth of Jesus, with thi information being backed up by the following Bible verse. Correct or not, this is what I have believed all my life, which is why it was a shock to me…
Annie

Matthew 1:25 (Darby Translation)
Darby Translation (DARBY)

** 25and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus**
Click to expand...
From the NAB

Mt-1:25 – He had no relations with her until she bore a son, [footnote #12] and he named him Jesus.

Footnote #12:
12 [25] Until she bore a son: the evangelist is concerned to emphasize that Joseph was not responsible for the conception of Jesus. The Greek word translated “until” does not imply normal marital conduct after Jesus’ birth, nor does it exclude it.
 
Hi, Annie.

Even though it is an official Church teaching, you are correct; many don’t know or don’t realize what exactly is taught about Mary and her perpetual virginity.

This thought always helps to put that fact into perspective and to make sense… No human being can ever be worthy of occupying the same womb as Our Lord and Savior. Therefore, there could be no other children after Jesus.
 
CatsAndDogs said:
From the NAB

Mt-1:25 – He had no relations with her until she bore a son, [footnote #12] and he named him Jesus.

Footnote #12:
12 [25] Until she bore a son: the evangelist is concerned to emphasize that Joseph was not responsible for the conception of Jesus. The Greek word translated “until” does not imply normal marital conduct after Jesus’ birth, nor does it exclude it.
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Nor does it exclude it…EXACTLY! So, how does the RCC come up with the infallible teacjing that Mary was “ever” “always” etc. a virgin? To me, if she had marital realtions with Joseph after the birth od Jesus does not change my faith in Jesus.

Another thought, does not the Catholic church teach that a marriage that is not consumated is not a valid marriage?? An un-consumated marriage is grounds for an annulment…

Annie
 
Annie_B said:
Nor does it exclude it…EXACTLY! So, how does the RCC come up with the infallible teacjing that Mary was “ever” “always” etc. a virgin? To me, if she had marital realtions with Joseph after the birth od Jesus does not change my faith in Jesus.

Another thought, does not the Catholic church teach that a marriage that is not consumated is not a valid marriage?? An un-consumated marriage is grounds for an annulment…

Annie
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I was always under the impression that some Jewish girls consecrated themselves to God and took vows of chastity even when they were to be married. I always thought Mary was a consecrated virgin even before she was visited by Gabriel and moved in with Joseph. I know I’ve heard this before, but I don’t know where?? Maybe someone can shed some light.
 
RosaryFan said:
Hi, Annie.

Even though it is an official Church teaching, you are correct; many don’t know or don’t realize what exactly is taught about Mary and her perpetual virginity.

This thought always helps to put that fact into perspective and to make sense… No human being can ever be worthy of occupying the same womb as Our Lord and Savior. Therefore, there could be no other children after Jesus.
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Hi RosaryFan -
I am not denying the idea that there could never be any children born to Mary after Jesus. However, as we all know (or should know), marital relations do not ALWAYS produce a child! I had one child and never more - that does not mean I never had realtions with my husband again. Apparently it was in God’s plan that I have only one. Could this not have been true for Mary too? (I am not comparing myself to Mary…just pointing out that one child does not automatilcally exclude normal marital relations…)

Annie
 
RosaryFan said:
I was always under the impression that some Jewish girls consecrated themselves to God and took vows of chastity even when they were to be married. I always thought Mary was a consecrated virgin even before she was visited by Gabriel and moved in with Joseph. I know I’ve heard this before, but I don’t know where?? Maybe someone can shed some light.
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Now, THAT argument would make sense to me.🙂 But still, what about the unconsumated marriage/valid marriage issue? Why would -should - could anyone get married when they have no intention of consumating the marriage? This would seem to go against Church teachings…

Annie
 
Annie_B said:
I was always led to believe that Joseph and Mary did not have marital relations until AFTER the birth of Jesus, with thi information being backed up by the following Bible verse. Correct or not, this is what I have believed all my life, which is why it was a shock to me…
Annie

Matthew 1:25 (Darby Translation)
Darby Translation (DARBY)

25and knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus
Click to expand...
DARBY translation? How did you come to be reading that?
 
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