mustum

[BillGoss]

My name is Bill Goss and my site for anyone interested is a complete site devoted to Jesus Christ and what he has done in my life (www.billgoss7.com)

I am a recovering alcoholic with 40+ years of continuous sobriety–thank you, Jesus.

I am 73 years old and work out 3 times a week with my wife (25 years together and she is my best friend)–I do 180+ pushups a week.

We have been to Israel three times–pictures at the site www.billgoss7.com.

We do our daily readings together and nightly readings.

I am an ex-pilot–loved to fly.

I have the pension of a Lt.-colonel.

At the present time, I am quite upset about the situation with mustum in the Catholic Church.

I received mustum in Florida for years before moving to Indiana. When we moved to the diocese of Lafayette we were told that I couldn’t get mustum in Indiana . After writing the Holy See 3 times the bishop was replaced by a new bishop who at first seemed acceptable to the idea of mustum, but I had to drive 80 miles round trip each weekend to get the mustum. We drove this distance every week for 18 months. When my wife and I started to do reading at the mass it was made perfectly clear to us that it was OK to get mustum but don’t try to do anything else. Needless to say we stopped going to that “church” if you want to call it a church.

We are going to try to get something done around Indianapolis–if anyone knows what we could do to make things manageable, it would be appreciated–if not, in a short while we will probably become Lutheran (we are really sick of this situation).

wgoss@indy.rr.com

 

[BillGoss]

Yeah, it seems like everywhere you go they have a different policy about mustum.

 

[Brendan]

Are you a celiac at all? If not, why is reception of Holy Communion in the species of bread insufficient?

 

[PacoG]

I was under the impression that the indult for the use of mustum was for alcoholic priests as the priest has to receive under both species. The laity doesn’t have to receive under both species.

 

[TomS]

God Bless you, Bill! I have 24 yrs of sobriety and being sober helped me increase my faith and love of the Catholic Church.

 

[Corki]

My name is Bill Goss and my site for anyone interested is a complete site devoted to Jesus Christ and what he has done in my life (www.billgoss7.com)

I am a recovering alcoholic with 40+ years of continuous sobriety–thank you, Jesus.

I am 73 years old and work out 3 times a week with my wife (25 years together and she is my best friend)–I do 180+ pushups a week.

We have been to Israel three times–pictures at the site www.billgoss7.com.

We do our daily readings together and nightly readings.

I am an ex-pilot–loved to fly.

I have the pension of a Lt.-colonel.

At the present time, I am quite upset about the situation with mustum in the Catholic Church.

I received mustum in Florida for years before moving to Indiana. When we moved to the diocese of Lafayette we were told that I couldn’t get mustum in Indiana . After writing the Holy See 3 times the bishop was replaced by a new bishop who at first seemed acceptable to the idea of mustum, but I had to drive 80 miles round trip each weekend to get the mustum. We drove this distance every week for 18 months. When my wife and I started to do reading at the mass it was made perfectly clear to us that it was OK to get mustum but don’t try to do anything else. Needless to say we stopped going to that “church” if you want to call it a church.

We are going to try to get something done around Indianapolis–if anyone knows what we could do to make things manageable, it would be appreciated–if not, in a short while we will probably become Lutheran (we are really sick of this situation).

wgoss@indy.rr.com

Are you a celiac at all? If not, why is reception of Holy Communion in the species of bread insufficient?

This is the question. It complicates the preparation (and the purification) for the priest to be preparing mustum and wine for Communion. That being said, most priests are willing to add these steps for a person who has severe gluten issues. Otherwise, the simplest solution is to receive under the species of bread.

I was under the impression that the indult for the use of mustum was for alcoholic priests as the priest has to receive under both species. The laity doesn’t have to receive under both species.

This used to be the case. However, with the dramatic increase in celiac disease, the rule has been relaxed to allow it to be given to the laity who cannot receive Communion under the species of bread and who have a reason (such as the OP) to not receive Communion under the species of regular wine.

 

[angell1]

i am sorry about your situation.

please do not give up on the church though because of behaviour of certain individuals.

i will pray for you.

 

[Brendan]

This is the question. It complicates the preparation (and the purification) for the priest to be preparing mustum and wine for Communion. That being said, most priests are willing to add these steps for a person who has severe gluten issues. Otherwise, the simplest solution is to receive under the species of bread. .

That is correct. There are actually rather defined rules where and by whom mustum can be used. Since the species of bread contains the exact same Substance of Christ, fully and completely, there is no theological necessity for a layperson to require mustum

If Communion under both species is desired, the preferred solution is communion by intinction.

As such, it’s use by the laity is reserved, on a case by case basis, to the Holy See.

II. Concerning permission to use ‘mustum’:

A. The preferred solution continues to be , or in concelebration under the species of bread alone.

B. Nevertheless, the permission to use can be granted by ordinaries to priests affected by alcoholism or other conditions which prevent the ingestion of even the smallest quantity of alcohol, after presentation of a medical certificate.

C. By is understood fresh juice from grapes or juice preserved by suspending its fermentation (by means of freezing or other methods which do not alter its nature).

D. In general, those who have received permission to use are prohibited from presiding at concelebrated Masses. There may be some exceptions however: in the case of a bishop or superior general; or, with prior approval of the ordinary, at the celebration of the anniversary of priestly ordination or other similar occasions. In these cases the one who presides is to communicate under both the species of bread and that of , while for the other concelebrants a chalice shall be provided in which normal wine is to be consecrated.

E. In the very rare instances of laypersons requesting this permission, recourse must be made to the Holy See.

…

With warm regards and best wishes, I am

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMUSTM.HTM

 

[BillGoss]

You sound like you have all knowledge on this subject, maybe even all knowledge on everything–even if you are a priest you are arguing against what Cardinal Ratzinger said in his encyclical about glutton and mustum.

And it looks like you are even arguing against what Jesus says in John 6: Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no life in you."

To be so sure of yourself is a mistake–obviously this subject has had a lot of differences down the years.

Also, the church has had contracts with producers of wine for years and a change to mustum could be very exasperating to the Church.

 

[dans0622]

That is correct. There are actually rather defined rules where and by whom mustum can be used. Since the species of bread contains the exact same Substance of Christ, fully and completely, there is no theological necessity for a layperson to require mustum

If Communion under both species is desired, the preferred solution is communion by intinction.

As such, it’s use by the laity is reserved, on a case by case basis, to the Holy See.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMUSTM.HTM

Hello,

That document has been superseded by this one: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030724_pane-senza-glutine_en.html

The pertinent point is that this particular question/permission is now within the competence of an ordinary (see “common norms” #1).

Dan

 

[Brendan]

You sound like you have all knowledge on this subject, maybe even all knowledge on everything–even if you are a priest you are arguing against what Cardinal Ratzinger said in his encyclical about glutton and mustum.

I am not a priest, though I have had both philosophy and seminary training. I was in the Diaconate program for several years, but left when we began to the expect our 5th child, I continued that leave while our 6th child came, and do so know. I did complete the academic requirements for the Diaconate as well as a BA in Philosophy at the seminary. What remains is for the children to be of sufficient age that my wife no longer requires my assistance at Mass, and even then it is assuming that God does not gift us with additional children.

In addition, what I quoted above COMES from Cardinal Ratzinger, so could you please clarify how I am arguing against him?

I will concede that the Church does allow for the decision on the use of mustim to be granted by the local Ordinary, but that in no way places a requirement to do so.

And it looks like you are even arguing against what Jesus says in John 6: Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no life in you."

The command is fulfilled in the reception of a single species, as we receive the Living Christ. His Blood is not separated from Him. So when we receive the entirety of Christ, we receive His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. There is no other way to receive Christ.

We certainly do not feel the sensory experience of that consumption. For example, our eyes do not see a Risen Lord, nor do our hands feel human flesh, nor do our arms feel the weight of a full grown human. Those are sensory properties that are hidden from us, though the Reality exists. We do consume Christ, His Flesh (all of it) and His Blood (all of it).

That is the core of the Church’s teaching on the Doctrine of Transubstantiation.

What you seem to be asking is to experience the sensory effects of fluid, but that too is hidden, but the Reality is there. If you receive the species of Bread alone, you both eat AND drink.

The command of Christ is fulfilled. The Church cannot teach anything to the contrary.

To be so sure of yourself is a mistake–obviously this subject has had a lot of differences down the years.

I am sure of the teachings of the Church and that it teaches correctly. Nothing more and nothing less.

Also, the church has had contracts with producers of wine for years and a change to mustum could be very exasperating to the Church.

Yet the Church often chooses not to provide chalice to the laity, so any claim that the Church is beholden to wine producers would be in error.

 

[dans0622]

You sound like you have all knowledge on this subject, maybe even all knowledge on everything–even if you are a priest you are arguing against what Cardinal Ratzinger said in his encyclical about glutton and mustum.

And it looks like you are even arguing against what Jesus says in John 6: Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no life in you."

To be so sure of yourself is a mistake–obviously this subject has had a lot of differences down the years.

Also, the church has had contracts with producers of wine for years and a change to mustum could be very exasperating to the Church.

Hello,

I must take this to mean that you can, in fact, receive the Host (which does “contain” the Body and Blood of the Lord.) Consequently, it is not surprising that at least some ordinaries would not facilitate the usage of mustum in your case.

Dan

 

[Corki]

You sound like you have all knowledge on this subject, maybe even all knowledge on everything–even if you are a priest you are arguing against what Cardinal Ratzinger said in his encyclical about glutton and mustum.

And it looks like you are even arguing against what Jesus says in John 6: Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you have no life in you."

To be so sure of yourself is a mistake–obviously this subject has had a lot of differences down the years.

I think you misunderstood what was written here.

No one is arguing against Cardinal Ratzinger or Scripture. What was pointed out was that, without a compounding issue of gluten sensitivity, the more common remedy for an alcoholic is to receive Communion under one species. You did not mention anything about gluten in your original post.

Also, the church has had contracts with producers of wine for years and a change to mustum could be very exasperating to the Church.

Are you lobbying for the Church to “change to mustem” as the normative way to distribute Communion? That’s not going to happen. The number of Catholics who need access to Communion confected from mustum, due to BOTH issues with alcohol AND gluten is very small. Wine “contracts” wouldn’t be affected in the slightest. (besides most parishes buy their wine independently, not through a “Church contract”)

 

[Brendan]

Hello,

That document has been superseded by this one: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030724_pane-senza-glutine_en.html

The pertinent point is that this particular question/permission is now within the competence of an ordinary (see “common norms” #1).

Dan

Thank you for the update

 

[Elizium23]

Hello,

I must take this to mean that you can, in fact, receive the Host (which does “contain” the Body and Blood of the Lord.) Consequently, it is not surprising that at least some ordinaries would not facilitate the usage of mustum in your case.

Dan

The Host does not “contain” the Body and Blood of the Lord, it is the Body and Blood of the Lord.

 

[Gorgias]

We are going to try to get something done around Indianapolis–if anyone knows what we could do to make things manageable, it would be appreciated–if not, in a short while we will probably become Lutheran (we are really sick of this situation).

Bill,

This last statement of yours is really confusing to me. You seem to be a Catholic who is really intent on fully receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist. Yet, your ‘solution’ to this situation is to go to the Lutheran church… where you can be certain that you will never receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ (since the priesthood in that denomination is not a valid priesthood, and therefore, is unable to confect the Eucharist)…