mutual funds

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louie12

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i would like to invest in vanguard mutual fund, symbol vfinx, is there a moral problem? i am not sure in what companies this fund has invested but i know it is a good fund.

thankyou
 
What a great question! I had never considered this before, but given that my husband and I plan to do some mutual fund investing before long, this would be important to find out. I would imagine that you could find out which companies are in the fund. After that I would try to learn which companies have a hand in sinful industries, such as abortion, pornography, homosexual acitvism, etc. I’ve often been shocked to learn that a company I was using was giving its support to one of these three businesses. I know there are watchdog groups out there that do nothing but research a company’s contributions, so you’ll probably need to link up to one of those.

I don’t know what the Church’s official position would be, but I would personally have a very difficult time investing in a company, such as eBay for example, that heavily supports Planned Parenthood, and thereby funds abortions. I know the Church does not call for any boycotts of these companies as far as purchasing goes, however it seems that investing in them might be crossing a line. I suspect you are thinking in similar terms, or else you wouldn’t have started this thread. 😉

Curious to know what you find out…

mary
 
Investors are owners. They have the right to challenge the charitable practices of the company they own.
 
louie12 said:
i would like to invest in vanguard mutual fund, symbol vfinx, is there a moral problem? i am not sure in what companies this fund has invested but i know it is a good fund.

thankyou
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I would ask for a detailed prospectus, on it would have contact numbers you can ask what they invest in. Then you can determine the human rights record of companies and decide to invest in the mutual fund or not. The fund managers/salespeople will answer as you are a prospective client.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Actually, these are a bad investment. They use a very narrow selection method. They encourage workplace discrimination with their anti-same-gender policies.

Catholic Teachings are more than just abortion, porn, and homosexuality, but that is all these funds focus on. I would stay clear of them.
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I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying their selection method affects the return on investment?

How do they encourage workplace discrimination?

Are you saying there are other moral issues, in addition to the three you mentioned, that you would like to see reports on?
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure said:
I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying their selection method affects the return on investment?

How do they encourage workplace discrimination?

Are you saying there are other moral issues, in addition to the three you mentioned, that you would like to see reports on?
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Yes, they encourage companies to not have same-gender partner benefits. That drives away good workers and is inconsistent with Catholic Teachings (respect for the person).

Worker pay, union support, environmentalism, worker rights, work environment are just a few others that need to be looked at.

Do they pay their workers fairly? Are they a “right to work” workplace (they should not be), are they environmentally responsible, do they treat their workers fairly (domestically and any overseas outsourcing)? Do they allow workers to organize and unionize for a better quality of life?

Those are all constant with Catholic Teachings. it is very hard to quantify the other two reasons in the Ave Maria funds (abortion support and porn). Most companies will never have anything to do with those selections in their business models.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Investors are owners. They have the right to challenge the charitable practices of the company they own.
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Except under the law I believe it is the mutual fund *companies *who own the stock, not those who invest in the mutual funds themselves. The individual investors have an interest in the fund companies, but aren’t considered stockholders in the companies in which the funds invest.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Yes, they encourage companies to not have same-gender partner benefits. That drives away good workers and is inconsistent with Catholic Teachings (respect for the person).

Worker pay, union support, environmentalism, worker rights, work environment are just a few others that need to be looked at.

Do they pay their workers fairly? Are they a “right to work” workplace (they should not be), are they environmentally responsible, do they treat their workers fairly (domestically and any overseas outsourcing)? Do they allow workers to organize and unionize for a better quality of life?

Those are all constant with Catholic Teachings. it is very hard to quantify the other two reasons in the Ave Maria funds (abortion support and porn). Most companies will never have anything to do with those selections in their business models.
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Not really - If you want the best bang for your buck invest in pornography. Catholics don’t for good reason. We don’t support the sin. Same sex benefits are not consistent with Catholic teachings.

If you want to invest with a clear conscience then invest in Ave Maria Funds.
 
ThuribleGuy45 said:
Except under the law I believe it is the mutual fund *companies *who own the stock, not those who invest in the mutual funds themselves. The individual investors have an interest in the fund companies, but aren’t considered stockholders in the companies in which the funds invest.
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Mutual fund shareholders are owners of the fund – and can determine how the fund invests their money.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Mutual fund shareholders are owners of the fund – and can determine how the fund invests their money.
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You can also raise the level of the ocean by pouring a teaspoon of water into it. Mutual funds have from tens of millions to literally billions of dollars they manage. Someone with $100,000 in a mutual fund will have 1% in a fund that invests $10,000,00, if one can even find such a fund to invest in.

To presume that any one shareholder will have meaningful (name removed by moderator)ut into the types of shares that the fund invests in is perhaps to stretch the definition of “meaningful”. That is not to suggest that one should not voice one’s opinion; only that one should maintain some sense of perspective when doing so.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Yes, they encourage companies to not have same-gender partner benefits. That drives away good workers and is inconsistent with Catholic Teachings (respect for the person).

Worker pay, union support, environmentalism, worker rights, work environment are just a few others that need to be looked at.

Do they pay their workers fairly? Are they a “right to work” workplace (they should not be), are they environmentally responsible, do they treat their workers fairly (domestically and any overseas outsourcing)? Do they allow workers to organize and unionize for a better quality of life?

Those are all constant with Catholic Teachings. it is very hard to quantify the other two reasons in the Ave Maria funds (abortion support and porn). Most companies will never have anything to do with those selections in their business models.
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I’m afraid I disagree with nearly everything you’ve posted, but I don’t wish to get into a debate on the subjects at this time. However, this lets me know in a roundabout way that I would probably do well to invest in the Ave Maria mutual funds! 😛

Blessings,

mary
 
otjm said:
You can also raise the level of the ocean by pouring a teaspoon of water into it. Mutual funds have from tens of millions to literally billions of dollars they manage. Someone with $100,000 in a mutual fund will have 1% in a fund that invests $10,000,00, if one can even find such a fund to invest in.

To presume that any one shareholder will have meaningful (name removed by moderator)ut into the types of shares that the fund invests in is perhaps to stretch the definition of “meaningful”. That is not to suggest that one should not voice one’s opinion; only that one should maintain some sense of perspective when doing so.
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You can also raise the level of the ocean by pouring a teaspoon of water into it. This country has tens of millions of registered voters. Someone who votes in an election will have 0.0000001% in an election where 100,000,000 can vote – if he even bothers to go to the polls.

To presume that any one voter will have meaningful (name removed by moderator)ut into the policies that run this country in is perhaps to stretch the definition of “meaningful”. That is not to suggest that one should not voice one’s opinion; only that one should maintain some sense of perspective when doing so
 
if i put my money in the bank, how do i know what the bank is investing in,it could be in companies who contradict catholic teaching.
 
louie12 said:
if i put my money in the bank, how do i know what the bank is investing in,it could be in companies who contradict catholic teaching.
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Bingo!

Scruplousity, over preoccupation with minute issues, is a sin, not a virtue.
 
louie12 said:
i would like to invest in vanguard mutual fund, symbol vfinx, is there a moral problem? i am not sure in what companies this fund has invested but i know it is a good fund.

thankyou
Click to expand...
I only “dabbled” a little in stocks several years ago - just before the rollercoaster ride began! I don’t know about holdings within 401(k)'s - there you don’t have a choice - you’re either in or you’re not. But I used to look at portfolio funds (?correct reference word?) making my choices based on those that didn’t include pharmaceutical companies, for example. Tough to do nowadays - but you have to consider that many, if not most, pharm. companies could have their hand in “the pill” or other contraceptives - which I didn’t want my money in. Ditto, the health industry, which might fund abortions. Really narrows it down, doesn’t it?
 
Conservative said:
I only “dabbled” a little in stocks several years ago - just before the rollercoaster ride began! I don’t know about holdings within 401(k)'s - there you don’t have a choice - you’re either in or you’re not. But I used to look at portfolio funds (?correct reference word?) making my choices based on those that didn’t include pharmaceutical companies, for example. Tough to do nowadays - but you have to consider that many, if not most, pharm. companies could have their hand in “the pill” or other contraceptives - which I didn’t want my money in. Ditto, the health industry, which might fund abortions. Really narrows it down, doesn’t it?
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The “health industry” is not all involved in abortion, nor even mostly, or even largely. Hospitals may be; but someone who manufactures medical equipment is generally not. The fact that a given piece of medical equipment may be used in an abortion is not reason to avoid the company unless you know that it is designed specifically for that purpose. And there is precious little that is designed specifically for that purpose. And as to pharmacy issues, the same applies; there is a tremendous amount of pharmacy that has little or nothing to do with the Pill.

As to your 401K, whether you like him or not, Jim Cramer has some interesting things to say about them, and I have yet to see them refuted. 1) If there is any way at all to avoid it, do not invest in company stock in your 401k (can you say Enron?). 2) If the company matches, by all means contribute up to the amount to obtain the match - it is free money. Never walk away from free money. 3) Once you have met the match, invest in your own IRA. You have way more choices than you will in the 401K, which is restricted to a very narrow set of funds. 4) Most mutual funds do not even keep up with what is generally the standard - the S & P 500. An ETF will come closesest, but get one that matches the S & P 500 and stay out of those that match a segment of the market, as all segments of the market have up and down patterns - unless you have enough market savvy to be able to stay up with the trends, and move out of one fund into another with correct timing.

If you have little or no market savvy, get his most recent book; it is worth the price, and it should be read three or four times. Then 6 months or a year later, read again.
 
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