Mutual masturbation

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FelixBlue

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Is it a sin for a husband and wife to, as one priest so described it many years ago, “mutually masturbate”? That is, is it a sin for a husband and a wife (who have four children) to bring each other to an orgasm without the man entering the woman? If it is a sin, is it a mortal sin? If it is a mortal (or venial) sin, do the husband and wife place themselves in an occasion of sin when they have decided to “space their children”, and yet sleep together, knowing they may not “engage”? Should the husband sleep on the floor?
 
Yes, it’s a mortal sin. Orgasm must take place, at least for the man, where it can lend itself to procreation if that is God’s will.
 
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FelixBlue:
Is it a sin for a husband and wife to, as one priest so described it many years ago, “mutually masturbate”? That is, is it a sin for a husband and a wife (who have four children) to bring each other to an orgasm without the man entering the woman? If it is a sin, is it a mortal sin? If it is a mortal (or venial) sin, do the husband and wife place themselves in an occasion of sin when they have decided to “space their children”, and yet sleep together, knowing they may not “engage”? Should the husband sleep on the floor?
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The “sleeping together” part is metaphorical. There is no sin in a husband and wife sharing a bed while abstaining from sex. Stimulation to climax is permissable on the wife if, and only if, it is a prelude to actual intercourse, such as in the case where she cannot reach orgasm that way. Sorry. I know it’s tough. I mean, I reeeally know it’s tough, but through God’s grace and perserverance, it becomes less tough.
 
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awfulthings9:
Stimulation to climax is permissable on the wife if, and only if, it is a prelude to actual intercourse, such as in the case where she cannot reach orgasm that way.
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It is also permissible as a postlude if she did not otherwise finish.
 
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FelixBlue:
If it is a mortal … sin, do the husband and wife place themselves in an occasion of sin when they have decided to “space their children”, and yet sleep together, knowing they may not “engage”? Should the husband sleep on the floor?
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There are other good comments above, I will only add this: if sharing a bed is a “near occasion of sin” for a husband and wife, then it would suggest that their physical relationship is less than healthy. Specifically, they should be able to be somewhat physically intimate with each other–say, cuddling in bed–without it needing to carry all the way through to sex.
 
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FelixBlue:
Is it a sin for a husband and wife to, as one priest so described it many years ago, “mutually masturbate”? That is, is it a sin for a husband and a wife (who have four children) to bring each other to an orgasm without the man entering the woman?
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It is a disordered act, and if done with full knowledge and free will it is a sin.
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FelixBlue:
If it is a sin, is it a mortal sin?
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It is grave matter. Culpability and sinfulness depend upon the knowledge and free will of the person committing the act.
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FelixBlue:
If it is a mortal (or venial) sin, do the husband and wife place themselves in an occasion of sin when they have decided to “space their children”, and yet sleep together, knowing they may not “engage”? Should the husband sleep on the floor?
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No, there is no sin in sleeping in the same bed as your spouse if you are not engaging in intercourse.
 
Here’s a question about masturbation within a marriage. What if:

Either the husband or wife require (or like) some hand stimulation before the conjugal act, are open to children, but don’t actually end up having intercourse (for any of a variety of reasons, including the wife falling asleep :-). If there is the intent of intercourse, perhaps even just a weak possibility, but it doesn’t actually happen, then is mutual masturbation in that case a sin?

And if it is a sin, is the gravity of it lessened at all by other factors, which could include discomfort by one of the spouses from the actual act— due to physical problems or just lack of practice. I think I read somewhere that a broader spectrum of sexual acts are permissable as long as they lead to or follow intercourse. If this is true, is there a time limit on these activities, for example, could they be permissable the night before a morning where the “marital act” is likely to happen?

I am not trying to be legalistic here, just wondering in which cases I need to rush out to Confession, and where I might be a safe zone.

Thoughts please?
 
Hugh_Millity said:
Here’s a question about masturbation within a marriage. What if:

Either the husband or wife require (or like) some hand stimulation before the conjugal act, are open to children, but don’t actually end up having intercourse (for any of a variety of reasons, including the wife falling asleep :-). If there is the intent of intercourse, perhaps even just a weak possibility, but it doesn’t actually happen, then is mutual masturbation in that case a sin?

And if it is a sin, is the gravity of it lessened at all by other factors, which could include discomfort by one of the spouses from the actual act— due to physical problems or just lack of practice. I think I read somewhere that a broader spectrum of sexual acts are permissable as long as they lead to or follow intercourse. If this is true, is there a time limit on these activities, for example, could they be permissable the night before a morning where the “marital act” is likely to happen?

I am not trying to be legalistic here, just wondering in which cases I need to rush out to Confession, and where I might be a safe zone.

Thoughts please?
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If the intent was to have foreplay leading to marital relations ending inside the wife, but somehow for X reason it got interrupted and ending inside the wife didn’t happen there would be no sin involve. Think about it. If your intent was to do the right, but unforeseen circumstances prevented that how can there be a sin? For there to be mortal sin you must be fully willing to go into the disordered action with the will to purposefully to do wrong.

A sinful action would be if the husband and/or wife decided that just pleasure thier selves with out having any act end inside the wife or engage in foreplay without the intention of having the act finish inside the wife.
 
mumto5 said:
Yes, it’s a mortal sin. Orgasm must take place, at least for the man, where it can lend itself to procreation if that is God’s will.
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You do not know that.

It is taught as a disordered act and a sin.

Whether it is mortal or not depends on the level of culpability which depends on the state of mind at the time and which can really only be properly discerned by the penitent with the aid of his or her confessor or spiritual director. Go back and read your CCC.
 
Can I just get this straight…you guys really believe that if my wife performs oral sex on me resulting in orgasm, and I know the church’s stance on this, and I don’t feel bad for it in the least, you truly believe that I will go to hell, despite loving God and trying to be a good and moral person?
 
prettylarge said:
Can I just get this straight…you guys really believe that if my wife performs oral sex on me resulting in orgasm, and I know the church’s stance on this, and I don’t feel bad for it in the least, you truly believe that I will go to hell, despite loving God and trying to be a good and moral person?
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It seems to meet the three conditions for mortal sin.
 
prettylarge said:
Can I just get this straight…you guys really believe that if my wife performs oral sex on me resulting in orgasm, and I know the church’s stance on this, and I don’t feel bad for it in the least, you truly believe that I will go to hell, despite loving God and trying to be a good and moral person?
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JMJ
Sin isn’t determined by how you feel.

If you *know *X is a sin - regardless of whether or not you **believe **it is a sin - if you *know *the matter is serious - regardless of whether or not you **believe **it is serious - and you do it of your own free will, you are turning your back on God and so yes, a person who does that will go to Hell unless they repent and have the intention of never doing it again.
 
Lady_Kikyo said:
JMJ
Sin isn’t determined by how you feel.

If you *know *X is a sin - regardless of whether or not you **believe **it is a sin - if you *know *the matter is serious - regardless of whether or not you **believe **it is serious - and you do it of your own free will, you are turning your back on God and so yes, a person who does that will go to Hell unless they repent and have the intention of never doing it again.
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You have to realize, that if I don’t believe it is a sin, how could I KNOW it is a sin. If I believed it was a sin, I still wouldn’t “know” it was a sin. I know what the church thinks about it (though I am pretty sure if I asked my priest this question he wouldn’t agree with you) but I don’t agree with what you guys are saying here.
 
Lady_Kikyo said:
JMJ

Do you know how good it feels to hit someone who ticks you off?

Your argument doesn’t stand.
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I know, the argument wasn’t meant to be serious. But seriously, how is oral sex not an act of love from one spouse to the other? How is an act of love, in a loving monogamous relationship, sinful?
 
prettylarge said:
You have to realize, that if I don’t believe it is a sin, how could I KNOW it is a sin. If I believed it was a sin, I still wouldn’t “know” it was a sin. I know what the church thinks about it (though I am pretty sure if I asked my priest this question he wouldn’t agree with you) but I don’t agree with what you guys are saying here.
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JMJ

Who cares what your priest says, if he opposes the Church. I know it is illegal to jaywalk, but I don’t believe jaywalking is wrong. I know it is illegal to drive over the speed limit, but I don’t believe it is wrong. I’m still accountable legally, regardless of my personal feelings. You don’t have to agree with us, and you don’t have to agree with God. He gave you free will, and you can use it however you wish. But if you don’t live the way He wants you to live, or at least sincerely strive to live that way, you will not be with in Heaven. We don’t earn our way into Heaven as you seem to be suggesting. Pax.
 
prettylarge said:
Can I just get this straight…you guys really believe that if my wife performs oral sex on me resulting in orgasm, and I know the church’s stance on this, and I don’t feel bad for it in the least, you truly believe that I will go to hell, despite loving God and trying to be a good and moral person?
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I can’t say whether you’ll go to hell or not. Hell is a not a fun place and it’s not temporary. I leave that decision up to God where you go. 🙂

I can say, however, that if you acknowlege the Catholic Church, but simply trust your own moral stance on a grave issue such as masturbation and continue to engage in such acks, you are commiting something that is grave matter and it will be a mortal sin if you have full knowlege of it.

You need to understand that root of sex is to be open life and giving when it comes to how we use our sexuality. If one of those is not present(openess to life and having the intent to love and giving) we are not fulfilling the will of God when it comes to our sexuality.
 
Lady_Kikyo said:
JMJ

Who cares what your priest says, if he opposes the Church. I know it is illegal to jaywalk, but I don’t believe jaywalking is wrong. I know it is illegal to drive over the speed limit, but I don’t believe it is wrong. I’m still accountable legally, regardless of my personal feelings. You don’t have to agree with us, and you don’t have to agree with God. He gave you free will, and you can use it however you wish. But if you don’t live the way He wants you to live, or at least sincerely strive to live that way, you will not be with in Heaven. We don’t earn our way into Heaven as you seem to be suggesting. Pax.
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A non argument- if accepted that the CCC was a declaration of God’s will, he wouldn’t be disagreeing.
 
Lady_Kikyo said:
JMJ

Who cares what your priest says, if he opposes the Church. I know it is illegal to jaywalk, but I don’t believe jaywalking is wrong. I know it is illegal to drive over the speed limit, but I don’t believe it is wrong. I’m still accountable legally, regardless of my personal feelings. You don’t have to agree with us, and you don’t have to agree with God. He gave you free will, and you can use it however you wish. But if you don’t live the way He wants you to live, or at least sincerely strive to live that way, you will not be with in Heaven. We don’t earn our way into Heaven as you seem to be suggesting. Pax.
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What if Catholicism is the wrong religion? What if you will not be in heaven because you do not believe in Shiva? Or what if you go to hell because you don’t pray towards mecca? Because your belief that the Catholic Church promotes the right ethical system is not held by most of the world…and frankly, it doesn’t seem more valid than a lot of other ethical systems around the world either.
 
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