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TedDC
Guest
Go right ahead - you won’t go to hell for doing it (nor will you get a very good sandwich).
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tjm190
Guest
That would cause permanent damage to your CD player and you would get no sandwich.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
To clarify this, I am not the one making these “presumptions,” but rather the Holy Catholic and Apostolic church that was founded by Jesus Christ himself is…I don’t say these things by MY authority.
It’s much different from using something for its primary function, but changing the function altogether. Semen isn’t meant to be digested. It’s meant to be given to the woman at the chance of creating life. Sex is the physical act of love. It is love in action. And the result of spousal love is LIFE GIVING just as Christ’s love for us is life giving. How ir oral sex life giving love?
Again let me say, that the church HAS NOT forbidden oral sex as part of foreplay, so long as ejaculation doesn’t occur. Going into my personal life both DH and I do enjoy oral stimulation. WE DO NOT, however, let it end that way. I mean, why would we? To us it’s the same as ditching the banquet to fill up on candy!
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TedDC
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That’s a pretty legalistic way of dancing around the obvious contradiction in Church teaching. But anyway, I’ll play along and ask the next logical question: what is the purpose of the lungs? To take in smoke? I don’t think so.
So, why isn’t smoking a “gravely disordered” use of the lungs? Not only is it clearly outside their intended purpose but, unlike oral sex, it causes demonstrable damage to the body.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
One should probably point out that for many women out there oral sex causes oral infections. So yes, oral sex does do damage to the body. Just thought I’d point that out.
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kage_ar
Guest
You know, I am a Christian. For me, because God said so is good enough. 
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tjm190
Guest
[sarcasm]As opposed to vaginal intercourse, with which there are no associated infections.[/sarcasm]
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tjm190
Guest
…and when was this?You know, I am a Christian. For me, because God said so is good enough.
Possible misinterpretation- since you said Christian rather than Catholic it seems you’re claiming that the “God said so” statement is backed by something outside the CCC,
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TedDC
Guest
Yes, of course oral sex with an infected partner can cause infection - just as vaginal sex with an infected partner can cause infection. Or kissing, sharing a cup, or shaking hands for that matter. Infection isn’t inherent in any of those acts - it’s a side effect when they’re done in the wrong circumstances.
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kage_ar
Guest
Hair split much? I am a Bible beleiving, pope following, pentecostal, Latin loving, incense buring, Catholic Christian. God said so, God was VERY clear on what he thought of masturbation - and like it or not, bring the male to orgasm using anything but a vagina is a form of masturbation.
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TedDC
Guest
That’s an honest, straightforward answer. I don’t agree, but I respect it.You know, I am a Christian. For me, because God said so is good enough.
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tjm190
Guest
As I said, possible misinterpretation.
A-Generally, masturbation refers to bringing oneself to orgasm. Other definitions include any sexual stimulation, but this would include normal intercourse.
B- When did God say masturbation was wrong?
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
Maybe I should clarify here…
Oral infection is NOT referring to STIs. ORAL INFECTION refers to instances where a woman taking semen into her mouth causes canker sores and other issues.
I do need to again point out that you are fighting against something that the church has been against since its start, and frankly I find it hard to believe that you know more than a 2,000 year old establishment comprised of men who have been charged BY CHRIST to lead the body of believers and have devoted their whole lives to the study of morals and scripture.
I am also noticing that the examples you are giving to show the lack of harm are purposely downplayed. The statement Kage and I are making are showing that it is utterly changing the function of sex. You are saying is a different use of the mouth. This would be true if we were talking about oral stimulation as a part of foreplay, rather than ejaculation in the mouth. You keep consistently missing this point and downplaying the examples.
Oral infection is NOT referring to STIs. ORAL INFECTION refers to instances where a woman taking semen into her mouth causes canker sores and other issues.
I do need to again point out that you are fighting against something that the church has been against since its start, and frankly I find it hard to believe that you know more than a 2,000 year old establishment comprised of men who have been charged BY CHRIST to lead the body of believers and have devoted their whole lives to the study of morals and scripture.
I am also noticing that the examples you are giving to show the lack of harm are purposely downplayed. The statement Kage and I are making are showing that it is utterly changing the function of sex. You are saying is a different use of the mouth. This would be true if we were talking about oral stimulation as a part of foreplay, rather than ejaculation in the mouth. You keep consistently missing this point and downplaying the examples.
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Lady_Kikyo
Guest
JMJ
It is.
Book of Genesis, the story of Onan. God slew him for wasting his seed.
The Church never deviated from this teaching.
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kage_ar
Guest
Ask Onan.
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tjm190
Guest
Again though, sex can cause problems in all situations. In fact, so can most things.
Appeal to authority? That’ll never do…
The point you seem to be making is that it’s a natural law violation to use bodily systems for things they do not appear to be intended for, correct?
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
The point we are making is that it is using something for something is shouldn’t ever be used for. As we point out earlier: trying to use your CD player to grill a sandwich, or using your heart to filter your bloodstream.
We are saying it is a grave sin when done with full knowledge and consent because it is disodering and abusing the gift of sex as God created it.
And we know this because the AUTHORITY has claimed it. God is the authority, and GOD gave the church the RIGHT to make these claims. This is what we, as catholics, believe. And given that you call yourself a catholic, I am hazy on why you think the authority of the Catholic church means nothing…
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stringbeanduck
Guest
No. masturbation is the deliberate stimulation of one’s genitals in order seek pleasure for one’s self. Unless you are refering to mutual masturbation which still is requried to end inside the wife.
The idea of the story of Onan to show that God hates when we use our sexual facilities outside thier intended purpose. That purpose being “the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved” according to the CCC.
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tjm190
Guest
Well let’s see-
Onan was given a command. He could either fulfill that command or not. If he did, he would gain the benefits associated with sex. If he failed to fulfill the command, he would receive a punishment associated with failing to fulfill the command. Onan was a devious guy, so he devised a plan to avoid the punishment, while still gaining the reward. God did not like this and lightning-bolted him.
The fact that he used a primitive birth control method to get around his obligation is not a referendum on birth control. And birth control is not masturbation.
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OraLabora
Guest
I think that’s a very simplistic answer to a complex issue of biblical exegesis.
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