Mutual Submission

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Patrick7

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Hello again,

What is Mutual Submission and how is it supposed to be practised?

If any of you have browsed through my post you will find that I am in alittle bit of hot water with my wife at the moment. (please look at my previous thread Am I being unreasonable to my wife?)

I have been reading a lot of Mutual Submission and how I can be a little more attentive to my wives needs and submit to her as well. I am not all perfect that’s why I am looking for the best way to make her happy, even if she is in the wrong.

Thanks
 
I think, ideally, a husband will always put his wife’s needs and wants first, and his wife will always put her husband’s needs and wants first. This is hard to do when only half of the equation is willing to submit. You cannot change your wife. You can pray for her and demonstrate submission. The most important thing you need to do is be the spiritual head of your household and lead your wife in prayer- maybe just a morning offering and prayer before dinner to start. It would be great if you could say the rosary together. A submissive spirit comes out of love and obedience to God. Draw your wife closer to Jesus through Mary and they will soften her heart.
 
I haven’t read anything specifically on the topic of “Mutual Submission”… but here are my thoughts…

I get the impression that there are a lot of “ME vs YOU” issues going on within marriages… and I guess that’s really foreign to me.
I see marriage in the true sense of “the two become one”… there is NO compromise (one wins while the other looses)… it’s a total mutal decision. “The marriage” makes the decisions.

Nothing should be done “because I think it’s best”… everything should be “because WE think it’s best”…
 
Patrick,
I read your other thread also.

I like that you appear to want to learn. Impressive. If so, then open your mind and heed what others are suggesting if in line with church teaching. Your opinions and ideas sound strong and sound like they leave little compromising room for her.

You do no one any good if you hear only those voices that are in agreement with yours.

If you do want to improve, then there are several wonderful suggestions provided in the other thread.
 
Mutual submission means looking out for the other person, putting their needs and desires before our own and they do the same. So in effect, it means doing what is best for both. If you are used to feeling that you need to be ‘right’ or that all decisions have a ‘his’ and a ‘hers’ answer, this will be difficult. But, what you are looking for is a third way–God’s way. So in small issues it may be a taking turns kind of thing–this Friday we go to the movie wife likes, next Friday we go to the movie husband likes. In larger issues it may be a compromise or entirely different solution–in the above example, you decide to do something etirely different from going to the movies at all. Each couple needs to come up with their own creative solutions. I will be praying for you
 
Katie1723 said:
Blaming her are you? Why might it not be you who is wrong?

Kathy
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Thats the whole idea katie. I am not the ultimate authority and I am not perfect. I am not sure who is right but I am willing to yield and take into account her feelings.🙂

I am not blaming anyone for anything.
 
Patrick7 said:
Hello again,

What is Mutual Submission and how is it supposed to be practised?

If any of you have browsed through my post you will find that I am in alittle bit of hot water with my wife at the moment. (please look at my previous thread Am I being unreasonable to my wife?)

I have been reading a lot of Mutual Submission and how I can be a little more attentive to my wives needs and submit to her as well. I am not all perfect that’s why I am looking for the best way to make her happy, even if she is in the wrong.

Thanks
Click to expand...
From the glossary in Christopher West’s Theology of the Body for Beginners:

Mutual submission: the Apostle Paul makes use of the langauge of “submission” common in his day, but he exhorts spouses to a revolutionary understanding of it. Submission in Christian marriage is mutual and modeled not according to lust and domination, but according to the image of Christ and his Church.

Reverence for Christ: Spouses must submit to one another “out of reverence for Christ.” This is nothing other than a spiritually mature form of the mutual attraction of the sexes. The degree that we experience the redemption of sexual desire, the beauty of the oposite sex elicits not lust, but a deep awe and respect.

Headship: According to the “head and body” analogy employed by St. Paul, the husband is the head and the wife the body. The husband’s headship calls him not to domination and authoritarian control, but to be the first to serve, to lay down his life for his bride (and children) in imitation of Christ.
 
Em_in_FL said:
I haven’t read anything specifically on the topic of “Mutual Submission”… but here are my thoughts…

I get the impression that there are a lot of “ME vs YOU” issues going on within marriages… and I guess that’s really foreign to me.
I see marriage in the true sense of “the two become one”… there is NO compromise (one wins while the other looses)… it’s a total mutal decision. “The marriage” makes the decisions.

Nothing should be done “because I think it’s best”… everything should be “because WE think it’s best”…
Click to expand...
thats true there are big power struggles going on and no one wants to be under anyone.
 
Do you think this might help? Mutual submission, dying to self…two sides of the same coin of marriage, really.
DYING TO SELF

When you are forgotten, or neglected, or purposely set at naught, and you don’t sting and hurt with the insult or the oversight, but your heart is happy, being counted worthy to suffer for Christ.

THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When your good is evil spoken of, when your wishes are crossed, your advice disregarded, your opinions ridiculed, and you refuse to let anger rise in your heart, or even defend yourself, but take in all in patient, loving silence.

THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you lovingly and patiently bear any disorder, any irregularity, any impunctuality, or any annoyance; when you stand face-to- face with waste, folly, extravagance, spiritual insensibility-and endure it as Jesus endured.

THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you are content with any food, any offering, any climate, any society, any raiment, any interruption by the will of God.

THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you never care to refer to yourself in conversation, or to record your own good works, or itch after commendations, when you can truly love to be unknown.

THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you can see your brother prosper and have his needs met and can honestly rejoice with him in spirit and feel no envy, nor question God, while your own needs are far greater and in desperate circumstances.

THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you can receive correction and reproof from one of less stature than yourself and can humbly submit inwardly as well as outwardly, finding no rebellion or resentment rising up within your heart.

THAT IS DYING TO SELF

Are you dead yet? In these last days, the Spirit would bring us to the cross.

“That I may know Him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.”
Click to expand...
 
Hi Patrick,
I read your other thread too.

Why can’t you see what you are doing? I’m with Katie on this thing. You are still saying that she is wrong and you are right. When you made the first post here, you confirmed it to me.

Flip the coin. Your wife works and you don’t. She has the money control and you don’t. She goes to work and you clean the house.

Do you really call her and let her know where you are going so that she isn’t worried… or could you possibly be “Checking up on her”?

You remind me way too much of someone I was once with.

I fear that if you don’t change your way of thinking… your marriage may not make it. You might have the control for a little while… then the bird is gonna want out of that cage.

I’m going to say the Divine Mercy for you now.
 
.

I’m going to say the Divine Mercy for you now.

And there in could come a good bit of the strenght to submit …instead of focusing on all the weaknesses of the other ( and what a great job the accuser , the enemy can do in this area !) , being able to see it all in light of The Infinite Merits …and the Love of The Father , for the other …for oneself …that the focus shifts …to the sacredness …of each …

As members of the Mystical Body , and partakers in The Priesthood , those words can echo - ’ treat him (her) as sacred , for I , The Lord who anointed him ( her) am Sacred '…all through His Merits …

All Praise and honor to Him !
 
I think your original question was what does this mean and how do we live it. Its my understanding that mutual submission as developed by John Paul and expanded on by Christopher West is not about domination. It is analogous to Christ and the Church.

Christ had a mission. His was to follow the will of the Father. Remember his words in the garden, “not my will be done but yours.” He is constantly emptying himself, Phil 2:6-12. (read this) and many examples of his statements in scripture that he came to do the will of His Father. the Father’s will was for him to die on the cross. To redeem men and women. To bring us back into the family of God that sin took away from us. How does the Father respond, “thsi is my beloved son, listen to him.” “I am well pleased.” So we see the father pouring himself into the son.

Part of that will was the creation of the Bride or the Church. What is the mission of the Church? The mission of the church is under that of the the mission of Christ. One could say the the church’s mission is “sub” to Christ’s mission.

Like Christ and the Church, Men have a mission. Their wives have a mission to support the mission of men. Its not a different mission but one of support. Like the Church’s mission is a submission to Christ’s. Men are called to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. True he died for her (the church) but that;‘s not all he did. He nurtured her, sent the Holy Spirit, taught her, healed, shared the Word (himself), and in doing so reveals the Father. Wives’ missions are sub to husbands just as the Church’s mission is to (sub) mission to Christ. All these missions are mutually submissive to the Father’s will and to each others. Each has its place in salvation.

We enter into this process of emptying ourselves mutually for one another and are filled with Holy Spirit.

Meditate on these meanings. JPII 's encycical on women is another good source to learn who wives are and how husbands are to see them. ITs not a question of right and wrong but one of humility, charity, compassion, 1 cor 13:4-7. Each, hus. and wife have a mutual Christian duty out of love for Christ. your Self giving. Her self giving. These are stand as our duty regardless of whether they are reciprocated. ITs part of how Christ loved us first while we were still in sin. So we love each other even when the other doesnt deserve it.

Start here and see how the spirit leads you. God bless.
 
You do realize the the original poster (OP) posted this question in Oct. 2007 and the OP hasn’t been active since Feb. 2008. Please do not resurrect dead threads.
 
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