My attempt to defend Christianity from Atheist (replies greatly appriciated)

[lemondiesel]

Okay, I must start off by saying; myself personally I believe science more than anything. I look at God as Einstein looked at physics (extremely fascinated). Having said that, I would like to post a list called “10 Signs You Are An Unquestioned Christian.” Remember before reading, I will be answering them as if I believed God.

Remember, rather than creating a conflict, I am searching to further gain my knowledge.

1. You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.
   
   If i believed in God, i would know God is everything, so then the thousands of gods (sun, wind, rain, etc) are all part of my God. We’re all worshiping the same fundamental idea. God is everywhere.

9. You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

 This is one I do not how to properly answer. If anyone can your (name removed by moderator)ut would be greatly appreciated.

8. You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity God.

 God is not broken down into anything. The Trinity simply explains how god can be everywhere. The Father, meaning God's "personality" that planned salvation and grants forgiveness. Father just indicates deep affection and intimacy towards his creations. The Son, is God's human form, a way of allowing him to personally connect with his creations by experiencing all the temptations we as humans have to deal with. (Hebrews 2:17-18) The Holy Spirit, which is God inside of humans, allowing him to know everything about humans so if they dont know how to express themselves to God, he still understands their needs. (read romans 8:26-27) Sorry for the rant, "I know God is not broken down into anything" would not have really answered this very well haha

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7. Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the first-born babies in Egypt in “exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” – including women, children and animals!**

 God works in mysterious ways. haha about all i can do to say on this. If someone can help me, thanks. I would like to be able to defend this without using Bible quotes.

6. You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with mortal women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a “man-God” who got killed, can back to life and then ascended into the sky.

 This goes back my 3 response. You say Holy Spirit as something completely opposite of God. God impregnated Mary, because the holy spirit inside his creations is God. Jesus is not a man-god superhero. Jesus more symbolized God coming to earth as a man to help save the world of sin. It was God showing that he would die for everyone of his creations. The one time God comes to Earth, he is willing to die for the sins of the world. The reason God had to be sacrificed in Jesus was because Jesus was perfect, if he wasn't then he would simply be an extraordinary human, but not a God.

5. You are willing to spend you life looking for littele loopholes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is only 6000 years old!

 Science is knowledge, no doubt there. "When learned men begin to fall into error, they are driven by the devil to display even greater amd more grievious folly than the illiterate." which is not a Bible quote.

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4. You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs – though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend enternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet, you consider Christianity the most “tolerant” and “loving”.**

 But they are still given the opportunity to believe in God until the very end of days. God is patient, merciful and just. He will wait patiently to see if one turns around and believes.

3. While modern science, history, geology, biology and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor “speaking in tongues” may be all the evidence you need.

 I don't know quite what this meant. I was thinking it meant that science is proving biblical stories wrong. So i answered it like this. Taking the Bible too literal is peoples main problem. The Bible should be viewed as God's "Journal." Although, he did not write it himself, it provides a portrayal of who God is and what makes him work. Reading the Bible allows one to discover what is important to God and how he relates to people and also his future plans for this world. It is a way to achieve eternal life with him.

1. You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure was simply the “will of God”.
   
   I can not try and begin to defend this, my apologies. I do not pray at all (even in sports games) so ill just someone else take care of that.

1. You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and Church history – but you still call yourself a "Christian"
i don't admit to knowing much but I consider myself much more informed than the majority of my Christian friends. That is for sure.

 

[Zerilos]

Okay, I must start off by saying; myself personally I believe science more than anything. I look at God as Einstein looked at physics (extremely fascinated). Having said that, I would like to post a list called “10 Signs You Are An Unquestioned Christian.” Remember before reading, I will be answering them as if I believed God.

Remember, rather than creating a conflict, I am searching to further gain my knowledge.

10. You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

 If i believed in God, i would know God is everything, so then the thousands of gods (sun, wind, rain, etc) are all part of my God. We're all worshiping the same fundamental idea. God is everywhere.

Of course, this line of reason works for all religions equally as well.

9. You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

 This is one I do not how to properly answer. If anyone can your (name removed by moderator)ut would be greatly appreciated.

Made of dirt and born deserving to be tortured eternally.

1. Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the first-born babies in Egypt in “exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” – including women, children and animals!

 God works in mysterious ways. haha about all i can do to say on this. If someone can help me, thanks. I would like to be able to defend this without using Bible quotes.

If they bring these verses up:
Psalms 137: O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,
****** happy is he who repays you
****** for what you have done to us-
*9 he who seizes your infants
****** and dashes them against the rocks.

or these
Hosea 13:16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
****** because they have rebelled against their God.
****** They will fall by the sword;
****** their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
****** their pregnant women ripped open."

or these verses

Numbers 31:14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.
*15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

or

Ezekiel 9:5 As I listened, God said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.

Just tell them that God is God and he can do as he pleases. All the more reason to worship the god of love.

 

[prodigalson12]

Give them a blessed Miraculous Medal and crucifix and if they will take it, a rosary, put aside daily prayer time for them, be sure they have your phone number and/or email, wait for their conversion story. The rest of the tactics you are using, good luck with it, you’ll learn plenty so not a waste of time, yet life is too short here guys, prayer is greater action in play most of the time, much more effective as well.

 

[Zerilos]

Give them a blessed Miraculous Medal and crucifix and if they will take it, a rosary, put aside daily prayer time for them, be sure they have your phone number and/or email, wait for their conversion story. The rest of the tactics you are using, good luck with it, you’ll learn plenty so not a waste of time, yet life is too short here guys, prayer is greater action in play most of the time, much more effective as well.

I assume you never go to a doctor?

 

[lemondiesel]

Give them a blessed Miraculous Medal and crucifix and if they will take it, a rosary, put aside daily prayer time for them, be sure they have your phone number and/or email, wait for their conversion story. The rest of the tactics you are using, good luck with it, you’ll learn plenty so not a waste of time, yet life is too short here guys, prayer is greater action in play most of the time, much more effective as well.

maybe I am just a little bit slow, but what is the point of this point relative to my original post?

 

[s4angel]

I met my first athiest when I was only 11, he handed me this book and the first question where was such and such book? Heck I didn’t know I knew only that I was Gods creation and loved by him, it was just that simple, he loved me and I loved him, end of story nothing to it.

As I grew older the doubts came. Man how I wished to be a small child again! Then I realized why not? why should I not believe and no one could give me one iota of proof why i shouldn’t believe. I am but a child but I believe. How darn simple can it be?

 

[lemondiesel]

that is why it is not so simple

 

[lemondiesel]

my appologies for making this thread please dont think i am hear promoting atheism or anything like that, i am just soo fascinated by learning about religion, that this is more research and knowledge for me

 

[USMCatholic]

You got responses that you didn’t understand because your message body is a non sequitor to the title. You talk in the latter of defending Christianity from atheists, so some people assume you are talking of conversion and give advice on how to do that. After reading your post a few times, however I believe this is what you were trying to say:
You are not Christian. However, in the interest of open-mindedness and philosophical honesty, you wish to defend Christianity from some arguments that an atheist would lodge against it. You use this list as your arguments to defend against.
If this is what you were attempting to communicate, I can assure you that your post was worded in a very confusing manner.
As far as addressing this list… very few of them represent actual rational arguments against Christianity. Most of them are based on willful misinterpretations of Church doctrine, and as such no amount of explanation can suffice so long as the insistence on misinterpreting is still there. These serve only to reinforce those who already disbelieve in their disbelief.

 

[lemondiesel]

You got responses that you didn’t understand because your message body is a non sequitor to the title. You talk in the latter of defending Christianity from atheists, so some people assume you are talking of conversion and give advice on how to do that. After reading your post a few times, however I believe this is what you were trying to say:
You are not Christian. However, in the interest of open-mindedness and philosophical honesty, you wish to defend Christianity from some arguments that an atheist would lodge against it. You use this list as your arguments to defend against.
If this is what you were attempting to communicate, I can assure you that your post was worded in a very confusing manner.
As far as addressing this list… very few of them represent actual rational arguments against Christianity. Most of them are based on willful misinterpretations of Church doctrine, and as such no amount of explanation can suffice so long as the insistence on misinterpreting is still there. These serve only to reinforce those who already disbelieve in their disbelief.

These were the top ten “problems” atheist have with Christianity. I was just wondering how to answer the ones about science pretty much.

 

[tbcrawford]

I do not understand what you are attempting to achieve with your title ‘My attempt to defend Christianity from Atheist’
We can only pray for the Holy Spirit to guide non believers and hope they soften their hearts and open their minds.

Here is a conversion story

www.conversiondiary.com/2007/10/why-im-catholic.html - the diary of a former atheist

 

[lemondiesel]

I do not understand what you are attempting to achieve with your title ‘My attempt to defend Christianity from Atheist’
We can only pray for the Holy Spirit to guide non believers and hope they soften their hearts and open their minds.

Here is a conversion story

www.conversiondiary.com/2007/10/why-im-catholic.html - the diary of a former atheist

i guess i was looking more for a Catholic theologian type on this forum.

 

[Zerilos]

I met my first athiest when I was only 11, he handed me this book and the first question where was such and such book? Heck I didn’t know I knew only that I was Gods creation and loved by him, it was just that simple, he loved me and I loved him, end of story nothing to it.

As I grew older the doubts came. Man how I wished to be a small child again! Then I realized why not? why should I not believe and no one could give me one iota of proof why i shouldn’t believe. I am but a child but I believe. How darn simple can it be?

Ah, so you’re a Muslim then?

 

[VeritasSeeker]

First off, lemondiesel, your title is inappropriate for what you have written. Second, all of your questions are not formal arguments, not to mention they really don’t really say anything against the existence of a theistic God. Thirdly most of your “arguments” seem to me to revolve around attacking emotions(“you feel insulted, your face turns purple, you laugh at,you are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes”…etc), and most of them commit the Tu quoque fallacy. Please provide substantive valid arguments(with premises and a conclusion) so that I (pm me if you want), and others may reply. Would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

1. You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

Messianic Prophecy shows that Jesus is the Messiah, therefore all other gods are false.

9. You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

we arent protestants, we are allowed to believe or disbelieve in evolution as we might wish

8. You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity God.

like a 3-leaf clover is three leaves or parts of one plant, so is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. the Trinity isnt an easily understood piece of theology. therefore we call it the mystery of the trinity. but St.Patricks explanation is as good as any.

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7. Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the first-born babies in Egypt in “exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” – including women, children and animals!**

from G-ds perspective death isnt a big deal. People dont disappear from existence, they are simply punished by having their physical bodies taken from them. they still exist.

6. You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with mortal women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a “man-God” who got killed, can back to life and then ascended into the sky.

because we know who G-d is, as evidenced by Messianic Prophecy. once that is established we know all other religions to be false.

5. You are willing to spend you life looking for littele loopholes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is only 6000 years old!

most Catholics arent YEC. thats usually protestants.

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4. You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs – though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend enternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet, you consider Christianity the most “tolerant” and “loving”.**

yes, love requires that we allow the ones we love to make their own choices. forcing them to do as we wish, or as G-d wishes is little more than rape.

3. While modern science, history, geology, biology and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor “speaking in tongues” may be all the evidence you need.

evidence of what?

1. You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure was simply the “will of God”.

i dont know what that percentage of efficacy is based on, but often the answer to a prayer is, simply ‘no’. even when it is yes, how would you always know?

1. You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and Church history – but you still call yourself a "Christian"

i think this mostlyy just depends on the individual, im not well vversed myself. but ive had atheists over to my house, misqouting the Bible, absolutely sure they are right, until we actually turn to the verse in a Catholic Bible.

iv e done the same misinterpretation myself.

 

[Zerilos]

Messianic Prophecy shows that Jesus is the Messiah, therefore all other gods are false.

Messianic prophecy shows that the creators of Christianity made a deliberate attempt to fabricate a character who appeared to be the fulfillment of prophecy. Of course there were several messianic prophecies that Jesus clearly didn’t fulfill, thus the need to claim that he would return.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Messianic prophecy shows that the creators of Christianity made a deliberate attempt to fabricate a character who appeared to be the fulfillment of prophecy.

who were these creators and what was their motivation to fabricate a ‘character’?

Of course there were several messianic prophecies that Jesus clearly didn’t fulfill, thus the need to claim that he would return.

why is this a problem? is there something that says all Prophecy must be met in a certain time frame? maybe you could tell me which ones trouble you?

 

[Zerilos]

who were these creators and what was their motivation to fabricate a ‘character’?

What were the motivations of the founders of any religion? The fact that I can’t interview them and provide in exact detail their motive doesn’t mean they didn’t fabricate a messiah.

why is this a problem? is there something that says all Prophecy must be met in a certain time frame? maybe you could tell me which ones trouble you?

It’s not a problem, but it seems funny that Jesus failed to fulfill all of the prophecies that they couldn’t fake.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

What were the motivations of the founders of any religion? The fact that I can’t interview them and provide in exact detail their motive doesn’t mean they didn’t fabricate a messiah.

ok, do you have any evidence to show that a fabrication occured?

It’s not a problem, but it seems funny that Jesus failed to fulfill all of the prophecies that they couldn’t fake.

can you present evidence to show they were faked?

 

[lemondiesel]

warpspeedpetey, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut and reply. I was looking for feedback in that format, so thank you

What were the motivations of the founders of any religion? The fact that I can’t interview them and provide in exact detail their motive doesn’t mean they didn’t fabricate a messiah.

Motivation could have been anything. Some might say religion was formed because people have no answer for what lies after death. Some others might say (and I am in this group) that religions were created to fully control certain populations via entering daily life rituals.

The fact that you can’t interview any of the writers just shows how much faith is required to actually take religion seriously. When you say fabricate a messiah, you must remember that the majority of illustrations that show Jesus as white. I only add this point because personally I believe it just shows Man creating Jesus.