My aunt and her "life companion"

[RCMomMonica]

My aunt is a religious sister, and so initially I thought of posting this question in Vocations. But my concern is more to do with my family and kids, so I decided to post here.

I am 30, married, and a mom to 4 kids with another on the way. My aunt is in her 60s and has been a nun since before I was born. She belongs to a very liberal religious community, which has long been a bone of contention between her and my mother, a much more traditional Catholic. In spite of that, we’ve had a decent relationship, maybe in part because until recently, we lived on opposite sides of the country and only see her once a year haha. But in any event, I’ve always appreciated her as an aunt and she is a very good person.

Recently, my husband was offered a very good position in the city where my aunt resides, so we have moved across country. The position is only for 2 years, but definitely worth it for the money. And I was looking forward to spending more time with my aunt. She is very good with kids, and even with the few times they have seen her, my kids love her to pieces.

The problem is, there are some things about my aunt that I never realized until quite recently. Other older members of the family knew, but purposely never told me. My aunt came out publicly as a lesbian a few years back. I don’t really care about that, I have gay friends so its not really an issue. But what I do have an issue with is that she continues to be a nun yet no longer lives with other members of her religious community. Instead she lives with a “life companion” (her words), another lesbian who is a Buddhist. She said they fell in love about 10 years ago, and decided to live together as celibates. They do everything together including going on holidays. At the same time, my aunt continues to be a spiritual director, works at a retreat house, and is the provincial superior for her congregation. I had a long discussion with her recently, and asked why she just did not leave religious life completely. She said she considered it, but decided to stay because her congregation was okay with it. She doesn’t consider it a violation of vows, as long as she is celibate. I disagree with that, but that’s for another discussion.

If it was just me and my husband, I could overlook the situation, even though I don’t agree with it. I have friends and family members who are not traditional Catholics. But I have my children to consider. My 2 oldest children are becoming very aware of things, and they both love nuns… their catechist this past year, until we moved, was a nun from a traditional order connected to our former parish. My kids recently asked me why Great Auntie doesn’t wear a habit or live in a convent, like the other Sisters they’ve known. I just told them some nuns don’t wear habits, which seemed to satisfy them in the moment. But I feel like there are going to be more and more questions over time, and overall I just feel really uncomfortable with the situation.

Anyhow, I don’t really know where I am going with this, just kind of not sure what to do (my husband feels unsure also). I think we’re both still a bit shocked as we didn’t know about all this until recently. I love my aunt, and her “life companion” is a lovely person as well. But I do have to consider my children. How to include my aunt in their lives? Just not sure.

 

[27lw]

Well, I think this is troublesome for the reason some people may call “scandal”. We expect religious sisters and brothers to have a certain lifestyle, and your aunt doesn’t live up to that. She may be a perfectly lovely person in some ways, but not if her lifestyle is calling into question your values that you are hoping to pass on to your kids. Not sure what the best solution is here. We have a lot of in-laws that are extremely liberal, and my kids know they are just “kooky” in some ways. But you don’t really want to go around painting a sister as “kooky”…hmmmm…

 

[RCinMT]

My aunt is a religious sister, and so initially I thought of posting this question in Vocations. But my concern is more to do with my family and kids, so I decided to post here.

I am 30, married, and a mom to 4 kids with another on the way. My aunt is in her 60s and has been a nun since before I was born. She belongs to a very liberal religious community, which has long been a bone of contention between her and my mother, a much more traditional Catholic. In spite of that, we’ve had a decent relationship, maybe in part because until recently, we lived on opposite sides of the country and only see her once a year haha. But in any event, I’ve always appreciated her as an aunt and she is a very good person.

Recently, my husband was offered a very good position in the city where my aunt resides, so we have moved across country. The position is only for 2 years, but definitely worth it for the money. And I was looking forward to spending more time with my aunt. She is very good with kids, and even with the few times they have seen her, my kids love her to pieces.

The problem is, there are some things about my aunt that I never realized until quite recently. Other older members of the family knew, but purposely never told me. My aunt came out publicly as a lesbian a few years back. I don’t really care about that, I have gay friends so its not really an issue. But what I do have an issue with is that she continues to be a nun yet no longer lives with other members of her religious community. Instead she lives with a “life companion” (her words), another lesbian who is a Buddhist. She said they fell in love about 10 years ago, and decided to live together as celibates. They do everything together including going on holidays. At the same time, my aunt continues to be a spiritual director, works at a retreat house, and is the provincial superior for her congregation. I had a long discussion with her recently, and asked why she just did not leave religious life completely. She said she considered it, but decided to stay because her congregation was okay with it. She doesn’t consider it a violation of vows, as long as she is celibate. I disagree with that, but that’s for another discussion.

If it was just me and my husband, I could overlook the situation, even though I don’t agree with it. I have friends and family members who are not traditional Catholics. But I have my children to consider. My 2 oldest children are becoming very aware of things, and they both love nuns… their catechist this past year, until we moved, was a nun from a traditional order connected to our former parish. My kids recently asked me why Great Auntie doesn’t wear a habit or live in a convent, like the other Sisters they’ve known. I just told them some nuns don’t wear habits, which seemed to satisfy them in the moment. But I feel like there are going to be more and more questions over time, and overall I just feel really uncomfortable with the situation.

Anyhow, I don’t really know where I am going with this, just kind of not sure what to do (my husband feels unsure also). I think we’re both still a bit shocked as we didn’t know about all this until recently. I love my aunt, and her “life companion” is a lovely person as well. But I do have to consider my children. How to include my aunt in their lives? Just not sure.

Wowza! What a difficult situation. Obviously being a homosexual is not a sin, engaging in sexual relations outside of a valid marriage is. So she’s not sinning and sounds quite lovely.

But it does raise a few questions:

1. What would the reaction be if a priest moved in with a man or woman with whom he was in love but remained celibate? Would that ever be acceptable?
2. Does she believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church? It’s problematic enough that the laity tries to claim Catholicism but define its own morality but it seems entirely unacceptable for a professed religious to do so?
3. Are there any other members of her order living in a celibate “partnership” with another person, regardless of orientation? As with a priest, what would be said about a religious sister living with a man?
4. Do you find it problematic that she is with somebody who doesn’t even share her faith? I mean, I wouldn’t expect a minister or pastor from a denomination that permits marriage to be married to somebody who isn’t from their denomination, no less not even sharing their faith at all.

I don’t want to give advice but it would be a lot easier if she would leave the order. Is she just not interested in a change of “career” at this age? Young people look up to all people who profess their faith to act as witnesses but especially to ordained clergy and religious sisters and your aunt might not be living a proper witness in line with all Church teaching.

Tough situation…

 

[joeybaggz]

Anyhow, I don’t really know where I am going with this, just kind of not sure what to do (my husband feels unsure also). I think we’re both still a bit shocked as we didn’t know about all this until recently. I love my aunt, and her “life companion” is a lovely person as well. But I do have to consider my children. How to include my aunt in their lives? Just not sure.

Assuming you baptized your children, you and your husband are their first and primary teachers. Reading your story you have some very definite responsibilities to convey to them, and, I think, an opportunity to teach them some very important tenets of our faith.

You say your aunt and her companion are celibate and as such you aunt believes she has not compromised her vows. and her community does seem to think so either. So, as to judgment of her situation I suggest letting God be God. (Though I do wonder what her local bishop would have to say.)

You seem to be handling teaching your children well. I suggest you closely monitor what your aunt imparts to your kids and if something arises that is substantially against what you want your kids to learn, it is then you need to step in and teach them the correct, Catholic, moral positions. There is nothing wrong with pointing out where another is wrong in their words or actions, while treating that person in a loving manner and showing that to your kids. And possibly have a serious conversation with your aunt as to what is in bounds and out of bounds when relating to the kids.

I think you have an opportunity to show your children what is proper and in line with the Catholic way you with to raise them, and at the same time be loving and patient with them as they navigate their relationship with their aunt.

I wish you luck and will say a prayer for you and for all parents trying to raise their kids properly as to our Catholic faith.

Shalom

 

[RCMomMonica]

Well, I think this is troublesome for the reason some people may call “scandal”. We expect religious sisters and brothers to have a certain lifestyle, and your aunt doesn’t live up to that. She may be a perfectly lovely person in some ways, but not if her lifestyle is calling into question your values that you are hoping to pass on to your kids. Not sure what the best solution is here. We have a lot of in-laws that are extremely liberal, and my kids know they are just “kooky” in some ways. But you don’t really want to go around painting a sister as “kooky”…hmmmm…

Yes, my mother refers to her as scandalous haha. I suppose that is my main issue, how not to have my kids be “scandalized”. At present they are too young - the oldest is 8 - to really understand what’s going on with my aunt, but I am concerned that there will be more questions as they get older and spend more time with her. And yes I agree, I want them to have a positive view of religious and religious life in general, and wouldn’t feel comfortable telling them my aunt, a nun, is “kooky”. My 8 year old has expressed interest in becoming a priest and will force his siblings to be congregants for his play masses at the coffee table. Whether or not he actually becomes a priest remains to be seen, but I want my children to grow up with positive images of priests and nuns, so… yeah. A very difficult situation indeed.

 

[RCMomMonica]

1. What would the reaction be if a priest moved in with a man or woman with whom he was in love but remained celibate? Would that ever be acceptable?

THIS!! My husband and I were just discussing this very scenario, as we experienced a similar situation in our old diocese. There was a priest there who came out as gay, and then asked permission of the bishop to live with his gay partner. The bishop said no, and as a result, the man left the priesthood. It does seem like a double standard. But from what I understand or have been told, this religious community makes its own decisions independent of the bishop.

1. Does she believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church? It’s problematic enough that the laity tries to claim Catholicism but define its own morality but it seems entirely unacceptable for a professed religious to do so?

She says she does, but her ideas of what is Catholic are quite different from mine. In a nutshell, Sister Joan Chittister OSB is one of her role models, and she has also (in the past) attended Call To Action conventions. She doesn’t do so anymore though, as she was warned about that. Suffice it to say though, that she is very liberal.

1. Are there any other members of her order living in a celibate “partnership” with another person, regardless of orientation? As with a priest, what would be said about a religious sister living with a man?

Not that I know of, but the other Sisters mostly all live alone in apartments now, or in seniors homes. They have closed all their convents and residences. Their religious community is essentially dying… my aunt was one of their last vocations (and she joined in the 70s). She’s also one of the youngest members,. I think perhaps because the community is coming to a close so to speak, they maybe are too old to really argue with her.

1. Do you find it problematic that she is with somebody who doesn’t even share her faith? I mean, I wouldn’t expect a minister or pastor from a denomination that permits marriage to be married to somebody who isn’t from their denomination, no less not even sharing their faith at all.

My aunt actually has a statue of the Buddha in her bedroom (something else I just found out about the other day!). When I asked her about it, she said she uses whatever symbols appeal to her, whether they are Christian or not. So… yeah. Totally not up to me to judge, but definitely confusing, especially for my kids.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

I don’t think you have anything to worry about. I’m sure your aunt is tactful and will not say or do anything harmful to your kids. I also cannot imagine your children figuring anything out on their own until they are adults. Children just do not see things that we adults do. Again, I think this is a non-issue as far as your children are concerned. It won’t be difficult to explain to your children the circumstances your aunt is in…like you said, not all nuns live in convents…it’s not common for religious people to have a non-religious roommate but she has one…Aunt so and so is friends with her roommate so they go places together…etc, etc.

 

[RCMomMonica]

You seem to be handling teaching your children well. I suggest you closely monitor what your aunt imparts to your kids and if something arises that is substantially against what you want your kids to learn, it is then you need to step in and teach them the correct, Catholic, moral positions. There is nothing wrong with pointing out where another is wrong in their words or actions, while treating that person in a loving manner and showing that to your kids. And possibly have a serious conversation with your aunt as to what is in bounds and out of bounds when relating to the kids.

I think you have an opportunity to show your children what is proper and in line with the Catholic way you with to raise them, and at the same time be loving and patient with them as they navigate their relationship with their aunt.

Wow, this is great advice. I do always try to find a silver lining, but this hadn’t occurred to me yet. Probably pregnancy brain… Up to this point, my husband and I have been pretty “spoiled” as we lived near my parents and his, both of whom are traditional Catholics, as well as belonging to a great parish and Catholic community. I hope to find the same kind of community here, but we were definitely pretty lucky and probably took that for granted. I do plan to speak to my aunt further about my expectations.

I wish you luck and will say a prayer for you and for all parents trying to raise their kids properly as to our Catholic faith.

Thanks so much, I can always use the prayers. And sorry to cut this short, but nap time is over lol.

 

[RCMomMonica]

I don’t think you have anything to worry about. I’m sure your aunt is tactful and will not say or do anything harmful to your kids. I also cannot imagine your children figuring anything out on their own until they are adults. Children just do not see things that we adults do. Again, I think this is a non-issue as far as your children are concerned. It won’t be difficult to explain to your children the circumstances your aunt is in…like you said, not all nuns live in convents…it’s not common for religious people to have a non-religious roommate but she has one…Aunt so and so is friends with her roommate so they go places together…etc, etc.

Thanks for the reassurance, I hope you are right! I think my husband and I are just a bit stunned still, as we just found this all out in the last couple of days. And yes, my aunt is a wonderful lady, I loved her when I was a child and I turned out okay haha. So maybe that is proof enough that she will good with my kids.

 

[WilliamE]

My aunt actually has a statue of the Buddha in her bedroom

Just as an aside, our priest has a Buddha in the rectory garden. It was given to him by a friend he visited in Thailand a few years ago. He considers it to be a work of art and a reminder of his friend, not a religious object.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I’m not a liberal, but if this Order makes decisions separate from a Bishop then it’s up to her superior. She takes the ultimate responsibility for the decision along with your aunt.

There was a Priest in our state who used to place Buddhist statues in his Church. It all started off harmlessly enough, his parish had a lot of “alternative” lifestyle people that weren’t Catholic and didn’t attend.

He made some changes and soon word started to spread, he had Buddhists, the local gays etc attending Mass. The existing parishioners welcomed them but then things started to change, he started melding other practices into the Mass and eventually you had buddhist statues in the church etc.

The initial congregation revolted and reported him to the Bishop who investigated over a few months and spoke to the Priest asking him to remove the Buddhist statues from inside the Church amongst other “advice”. The Priest went to the media and started publicly revealing information such as the report has been sent to Rome and the Church is vilifying him and his “alternative” congregation.

Needless to say he was stood down and the parish church is back in the hands of the diocese with a new Priest but the old one wouldn’t quit. He kept making public statements that the church was his and how dare the Vatican censure him.

We are all responsible for our own Salvation but if someone I love is erring from the path, I would have no hesitation in having a open and honest conversation. It doesn’t need to be accusatory, it just needs to come from a place of love. I would hope someone from my family in Christ would do the same for me and they have but we need to be open to correction and not many people are.

 

[RCMomMonica]

Just as an aside, our priest has a Buddha in the rectory garden. It was given to him by a friend he visited in Thailand a few years ago. He considers it to be a work of art and a reminder of his friend, not a religious object.

Sorry, I probably should elaborate a bit. I don’t have a problem with a Buddhist statue as a decoration, something to have in the garden, a work of art, or even as a way to remind people to be calm or meditate. Its not my taste, but I don’t have an issue with it.

But in the case of my aunt, she has no other religious symbols in her home. No pictures or statues of Jesus or Mary, no crucifixes, no Catholic images whatsoever. If you had a tour of her house, you wouldn’t realize a Catholic lived there, let alone a nun. Sorry I wasn’t more clear about that.

 

[RCMomMonica]

Needless to say he was stood down and the parish church is back in the hands of the diocese with a new Priest but the old one wouldn’t quit. He kept making public statements that the church was his and how dare the Vatican censure him.

Your story reminds me of something that happened to a high school friend of mine. She was raised very strong Catholic, even thought of becoming a nun. But while at University, she met a priest (the chaplain of the school) who was into all kinds alternative ideas, prayers, etc. She joined a group on campus and I remember how much she questioned all the things that were going on. We used to chat on MSN at night (I was at a different school) and we would discuss what the priest was telling her. Eventually though, she started accepting what he was saying, and within a year she had changed her religious views completely. Ultimately she ended up leaving the Church and now she’s a Wiccan. I still keep in touch with her via Facebook and she seems very happy, but we are worlds apart now! And although its beyond my control, I worry about this kind of thing happening with my kids.

We are all responsible for our own Salvation but if someone I love is erring from the path, I would have no hesitation in having a open and honest conversation. It doesn’t need to be accusatory, it just needs to come from a place of love. I would hope someone from my family in Christ would do the same for me and they have but we need to be open to correction and not many people are.

I have spoken to my aunt somewhat, but its a little difficult as she’s my mom’s age, and I feel respect to her as my aunt and my elder. And I think from some of her responses to me, that she feels I am young and will change my mind when I get older. I will continue to have discussions with her though, especially where my kids are concerned.

 

[RCinMT]

Sorry, I probably should elaborate a bit. I don’t have a problem with a Buddhist statue as a decoration, something to have in the garden, a work of art, or even as a way to remind people to be calm or meditate. Its not my taste, but I don’t have an issue with it.

But in the case of my aunt, she has no other religious symbols in her home. No pictures or statues of Jesus or Mary, no crucifixes, no Catholic images whatsoever. If you had a tour of her house, you wouldn’t realize a Catholic lived there, let alone a nun. Sorry I wasn’t more clear about that.

This is a problem, to me. To summarize, she’s living with another person in a romantic but celibate relationship, thought about leaving her order, doesn’t have any Christian art or symbols but Buddhist statue. Does she engage in Catholic activities at all? Mass? Catholic social work?

I see others saying that as long as you teach your kids well that’s it’s not a problem but I think it is. When your kids reach the mid-teen to early college years and start questioning their faith more, considering relativism or maybe even considering whether they want to be fully faithful or smorgasbord Catholics, it’s going to be much easier to take the path of least resistance when they can think “Well, auntie was a nun and she thought this or that was okay”. And maybe is it okay, I guess we’ll find out in the next life but based on what we’ve been taught through 2000 years of Church teaching, there’s a lot going on that doesn’t sound OK.

If this kind of behavior would call into question the actual beliefs of a lay person it’s doubly problematic for an avowed religious.

 

[CradleJourney]

Yes, my mother refers to her as scandalous haha. I suppose that is my main issue, how not to have my kids be “scandalized”. At present they are too young - the oldest is 8 - to really understand what’s going on with my aunt, but I am concerned that there will be more questions as they get older and spend more time with her. And yes I agree, I want them to have a positive view of religious and religious life in general, and wouldn’t feel comfortable telling them my aunt, a nun, is “kooky”. My 8 year old has expressed interest in becoming a priest and will force his siblings to be congregants for his play masses at the coffee table. Whether or not he actually becomes a priest remains to be seen, but I want my children to grow up with positive images of priests and nuns, so… yeah. A very difficult situation indeed.

I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this situation.

From my own experience raising my kids, I’ve come up with a standard explanation for questions regarding “questionable” circumstances. Basically it’s that because people are different, they hold different beliefs about what is acceptable. That doesn’t change the fact that they are people who are created by God and so we should always afford everyone the respect due a human being (or in this case due a relative ). However, in our family we believe X is correct/incorrect because Y (insert whatever appropriate for X and Y based on their specific question).

I haven’t had to deal with liberal religious - but I have raised several children through public school and this actually works quite well for everything from questions about swear words, turban wearing, vegetarianism, shoulderless tops, same-sex marriage, and everything else they come home with.

The main thing is to be open to your children’s questions and be ready to stand firm always on what you believe to be right (and back it up with sources such as the catechism, Bible, personal examples) while at the same time, never criticizing the person they are questioning about. If you do so, then (esp. as they become teens), it becomes about who mom/dad “like” / “don’t like” and/or sets them up with conflicts in their peer group. By modeling the difference between not accepting an action vs not accepting a person, you help set them up for success in the future where they can pleasantly explain to a friend why they won’t go along with a behavior because they feel it’s wrong and still not feel they are risking the friendship (a very big deal with teens).

Granted, it takes quite a few conversations done frequently, but I’ve found it to be well worth my effort as I see my now adult children still following (most) of my teaching while dealing with other adults who hold widely varying beliefs of what is acceptable.

In your specific case, I’d focus on the fact there are different religious orders and that they vary in their mission, dress, culture, and rule - and leave it there for now.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

There’s really nothing you or anyone else can do about her lifestyle ,
Your children will ask many questions about your Aunt and a Squillion other subjects,
Just remember, it ok to say,I Don’t know why , everyone is different ,we don’t all follow what we ourselves think is the correct way, we must do what we in our heart believe is the right way ,

 

[PaulfromIowa]

But in the case of my aunt, she has no other religious symbols in her home. No pictures or statues of Jesus or Mary, no crucifixes, no Catholic images whatsoever. If you had a tour of her house, you wouldn’t realize a Catholic lived there, let alone a nun. Sorry I wasn’t more clear about that.

That is odd, isn’t it? Why don’t you ask her why? Does she pray, does she attend Mass? What does she teach in her spiritual direction?

On the overall question of your kids’ relationship with your aunt, the simple fact is that many religious orders went liberal in the last fifty years, and are dying as a result. You cannot hide this disaster from your kids, nor should you. Many of those individuals in those religious orders had good intentions, but they were very wrong, from a Christian perspective. We should pray for them, and for the Church.

I doubt that the lesbian-celibate issue has to come up with children. We all have some diverse/eccentric relatives, don’t we?

 

[Allegra]

My Great Aunt Mary lived with her friend Kansas for most of her adult life. They played in a band together. They slept in twin beds. I certainly never questioned or suspected anything. Even my MOM, who was a grown woman, never put two and two together until a friend explained it to her. Assuming that your aunt is celibate, I don’t think it would necessarily cause scandal for your children to spend time with her and her “life companion”.

 

[Demetra2]

You have already received some good advice and I will add to it. Always be with the kids when in the company of your aunt and her life companion. It will be tempting to use her as a babysitter but that would be a mistake. If the children are alone with her it would give her the opportunity to share too much concerning her lifestyle and what she believes to be good about it. Her natural inclination will be to defend her lifestyle and being a nun she has some clout and could plant a seed in the minds of your kids. Always, always be with your kids while in her company. And please do have an honest conversation about what she can and cannot share about her life with your kids. Good luck. Btw, it seems as if your aunt no longer believes what she is supposed to believe. Pray for her but protect your family. They come first.

 

[EasterJoy]

It is a scandal that she left her community in order to live with someone she preferred for personal reasons, whether or not those reasons included sex. If you leave your husband and abandon the duties of marriage and he is “OK with it,” that doesn’t mean you’re fulfilling the duties of marriage. It means you’re failing without objections from your spouse.

It is rash judgment to assume she’s sexually active if she says she and her friend are only platonic roommates. Having said that, it is not irrelevant that many people past the age of puberty will reasonably question that contention under the conditions you describe. She’s giving scandal, there isn’t any question about that.