My aunt and her "life companion"

[mommy_k]

If your aunt got permission from the bishop and is celibate then there should be no scandal. Many religious sisters have apartments, or are missionaries as they are not cloistered nuns. So perhaps her order allows this and she got permission. As you state, she belongs to a liberal order.

She should not be describing her roomate as a life companion however…The choice of words here is what’s causing a possible scandal. Her roomate is a lay person and a friend. It is not smart of her to use this language to describe the situation.

As for the lack of Catholic statuary, you can buy her a crucifix for her birthday.

As for your children, you don’t have to tell them nitty gritty details…ask your aunt to refer to her roomate as such in thier presence.

 

[Rose71]

I actually find it refreshing to hear of an example of a person who accepts that they are homosexual and also capable of choosing to remain celibate.

I think the term ‘companion’ is much better than something like ‘partner’. Companion suggests friendship and mutual support and ‘life’ suggests commitment to me - but I agree that the choice of wording is hard because different words have different connotations in different parts of the world ( no, I won’t mention the T-word again just because us Brits have a rather basic sense of humour at times!)

 

[27lw]

If your aunt got permission from the bishop and is celibate then there should be no scandal. Many religious sisters have apartments, or are missionaries as they are not cloistered nuns. So perhaps her order allows this and she got permission. As you state, she belongs to a liberal order.

She should not be describing her roomate as a life companion however…The choice of words here is what’s causing a possible scandal. Her roomate is a lay person and a friend. It is not smart of her to use this language to describe the situation.

**As for the lack of Catholic statuary, you can buy her a crucifix for her birthday. **

As for your children, you don’t have to tell them nitty gritty details…ask your aunt to refer to her roomate as such in thier presence.

1. If the aunt describes her roommate as a “life companion”, then no doubt that is how the aunt thinks of her. You don’t think it’s a scandal that she has a “life partner”, just that she uses that term to describe her?
2. Also, you think the aunt doesn’t have a crucifix? Pretty sure she put those away in a closet a while ago. It’s not an accident that there are ZERO religious reminders in her living space.
3. I bet half the fun, as an older liberal nun, is refering to her girlfriend as her “life partner”. I wouldn’t bet on her quitting any time soon. I can imagine that she may see her niece as a terrible stodgy rigid person, who needs to get with the times.

 

[27lw]

I see others saying that as long as you teach your kids well that’s it’s not a problem but I think it is. When your kids reach the mid-teen to early college years and start questioning their faith more, considering relativism or maybe even considering whether they want to be fully faithful or smorgasbord Catholics, it’s going to be much easier to take the path of least resistance when they can think** “Well, auntie was a nun and she thought this or that was okay”.** And maybe is it okay, I guess we’ll find out in the next life but based on what we’ve been taught through 2000 years of Church teaching, there’s a lot going on that doesn’t sound OK.

If this kind of behavior would call into question the actual beliefs of a lay person it’s doubly problematic for an avowed religious.

This. I totally agree with this post. That is partly why auntie lives like this, I suspect, to confuse people’s understanding of religious, and what the Church allows.

 

[mommy_k]

1. If the aunt describes her roommate as a “life companion”, then no doubt that is how the aunt thinks of her. You don’t think it’s a scandal that she has a “life partner”, just that she uses that term to describe her?
2. Also, you think the aunt doesn’t have a crucifix? Pretty sure she put those away in a closet a while ago. It’s not an accident that there are ZERO religious reminders in her living space.
3. I bet half the fun, as an older liberal nun, is refering to her girlfriend as her “life partner”. I wouldn’t bet on her quitting any time soon. I can imagine that she may see her niece as a terrible stodgy rigid person, who needs to get with the times.

If the living situation is approved by the bishop and her order, I am in no position the judge this decision. It must be conducive to her religious work to live away as well. I would like to know the order.

Addressing her roomate as she does, as life companion, is what would cause the scandal. She is celibate, and If she is talking of agape which I am thinking, …no need to state life companion…kwim ?I am also thinking that other nuns,and sisters have best friends in convents too.

Aside from that…just because a religious sister does not fit the expectations of where we think a religious sister or nun should live is not an example of relativism …many sisters, and saints lived and live away from thier convents…so if this is the issue, living away from convent, it’s misplaced, this has been going on since middle ages. St Catherine of Siena, a Dominican tertiary sister, is a good example. And now a doctor of the church…

So, if she is living according to their order and the laws of the church…i was taught that the Church decides these things.

Of course if the op feels this exposure will be a detriment to the way she is raising her children in the faith, then it’s her choice because thier souls are her responsibity to keep pure, and kind.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

A couple of thoughts:

–Your family managed to keep this from you until very recently. And you describe yourself as having a relationship with your aunt. So that suggests that your Aunt cooperated in the holding back of this information from you, and she might be very willing to do the same for your children. Of course, you won’t know until she either reveals or doesn’t reveal that information, unless you choose to talk to her directly about it, and ask her (respectfully) for the favor of doing the same thing for your kids that your family must have asked her to do for you.

–Eventually, your children are going to have to learn that there are priests and nuns out there believing and teaching things they shouldn’t be. Of course, 8 years old is not the age at which a child must learn this. But if they don’t eventually understand this, they won’t be on guard when a priest or nun tries to teach them something wrong. It is important to teach our kids that all humans are capable of making big mistakes, and even priests and nuns are capable of disobeying God, and of misleading people. I have had to teach my kids this because of the many people in our family who are either non-practicing Catholics (which becomes evident in many situations), or who are Joan Chittester / Call to Action Catholics. I try to talk about this, much the same way I talk about the Protestant Reformation. Here is an abbreviated version: “Some people were prideful/didn’t want to obey the Pope, and they chose to follow their own will instead of God’s. Over time, they led more and more people to follow them away from the truth of the Catholic Church. Many of those followers had nothing but good intentions, but were simply taught wrong things. In the same way, there are some people within the Catholic Church who had the same pride and lack of obedience, but instead of leaving the Catholic Church, they started teaching people wrong things about their faith. And very sadly, there are many Catholics today who learned those wrong things, and have made bad choices in their lives because they didn’t understand. It is especially sad when a priest or a nun follows these bad teachings, but they are human like the rest of us, and unfortunately, sometimes even priests and nuns get caught up in these problems. Remember how Peter denied Jesus? If even HE can mess up that badly, of course it is understandable that some priests and nuns today also mess up and deny the truth. This is why it is so important for us to learn our faith correctly, and why I feel so very blessed that I am able to give you the correct information to know what Jesus really wants from us.” Anyway, this really sets up the foundation for not having your world shattered as much when you find out that your great aunt, who is also a nun, is living in a way that is contrary to what your parents have taught you is correct. You start teaching that stuff early on, starting with protestants, and moving to whoever you need to as time goes.

–While I wouldn’t choose to lose this relationship, I would definitely keep the protection of my kids’ from scandal in a higher category than protecting my relationship with my aunt. After all, your responsibility is to form your children. So if it were me, I’d minimize the situations where this might be an issue. If that means seeing less of her, or having the kids be less available to see her, I would do that. If she and her partner are inclined to go everywhere together, you might have to be more proactive, and it might be harder on your relationship with her, but again, your primary concern is allowing your children the chance to mature a little more before they have to deal with certain issues. On the other hand, if they socialize separately and your aunt is likely to visit with you by herself, then you might be able to get away with it.

–I don’t think an 8 year old would be suspicious of a romantic relationship if you told her that your nun-aunt lived in a house and has a house-mate. Kids that age are pretty platonic minded, and would probably just accept that Aunt so-and-so has a best friend, just like they do. Plus most romantic couples show some level of PDA. So if these two women are celibate / living as “sister and sister” then hopefully that means they aren’t holding hands, kissing, touching in the way that romantic couples usually do, which will make it less likely that young ones will be suspicious. But if they do find out, you can make connections between this situation and the many other situations in which people are trying to be good people, but were led away from truth, or made bad choices to sin.

–Aren’t you only going to be there for two years? That’s not really that long, and your oldest will only be 10 when you move away and their contact will be more limited. Perhaps them finding out will be a non-issue.

 

[daniden]

But in the case of my aunt, she has no other religious symbols in her home. No pictures or statues of Jesus or Mary, no crucifixes, no Catholic images whatsoever. If you had a tour of her house, you wouldn’t realize a Catholic lived there, let alone a nun. Sorry I wasn’t more clear about that.

That is a little odd, but I’m wondering, either consciously or subconsciously, she has some sense of guilt over the way she lives and feels she can’t have Catholic symbols in her apartment…like maybe she’s not “worthy” of them? Either that or maybe her partner, being Buddhist, doesn’t really like Christian symbols?

As far as whether you should have your children spend time with her. I wouldn’t have too much of a problem with it as long as I was there so I could listen to what she talks to them about…maybe even have her over at your house instead. I would also talk to your aunt about your feelings and let her know, under no uncertain terms, what you do and don’t want your children to be learning about.

 

[Katherine438]

This isn’t going to sound nice … and I usually try to keep things nice … but I feel strongly about this … so here is my strong opinion.

Have to say that I think the order she belongs to should be kicked out of the Catholic Church … such a liberal order that would accept how your aunt is living is really no order as far as I’m concerned … I also think your Aunt is a good woman who is living life the way she wants to … not according to Catholic teaching. If I were you I would keep my children away from this situation … but then that is my opinion.

God Bless You in your deliberation as to what to do in this situation.

 

[Rau]

There are some elements of this story that may seem fine, but aren’t and some that seen not fine, but are:

…My aunt came out publicly as a lesbian a few years back. I don’t really care about that, I have gay friends so its not really an issue.

Came out publicly? That seems very strange. What would be the reason to “come out”? What needed explaining, for which that announcement was the answer? Was it to explain her living arrangements with another woman? Such a public announcement, followed by living in a “one on one” relationship with a woman (particularly given it’s a novel living arrangement - one a nun, and one not), would seem to be inviting certain conclusions to be drawn,. She is giving scandal.

But what I do have an issue with is that she continues to be a nun yet no longer lives with other members of her religious community.

Many nuns don’t live in groups - some live alone, but of course participate within their sisterly community in various ways.

Instead she lives with a “life companion” (her words), another lesbian who is a Buddhist. She said they fell in love about 10 years ago, and decided to live together as celibates. They do everything together including going on holidays. At the same time, my aunt continues to be a spiritual director, works at a retreat house, and is the provincial superior for her congregation. I had a long discussion with her recently, and asked why she just did not leave religious life completely. She said she considered it, but decided to stay because her congregation was okay with it. She doesn’t consider it a violation of vows, as long as she is celibate. I disagree with that, but that’s for another discussion.

Perhaps there is no violation of any vow here, but it does not seem to be a way of life compatible with religious life. What if the order were more traditional and the nuns lived in a convent? How is her commitment to her friend (a permanent companion with whom she is in love) managed vs her commitment to her order? Would you aunt (or her congregation for that matter) take the view that a religious brother and a religious sister equally form a “life companionship” relationship and live together?

My kids recently asked me why Great Auntie doesn’t wear a habit or live in a convent, like the other Sisters they’ve known. I just told them some nuns don’t wear habits, which seemed to satisfy them in the moment. But I feel like there are going to be more and more questions over time, and overall I just feel really uncomfortable with the situation.

Some nuns don’t wear habits nor live in convents. No issue there. But I agree with your observation that more substantive questions are going to arise. I have no more idea how you will handle those than I understand how on earth her congregation and superiors can accept this situation.

 

[Rau]

I actually find it refreshing to hear of an example of a person who accepts that they are homosexual and also capable of choosing to remain celibate.

I think the term ‘companion’ is much better than something like ‘partner’. Companion suggests friendship and mutual support and ‘life’ suggests commitment to me…

I take your point, but:

• It is not the close friendship that is problematic - but rather the various concrete (and unnecessary) steps she has taken: announcing she is lesbian and seeking to live together with her friend.
• What are the dimensions of this “one on one” mutual commitment? How does that co-exist with the commitment to religious life?

 

[mommy_k]

I take your point, but:

• It is not the close friendship that is problematic - but rather the various concrete (and unnecessary) steps she has taken: announcing she is lesbian and seeking to live together with her friend.
• What are the dimensions of this “one on one” mutual commitment? How does that co-exist with the commitment to religious life?

Yes

Obviously, she’s not from a Benedictine order.then she would have included community living in her vows. Not all orders take this vow. Some sisters here had thier convents closed and they live in an apartment to be able to continue to teach at the school.

I am pretty certain that the aunt did not get permission to do this for the purpose of living with her companion.

As for her coming out, if one is chaste, I can’t wrap my mind,around why this is necessary to announce this. It seems like a moot point, as orientation has no bearing if one is chaste to begin with. If one is celibate one does not have an orientation in my mind. There are no acts.

That’s why announcing this is what the scandal is.

As for statuary, all orders take the vow of poverty… along with chasitiy and obedience.

I was brought up by a,traditional grandmother and was taught to give respect to religious, and I am old fashioned this way. If the aunt is participating in gay activist activities or her friend is, that’s a different thing altogether.

If she is not living chaste, or obeying her superiors, then it’s a problem. But it is dangerous to assume things.

If the op grew up with contact with this aunt, and knew nothing about the above things… don’t know why it would matter to her own kids, if the aunt stops,disclosing her orientation…it did not affect her.

 

[steve93]

Wouldn’t a nun being a lesbian be a cause for concern for the safety of the other nuns?

 

[zea_maize]

Wouldn’t a nun being a lesbian be a cause for concern for the safety of the other nuns?

What safety risks are you imagining? That because she’s a lesbian she’s also a rapist?

As for the OP, I would have a kind conversation with my aunt and just place some boundaries. When I was in elementary school, the female gym teacher and one of the kindergarten teachers lived together, traveled together and spent most of their non-working time together. I probably only knew that because my Dad was also an elementary teacher. No one said anything to them. To this day, I have no idea if they were a gay couple (though stereotypes would tell me they most definitely are gay) or very close friends. I have no ill effects from having these two wonderful women in my life.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Wouldn’t a nun being a lesbian be a cause for concern for the safety of the other nuns?

No more than my female coworkers are in danger because I’m a heterosexual man.

 

[steve93]

What safety risks are you imagining? That because she’s a lesbian she’s also a rapist?

As for the OP, I would have a kind conversation with my aunt and just place some boundaries. When I was in elementary school, the female gym teacher and one of the kindergarten teachers lived together, traveled together and spent most of their non-working time together. I probably only knew that because my Dad was also an elementary teacher. No one said anything to them. To this day, I have no idea if they were a gay couple (though stereotypes would tell me they most definitely are gay) or very close friends. I have no ill effects from having these two wonderful women in my life.

The same reason you wouldn’t want gay religious brothers. Don’t nuns work in girls schools and things? The gay preist abuse scandle has already made the church look bad enough in the public eye. The last thing the Church needs is a corresponding lesbian nun abuse scandal.

 

[zea_maize]

The same reason you wouldn’t want gay religious brothers. Don’t nuns work in girls schools and things? The gay preist abuse scandle has already made the church look bad enough in the public eye. The last thing the Church needs is a corresponding lesbian nun abuse scandal.

Pedophilia is not the same thing as being gay/lesbian.

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by steve93
Wouldn’t a nun being a lesbian be a cause for concern for the safety of the other nuns?

Don’t even get me started about comments I’ve read about homosexual persons, like the poster who kept saying “the mythical homosexual person” or the poster who started a push to make it illegal for gay people to come out of the closet.

What’s sad is that there are undoubtedly some readers who see such comments and think “Oh so then it’s the Catholic position that having a lesbian nun would compromise the safety of the other nuns.”

I mean that makes sense right, seeing an anonymous comment on the internet and assuming it represents the Catholic Church?

(Pardon my sarcasm. )

 

[ToeInTheWater]

The same reason you wouldn’t want gay religious brothers. Don’t nuns work in girls schools and things? The gay preist abuse scandle has already made the church look bad enough in the public eye. The last thing the Church needs is a corresponding lesbian nun abuse scandal.

Pedophilia is not the same thing as being gay/lesbian.

Not to mention how the goalposts suddenly moved from a concern for the “safety of other nuns” (who are presumably adults) to a “lesbian nun abuse scandal”.

Don’t even get me started about comments I’ve read about homosexual persons, like the poster who kept saying “the mythical homosexual person” or the poster who started a push to make it illegal for gay people to come out of the closet.

What’s sad is that there are undoubtedly some readers who see such comments and think “Oh so then the Catholic position is that a lesbian nun is the safety concern for other nuns.”

This doesn’t apply to me, I realize this assumption that “obviously those depraved gays and lesbians are more likely to be sexual predators” is the private misguided prejudice of one person, not the “Catholic position”.

There does seem to be some confusion as to whether the “Catholic position” forbids all same-sex “romantic” relationships such as what the OP’s relative appears to be involved in, or merely forbids the sexual expression of such a romantic love. However I get the impression that the commitment to chastity a religious sister (or brother) is obliged to uphold, disallows “romance” itself, not merely sexual contact.

I’d be more concerned if I were the OP, how this supposed Catholic religious sister has a Buddhist “companion” and doesn’t actually seem to believe what she professes. That I think is more difficult to explain to a young person, if the aunt is in a chaste relationship I don’t think it’s bending the truth too much to refer to her companion as a “friend”.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this situation.

From my own experience raising my kids, I’ve come up with a standard explanation for questions regarding “questionable” circumstances. Basically it’s that because people are different, they hold different beliefs about what is acceptable. That doesn’t change the fact that they are people who are created by God and so we should always afford everyone the respect due a human being (or in this case due a relative ). However, in our family we believe X is correct/incorrect because Y (insert whatever appropriate for X and Y based on their specific question).

I haven’t had to deal with liberal religious - but I have raised several children through public school and this actually works quite well for everything from questions about swear words, turban wearing, vegetarianism, shoulderless tops, same-sex marriage, and everything else they come home with.

The main thing is to be open to your children’s questions and be ready to stand firm always on what you believe to be right (and back it up with sources such as the catechism, Bible, personal examples) while at the same time, never criticizing the person they are questioning about. If you do so, then (esp. as they become teens), it becomes about who mom/dad “like” / “don’t like” and/or sets them up with conflicts in their peer group. By modeling the difference between not accepting an action vs not accepting a person, you help set them up for success in the future where they can pleasantly explain to a friend why they won’t go along with a behavior because they feel it’s wrong and still not feel they are risking the friendship (a very big deal with teens).

Granted, it takes quite a few conversations done frequently, but I’ve found it to be well worth my effort as I see my now adult children still following (most) of my teaching while dealing with other adults who hold widely varying beliefs of what is acceptable.

In your specific case, I’d focus on the fact there are different religious orders and that they vary in their mission, dress, culture, and rule - and leave it there for now.

Very good post. But I would also suggest that the OP ask her aunt if she is willing to “stay in the closet” when talking to the kids.

 

[Peter_J]

This doesn’t apply to me,

I believe you, but there are readers out there who read an anonymous post on the internet and conclude that Catholics in general believe that. Believe me!