My aunt is crazy

[scapularkid8]

I don’t know where this goes or if it’s even allowed for discussion on this forum. If not I’d completely understand but I just want an answer on this.

My aunt recently claimed that she can see and talk to our relatives that have passed. She claims that she has had experiences of being in a Purgatory-like place where our relatives have talked to her. I told her that all these things sound to me like they’re coming from the Great Deceiver but she insists that her encounters with our deceased family make her “feel good” so how could they be evil is her reasoning. She won’t see sense. I told her to talk to a priest about it (I’m only an 18 year old college student so I’m not qualified to handle that), but she has been disappointingly hesitant to do so. She insists that it’s the Holy Spirit, but I beg to differ. Are there any writings by any mystics on the subject of visions? I heard something somewhere about St. John of the Cross telling people to ignore these things even if they ARE divine. Is there a place I could quote that to show her and shake her from denial?!

She’s young (only thirty something) so it’s not like she has dimentia or something…I don’t know, I just don’t want the devil taking advantage of her through this.

NOTE: posted on a feast day (St. Patrick’s!!:shamrock2: :shamrock2: :kissme: :irish1: ) when fasting is lifted so ignore the signature lol.

 

[water]

Your advice for her to see a priest is excellent. However, do not call her as you did in this title. Pray for her even if you are not sure what she is experiencing for humility and obedience.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My aunt use to claim these things as well. However, her behavior never moved toward holiness, but rather, she was very judgmental and prejudice. Obviously, she was mentally ill. However, there was nothing her family members could do for her, until she either became a threat to herself, or to others. So, her daughter,(40 years old) wanting to get her into treatment, sorta provoke an incident, where her mother slapped her across the face and then she drove off with the car. This gave the daughter the opportunity to call the police. The cops took her mother into custody, but when the family members explained what was happening, the police took her to the hospital, where she finally was entered, for psychiatric help. She was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Since then, she is fine and doesn’t have visions or other weird behavior. She must however stay on her medication.

I’m not saying this is the case with your aunt, I’m only sharing, to give you some info to look for. More than likely, this isn’t demonic, but mental.

If she is actually having visions from heaven, you will see her life change toward holy. If not, as in the case of my aunt, she will behave erratically in other ways and will need help.

Right now, there’s not much else you can do, other than to pray, listen and watch.

Jim

 

[scapularkid8]

However, do not call her as you did in this title. Pray for her even if you are not sure what she is experiencing for humility and obedience.

I didn’t really mean that she was crazy lol. I just sorta put that as a sarcastic, eye rolling, stereotype. But I will pray for her.

 

[scapularkid8]

I’m not saying this is the case with your aunt, I’m only sharing, to give you some info to look for. More than likely, this isn’t demonic, but mental.

Well I think it’s something psychologically amiss seeing as my grandfather was somewhat verbally and emotionally abusive to my mom and her siblings (aunt included). and she used that as a segway into the topic saying that great grandma would come to her to comfort her:shrug:? Maybe she has a really hard time dealing with the concept of death and can’t let go of all the relatives we’ve lost in such a short amount of time for various reasons. Just speculating here.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well I think it’s something psychologically amiss seeing as my grandfather was somewhat verbally and emotionally abusive to my mom and her siblings (aunt included).:shrug

Same was true for my aunt and mother. My grandfather was abusive.

Jim

 

[pippin]

There are saints who had visits from people in purgatory. Saint Faustina did. If she really is having visions from God, then like a previous poster said, she will become more holy.

 

[reen12]

My father endured paranoid schizophrenia.
I have been mentally ill all of my life, now into
the 6th decade.

I would like to point out that the Church canonized
Benedict Joseph Labre - who passed his time in pilgrimage,
and who died in Rome at the age of 32. At his death, the
children of Rome ran through the streets, crying:
“The saint is dead!”

I heard a priest-psychologist opine that Labre was almost
certainly schizophrenic. I read his confessor’s biography of
Labre, written in 1784. [English translation, 1786.]

bowdoin.edu/~hholbroo/

I make the point that men and women who endure
severe mental illness may reach sanctity through -
not despite - their illness.

John Nash, also a paranoid schizophrenic, received the
Nobel Prize in mathematics, after a long recovery.
His life story is told in the work “A Beautiful Mind.”

Each who endures mental illness is a son or a daughter
of God - and thereby deserves both respect and
compassion in their illness.

And I will say that, the 12 days that I spent on a
psychiatric ward - brought me into contact with
some of the kindest and most thoughtful people
that I have ever met. I will never forget them.
Just simple kindness, not oft met in the outside world.

One man, who was hospitalized on a psych ward,
became the head of that ward, years later - having
earned a PhD in psychology.

There are many “beautiful minds” out here,
if one’s heart is open.

reen12 :coffeeread:

 

[Zooey]

If your aunt shows other signs of mental illness, that should be taken up with a relative who is old enough to have her treat them with respect.Being as much younger as you are than her, she is only going to be more upset by anything you can say to her…
Personally, as long as she is not throwing money away on “psychics”, I would be inclined to just say, “That’s nice” in a noncommittal way, when she talks about this, and then let it go…
If she would talk to a priest, that would be good, but my sense from what you say here, is that she gets some kind of comfort from her “notions”, & if so, she is probably imagining what she sees, as a comfort to her. The imagination can come up with all kinds of things, & certainly it is good to pray for her, not to get too involved, as long as she is just going along like this, I wouldn’t worry about it much…She sounds like any number of people I have known, who get some kind of comfort or peace from the idea they are somehow seeing/hearing from those who have passed on.
As these things go, your aunt’s imaginings sound fairly mild, & are pretty harmless. (If she were taking, say, medical or legal advice from the folk she “sees”, that would be different).
A wise man once told me, that he had learned not to worry over some of the odd things that people imagine about death & the dead, because most of it is just a way to deal with something they can’t come to terms with in a reasonable way. I think that was pretty sound advice…

But as I say, do pray for her, & if you have a sense that she is being preyed on, I would discuss it with older relatives (or, with that aforementioned priest).

HTH!!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

St. John of the Cross was asked to evaluate the visions that a particular nun claimed she was having. After speaking with her, and learning about her, John rejected her claims and told her never to speak of them again.

St. John had a system of inquiry that he used, and the Church uses, for investigating claims of holy visions or locutions.
One of these days I’ll find it and post it.

However, from what I remember, true visions will transform the visionary profoundly, toward holiness. They will be humble, and do whatever they can to avoid public attention.

St. Bernadette and the children of Fatima, fit these characteristic given by St. John.

My aunt who claimed she was receiving visions, didn’t come close. She was judgmental of people. She was bigoted toward people of different race and ethnicity. All the while, she practiced the Catholic faith, fanatically. As I mentioned before, she was mentally ill, and the visions stopped, once she received help.

Each has to be evaluated individually.

Jim

 

[TOP]

St. John of the Cross was asked to evaluate the visions that a particular nun claimed she was having. After speaking with her, and learning about her, John rejected her claims and told her never to speak of them again.

St. John had a system of inquiry that he used, and the Church uses, for investigating claims of holy visions or locutions.
One of these days I’ll find it and post it.

Jim

I would very much like to read that. In searching, all I could find was a reference to Dubay’s The Fire Within.

"He says that God certainly can and does communicate with us in extraordinary ways. When this happens, it should be esteemed as a gift. But deception and illusion are not rare, so there is a great need for objective ecclesial discernment. Then he gives the following principle, which, he says, “surprises almost everyone when they first hear of it: private divine communications are relatively unimportant.” He goes on to quote St. John of the Cross, who wrote: “one act done in charity is more precious in God’s sight than all the visions and communications possible.” It is so easy to be caught up in the thrill of spectacular events. But virtue lies more often in humility, in the humdrum tasks of everyday which are done for the love of God. St. Therese of Lisieux, who became a saint without extraordinary visions, said, “To ecstasy, I prefer the monotony of sacrifice.”

I am wondering if this is an interuptation to St. John of the Cross’s writings or an explanation. I would feel more comfortable reading it directly in the St.'s writings. Thanks, Tim

P.S. after some more searching I found this.theotokos.org.uk/pages/appdisce/smasters.html

 

[JimR-OCDS]

TOP

I am wondering if this is an interuptation to St. John of the Cross’s writings or an explanation

.

Not the specific piece I referred to. This had to do specifically with St. John’s evaluation of a nun, who claimed to have visions, but was exposed as to fabricating the stories.

I got it from the article from the Spiritual Assistant, of the OCDS group I use to belong to. It was in hard print, and I’ve been searching my archives at home, but haven’t found it yet. He has a web page, but I haven’t found it there either.

I believe it was in either the Letters or the Maxims of St. John of the Cross.

Like I said, if I ever find it, I’ll post it, because it was spot on advice, for discerning the claims people make about having visions.

Jim

 

[TOP]

TOP

.

Not the specific piece I referred to. This had to do specifically with St. John’s evaluation of a nun, who claimed to have visions, but was exposed as to fabricating the stories.

I got it from the article from the Spiritual Assistant, of the OCDS group I use to belong to. It was in hard print, and I’ve been searching my archives at home, but haven’t found it yet. He has a web page, but I haven’t found it there either.

I believe it was in either the Letters or the Maxims of St. John of the Cross.

Like I said, if I ever find it, I’ll post it, because it was spot on advice, for discerning the claims people make about having visions.

Jim

Thanks for the effort. Check my P.S. in prior post. Tim

 

[Nita]

I. Are there any writings by any mystics on the subject of visions? I heard something somewhere about St. John of the Cross telling people to ignore these things even if they ARE divine. Is there a place I could quote that to show her and shake her from denial?!

.

Check out St. John of the Cross’s “The Ascent of Mount Carmel”, Book II, Chapter 11. Here are a few samples:

*2. It must be known that even though these apprehensions can come to the bodily senses from God, one must never rely on them or accept them. A person should rather flee from them completely and have no desire to examine whether they be good or bad. The more exterior and corporeal these things are, the less certain is their divine origin…

1. Individuals who esteem these apprehensions are in serious error and extreme danger of being deceived…
2. …As a result they are a ready occasion for the breeding of error, presumption, and vanity in the soul. …A person, then forsaking faith, will follow after these communications, believing that their light is the guide and means to the goal, which is union with God. But the more importance one gives to these communications the further one strays from faith, the way and means*.

It would be best to read the whole chapter. Don’t know if it’s available online.

Nita

 

[crystal_waters]

I don’t know where this goes or if it’s even allowed for discussion on this forum. If not I’d completely understand but I just want an answer on this.

My aunt recently claimed that she can see and talk to our relatives that have passed. She claims that she has had experiences of being in a Purgatory-like place where our relatives have talked to her. I told her that all these things sound to me like they’re coming from the Great Deceiver but she insists that her encounters with our deceased family make her “feel good” so how could they be evil is her reasoning. She won’t see sense. I told her to talk to a priest about it (I’m only an 18 year old college student so I’m not qualified to handle that), but she has been disappointingly hesitant to do so. She insists that it’s the Holy Spirit, but I beg to differ. Are there any writings by any mystics on the subject of visions? I heard something somewhere about St. John of the Cross telling people to ignore these things even if they ARE divine. Is there a place I could quote that to show her and shake her from denial?!

She’s young (only thirty something) so it’s not like she has dimentia or something…I don’t know, I just don’t want the devil taking advantage of her through this.

NOTE: posted on a feast day (St. Patrick’s!!:shamrock2: :shamrock2: :kissme: :irish1: ) when fasting is lifted so ignore the signature lol.

its a bit mean to call your aunt crazy…afteral maybe she really has been given some kind of gift from god,…after all nothing happens without god permitting it…i do agree with your advice that she should see a priest , the priest will be able to discern her visions and guide her

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I don’t know where this goes or if it’s even allowed for discussion on this forum. If not I’d completely understand but I just want an answer on this.

My aunt recently claimed that she can see and talk to our relatives that have passed. She claims that she has had experiences of being in a Purgatory-like place where our relatives have talked to her. I told her that all these things sound to me like they’re coming from the Great Deceiver but she insists that her encounters with our deceased family make her “feel good” so how could they be evil is her reasoning. She won’t see sense. I told her to talk to a priest about it (I’m only an 18 year old college student so I’m not qualified to handle that), but she has been disappointingly hesitant to do so. She insists that it’s the Holy Spirit, but I beg to differ. Are there any writings by any mystics on the subject of visions? I heard something somewhere about St. John of the Cross telling people to ignore these things even if they ARE divine. Is there a place I could quote that to show her and shake her from denial?!

She’s young (only thirty something) so it’s not like she has dimentia or something…I don’t know, I just don’t want the devil taking advantage of her through this.

NOTE: posted on a feast day (St. Patrick’s!!:shamrock2: :shamrock2: :kissme: :irish1: ) when fasting is lifted so ignore the signature lol.

Hmmm… As someone who claims my father appeared in my room the night he died, and from time to time get a message from my old Protestant pastor (always on a topic I’ve been thinking about, and which has divine relevance), and some other spiritual experiences, I’m a bit hesitant to say she’s “crazy”.

However it’s always a good idea to get a second and third opinion. In that respect, it would be good for her to see a priest, or a spiritual adviser at least. I’m fortunate that I have a Catholic psychiatrist (who believes I saw my father the night he died, and shares some similar experiences) and I also used to discuss these experiences with my old pastor when he was still alive. As you say, the deceiver is just that. And it can be very, very difficult to know sometimes who is giving a particular experience.

I hope you can get her to talk to other people with experience in the matter. She may well be seeing these people, but it would be very wise for her to check with others. “Feeling good” is hardly a useful criteria - the devil would not be likely to send these sorts of things if they made her feel bad, or she’d ignore them.