My beliefs of tarot; advice

[BroIgnatius]

Pope John Paul II did not write it, but had both volumes on his desk for most of his Papacy. He was however close friends with the Cardinal who wrote the foreword. The author, while anonymous, is thought to have been some sort of Clergyman.

If you are speaking of Hans Urs von Balthasar, his is questionable.

What is your source that St. John Paul had this on his desk?

PS. Here is the book in question which speaks favorably about reincarnation.

 

[randomuser]

occult-free tarot card game is very rare

Some of that’s due to legit non-occult books being OOP. One recommended, non-occult title is here:
*
“It might surprise you to learn that tarot cards were created for playing card games and not fortune telling. Indeed, contrary to popular myths, there is nothing occult in their origins. The family of tarot games has been played since the 15th century and continues to be played throughout continental Europe to this day. Sadly, English speakers have usually only heard of tarot in the context of magic and divination.”*
amazon.com/Tarocchi-Introducing-Card-Games-Tarot/dp/1448609720

Non-occult tarot - for card games, not divination - is as acceptable for Catholics as bridge and blackjack and poker.

 

[randomuser]

If you are speaking of Hans Urs von Balthasar, his is questionable.

What is your source that St. John Paul had this on his desk?

alpheus.org/html/articles/esoteric_history/Wojtyla&Tarot.htm
catholickulchur.com/2017/07/15/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/

 

[BroIgnatius]

alpheus.org/html/articles/esoteric_history/Wojtyla&Tarot.htm
catholickulchur.com/2017/07/15/pope-john-paul-ii-meditating-on-the-tarot/

The assertion is that the Pope “had both volumes on his desk for most of his Papacy” and that he mediated upon them.

A picture of the Pope having these volumes on his desk does not prove either assertion.

I have a volume of Aleister Crowley on my desk, and the Satanic Bible. This does not mean that I approved of those volumes or meditate upon them.

Even the article you post says:

Apparently the book landed on the pope’s desk as a gift from one of his Cardinals, the German Jesuit Hans Urs von Balthasar.

This explains why it was on the Pope’s desk and in no way asserts that it was on his desk for the duration of his papacy or that he mediated upon the tarot. This is just pure self-serving speculation.

 

[BroIgnatius]

Some of that’s due to legit non-occult books being OOP. One recommended, non-occult title is here:
*
“It might surprise you to learn that tarot cards were created for playing card games and not fortune telling. Indeed, contrary to popular myths, there is nothing occult in their origins. The family of tarot games has been played since the 15th century and continues to be played throughout continental Europe to this day. Sadly, English speakers have usually only heard of tarot in the context of magic and divination.”*
amazon.com/Tarocchi-Introducing-Card-Games-Tarot/dp/1448609720

Non-occult tarot - for card games, not divination - is as acceptable for Catholics as bridge and blackjack and poker.

These non-occult Tarot (trick-taking games) do not have the same images on them as those of the occult tarot.

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Vitoria_-Bibat_040a.jpg/440px-Vitoria-_Bibat_040a.jpg

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Here are the Tarot used in occult:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

And, one correction, the Tarot used for playing cards in Europe centuries ago were also used for fortune-telling.

The book in question refers to the occult tarot.

 

[pianistclare]

Pianist Clare, I think you should read some good Catholic authors such as Scott Han or Thomas Aquinas. I say this only out of concern, you appear to be suffering from a sort of spiritual despair and fear of the devil. To paraphrase Saint Anthony the Great “He [the Devil] is like a gnat that buzzes around your head. He is a nuisance but not a threat. Pray, and he shall leave.”

Why? I’m not the OP.
I teach the faith and have an advanced Theology degree, work in a parish, but thanks for your concern.

The person who is not aware that the prince of lies wishes to tear us away from the Lord is foolish indeed.

 

[GEddie]

Some of that’s due to legit non-occult books being OOP. One recommended, non-occult title is here:
*
“It might surprise you to learn that tarot cards were created for playing card games and not fortune telling. Indeed, contrary to popular myths, there is nothing occult in their origins. The family of tarot games has been played since the 15th century and continues to be played throughout continental Europe to this day. Sadly, English speakers have usually only heard of tarot in the context of magic and divination.”*
amazon.com/Tarocchi-Introducing-Card-Games-Tarot/dp/1448609720

Non-occult tarot - for card games, not divination - is as acceptable for Catholics as bridge and blackjack and poker.

Correct, but still very rare in NA.

You’d have to make an effort to find the game-card tarot in America; not so the occultic version.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Katherine438]

I never asserted he meditated on it but there is photographic proof from ten years apart that it was on his desk, and the bookshelf right near his desk (out of the hundreds of other ones in the Vatican). All I implied was that clearly he did not find it abominable as he consented to be photographed with those books in the picture several times.

The Pope needs to be aware of all the forms of occult practices … I feel certain that is the only reason he had such books.

 

[BroIgnatius]

I never asserted he meditated on it but there is photographic proof from ten years apart that it was on his desk, and the bookshelf right near his desk (out of the hundreds of other ones in the Vatican). All I implied was that clearly he did not find it abominable as he consented to be photographed with those books in the picture several times.

You do not know why he had it on his desk. He could have disagreed with it. The mere fact he had it does not mean anything more than the Satanic Bible sitting on my desk and New Age books sitting on my bookshelf.

You also assert that he “consented” to be photographed with the book. Again, another unfounded assertion. The book may have just been on his desk at the time. There is no proof that he placed it there on purpose for the photo.

 

[Katherine438]

But surely the Pope would read an occult book if that was the case, not a Catholic one.

I wouldn’t question what the Pope does or does not read.

 

[Dorothy]

The Pope needs to be aware of all the forms of occult practices … I feel certain that is the only reason he had such books.

I agree.

 

[BroIgnatius]

What I’m saying is that argument falls apart. If the Pope wanted to know about occultism, he would read an occult book, not a Catholic one. If I wanted to know about architecture I wouldn’t read a book about geology. They might factor into each other a bit, but they are completely different.

This “book” is not Catholic. It is about esoteric so-called “Catholicism”, which believes in reincarnation and other heresies.

And since one of his almost Cardinals, albeit a dodgy one, wrote a forward to the book, he would likely read it. I know I would. It means nothing.

 

[egretps]

The OP originally mentioned using the Tarot to help one think about decisions.

Something much better:
There are very good youtube videos and books on this process. I came across Rabbi Twerski’s youtube video also on decision making which eventually lead to me discovering something many Catholics have known about for years, St. Ignatius’ method of decision making.
avemariapress.com/engagingfaith/2008/07/st-ignatius-loyola-and-making-good/

Again, I would avoid anything that might be occult.

 

[BroIgnatius]

Ha! That’s the book I recommended that’s caused all of this.

Ya, and that’s the book which speaks positively about reincarnation and is about so-called Hermetism, an esoteric Christianity, of which there is no such thing validly.

These spiritual currents share some common denominators, such as heterodox or heretical Christian theology; the canonical gospels, various apocalyptic literature, and some New Testament apocrypha as sacred texts.

According to all of these esoteric scholars, the ensemble of these techniques (often related with Eastern meditation practices such as chakra meditation or visualization) will lead to salvation and to the total renewal of the human being.

Some Esoteric Christians today also incorporate New Age and traditional “magical” practices in their beliefs, such as Qabalah, theurgy, goetia, alchemy, astrology, and hermeticism.

Many modern Esoteric Christian movements acknowledge reincarnation among their beliefs, as well as a complex energetic structure for the human being (such as etheric body, astral body, mental body and causal body). These movements point out the need of an inner spiritual work which will lead to the renewal of the human person according to the Pauline sense.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_Christianity

Also see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinism

Better to stay with traditional Catholic methods of meditation if one wishes to stay out of trouble. And, if one wishes to ask the cards something, or make decision via the cards, or anything similar, which is what the OP was asking about, then that is divination and a sin against the First Amendment.

 

[dallas_r]

If you really are a Catholic, (lots of people put that, but really are not) then you should know that tarot cards are strictly forbidden. Full stop.
They do not tell you anything about your situation because they are pieces of cardstock.
The devil only needs the slightest invitation to come into your life and warp your thoughts.

Just no.

Yep.

 

[BroIgnatius]

By the way, my current avatar is a tarot card.

It’s the “Art” card from Aleister Crowley’s Thoth Tarot. In other decks it’s called “Temperance”. In both cases it corresponds to the Hebrew letter “samekh” and the path between Yesod and Tiphareth on the Tree of Life.

There is no such thing as a Catholic occultist and no Christian would follow the satanist, Aleister Crowley. The occult is a sin against the First Commandment. You can call yourself a pickle all day not but that is not going to make you one. As Jesus said in Matthew 21-23:

“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’

 

[BroIgnatius]

Crowley was not a Satanist and I don’t follow him. Neither does Tsuzuki. Crowley explicitly said he did not want to “found a flock of sheep.” Also, he founded a school of philosophy and occult science called Thelema. If he was a Satanist, he would have been a Satanist, not a Thelemite. Really, do read a book on or by him. I can’t recommend the Book of the Law enough. Lon Milo DuQuette has written several books on Crowley I would also recommend. Also, since the thought police are going to rain hell on me, I am not a Thelemite. However, Thelemites are not Satanists and I know several Catholic Thelemites, Tsuzuki included.

Crowley is the father of 20th Century Satanism. Also, I have the Book of the Law on my desk. Thelemite’s are not of God and are indeed Satanists. You do not have to say “Hail Satan” to be a Satanist. Crowley claimed to have received The Book of the Law from an entity named Aiwass. That entity was not an angel of God, therefore it was a demon.

No Catholic can be a Thelemite, believe in “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law”, believe in multiple deities, or for that matter be a member of any other religion except Catholic. One cannot do what one pleases and be Christian.

We are not talking about Catholic living here. This thread needs to be removed.

 

[BroIgnatius]

LeVeyan is the father of 20th century Satanism. Crowley is the father of Thelema, which is a philosophy not a religion. “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law” doesn’t mean to what you like it means do what your true will says you should do ie your conscience. Sound like Thomism to anyone else? Also, Crowley himself did not believe in multiple deities. There are very compelling arguments for him being both a monist and an atheist but he was definitely not a polytheist. All of that said, Crowley was not perfect. He had a lot of problems. He was human.

LeVey did not come around until later and is not the Father of Satanism. Let me repeat, Satanism is marked by certain beliefs and philosophies, which does not have to refer to Satan.

Crowley said, "all “questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings”. Well in his commentary on do what one wilt, he said,“I have a right to kill anyone who would thwart my rights.”

And, bubba. All religion is philosophy. Freemasons also like to pretend their views are “just philosophy”

In any event, a Catholic may not adopt any philosophy contrary to Catholic teaching, or be a follower of occult science.

 

[GEddie]

To be Catholic means to accept the teachings of the Church.

The teachings of the Church forbid involvement in occultism.

Therefore, Catholic occultism is a contradiction in terms.

ICXC NIKA

 

[BroIgnatius]

Also where did Crowley say that? Work and page would be wonderful.

The Law is for All, edited by Israel Regardie, Part 3, 60, “Rights of Man” page 321 in my edition.

He begins with “There is no god but Man”. Ya, and his organization is something Catholics should get involved with. NOT!