My best friend and her bf are moving in together

[mdr]

yessisan, are your friend and your sister aware that living together before marriage results in a dramatically higher divorce risk? Yes, they should hear from you in a tactful and loving way that what they are doing is sinful and self-destructive. If their hearts have already hardened against the Gospel, though, they might yet be open to statistical data. Worth a try, anyway

 

[yessisan]

yessisan, are your friend and your sister aware that living together before marriage results in a dramatically higher divorce risk? Yes, they should hear from you in a tactful and loving way that what they are doing is sinful and self-destructive. If their hearts have already hardened against the Gospel, though, they might yet be open to statistical data. Worth a try, anyway

My sister knows but she could care less about God. She’s rebelled against the Church. She doesn’t care about anything the Church says. In fact, I got into an argument with her when she told me she was moving in with this man. She used to live with a Catholic guy in Ohio and they were going to get married but because they lived together, things went sour, and well, they went their own ways. I reminded her of that and she only said I was criticizing her and that I shouldn’t get in her life.

I don’t know if my friend really knows but I’ve talked to her about that before. She probably forgot already. I still have to talk to her.

 

[mamacita]

Yessi,

Since you are her best friend you have every right to talk w/ her about it. If it falls on deaf ears, then so be it. But at least you can say you’ve tried.

As far as the living situation and no proposal, well, I hate to say it but most guys these days think ‘Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free??’ So sad, but it is true.

Keep praying for her but I would also speak to her because like a PP said, you are Christ’s lips in this World.

 

[yessisan]

Well, my friend ended up moving in w/him 2 wks ago, and just as I thought would happen… the (&%&) broke up w/her on Friday night at his parents’ house!!!

He told her he never loved her, that he loves her as he’d love any other person, that he’d never marry her and wouldv’e never had kids w/her!!! Oh, and the (*&%%^$ wouldn’t say this to her sober, he had to get drunk to tell her! He didn’t have enough pants to be a man and face her!

And to top it all, he said he’s “in love” w/his “first love”… which would be his high school girlfriend and who he dated more than 8 yrs ago!

I am soooooooo mad! He went out w/my friend for 5 yrs! Why waste so many yrs of her life like that? I knew all he was about was sex and companionship. I could just throw my shoes at him!!!

We’re going today to get her stuff for the apt they just leased… man! And they just bought the furniture, TOGETHER! With hers and his money… If I see him I swear I’m oing to say something to him…

 

[HouseArrest]

At least it’s over. You don’t think he’ll come back, do you? The next step is sometimes him jerking her around. I hope it doesn’t happen.

 

[yessisan]

At least it’s over. You don’t think he’ll come back, do you? The next step is sometimes him jerking her around. I hope it doesn’t happen.

It has happened. I think this was the last chance he got from my friend, or at least I hope so.

 

[gam3rchic]

Sorry Yessi about your friend!!!

Prayers for her and you!

But at least she has such a good buddy to help pick her up in this tough time!

 

[dad94513]

In order to be true to myself, to God and to my daughter, this is the letter I had to write. It is painful to be separated like this, and to have a once close and loving relationship be torn apart by Satans embrace…

I have waited to write you in order to collect my thoughts, and say what is truly in my heart so that there can be no confusion as to what I want to impart to you.

First let me say that I deeply love you and no father could love a daughter more than I love you.
I have taken my responsibility to be a father, (not a friend) seriously your entire life. I have shared my life with you in every way that I could.

The choice you have made to live with your boyfriend with out marriage is a choice that I neither can condone nor accept. It is contrary to my religious training and belief. It mocks the example your mother and I set before you. It perpetuates the irresponsibility of our society in downgrading our morals. It demeans the commitment of a man and a woman. Finally, and most importantly, IT IS A MORTAL SIN. And to your discredit, you KNOW that.

I taught you at an early age, the answer to the question “ is there anything I can do to that God can’t forgive?” I told you no. Then how do people go to hell?” The answer was, “ you CHOOSE it.”

I have been accused of trying to force you to live your life the way I want you to. How simple if this were true, but it isn’t. This pains me almost as deeply as this situation because it displays the lack of truly knowing me and what I stand for and try to represent.

I did not write the Ten Commandments. I did not impose my will on Church law. I have not bullied my way into our society to create our laws. I have tried to reflect them and taken the position to stand with them, not against them. I have taken sides. I have chosen my convictions. I have reviewed the consequences of taking up sides against these establishments, weighed the issues and made my choice.

You have made a decision and now you will pay the consequences of that choice. A robber who steals and is apprehended and brought to court is sentenced. The robber may say “no fair!” That is not going to change the fact that he will be punished and pay for his deed. He needs to be taught that he can not steal with no consequence to his actions.

When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and were cast out of paradise as the consequence to their choice, I’m sure they were saying “no fair!” They (we) needed to be taught and to learn there are consequences to disobeying God. Is God being a bully? Is God trying force people live the way He wants them to? NO! These are the consequences of OUR defiance.

When a person commits a mortal sin, what do you think happens? Remember, in order to commit a mortal sin, First, it must BE a mortal sin. Second, you know it is a mortal sin. Third, you do it anyway. And what do you think are the consequences of this CHOICE? You SEPARATE YOURSELF from your Father. You chose that, HE doesn’t. It is simply the consequence of your action. You created a void, a vast distance between you and Him. This is ALSO what you done here on earth with your relationship with me. I have not DISOWNED you! You have disowned me. What has occurred in our relationship is the natural outcome of your decision and choice. You should not be shocked. But, I am deeply hurt.
I am also deeply disappointed. I have had to watch the man you have chosen, take away your virtue and innocence, take away your faith, and take away your values. Slowly and surely as I write this, you have given up who you were. Yes, a person changes and evolves (hopefully) as they grow older and usually this is for the better. What affects this are the people we choose to surround ourselves with. You have chosen poorly. You have lost yourself. I know this, because you hid this information. You hid it because, deep down, you were ashamed of it. You knew it was wrong and you knew it would cause disappointment, pain, upset. And you chose it anyway.

I cannot assist you any further. You have chosen a path that leads you away from me. I can not follow. When you turn to your side, I will not be there. My ears can not hear you, as you are to far away. My home is no longer your home.

But know this, that I love you. You have done nothing that I can not forgive. But as long as you stay in this situation, there will be no relationship with me. I would hope that others could have the spirit of conviction and not straddle a fence so as just to appease you because they love you. (Do they?) I know they do, but to what end? As for me, I have chosen my side. I will rejoice upon your return. Your dad.

 

[thomfra]

Sounds like you friend has a fairly well developed sense of what she believes and probably doesn’t need your (name removed by moderator)ut. But I am sure she wouldn’t be mad at your for saying your piece.

I lived with my wife for many years before we got married. I don’t regret it for a second.

 

[PotassiumCl]

I wish some one had cared enough to talk to me. We did marry and have a wonderful marriage, however, I do wish that we had no lived together prior to our marriage. Pray for her and so will I.

 

[Lil_Cat]

In order to be true to myself, to God and to my daughter, this is the letter I had to write. It is painful to be separated like this, and to have a once close and loving relationship be torn apart by Satans embrace…

I have waited to write you in order to collect my thoughts, and say what is truly in my heart so that there can be no confusion as to what I want to impart to you.

First let me say that I deeply love you and no father could love a daughter more than I love you.
I have taken my responsibility to be a father, (not a friend) seriously your entire life. I have shared my life with you in every way that I could.

The choice you have made to live with your boyfriend with out marriage is a choice that I neither can condone nor accept. It is contrary to my religious training and belief. It mocks the example your mother and I set before you. It perpetuates the irresponsibility of our society in downgrading our morals. It demeans the commitment of a man and a woman. Finally, and most importantly, IT IS A MORTAL SIN. And to your discredit, you KNOW that.

I taught you at an early age, the answer to the question “ is there anything I can do to that God can’t forgive?” I told you no. Then how do people go to hell?” The answer was, “ you CHOOSE it.”

I have been accused of trying to force you to live your life the way I want you to. How simple if this were true, but it isn’t. This pains me almost as deeply as this situation because it displays the lack of truly knowing me and what I stand for and try to represent.

I did not write the Ten Commandments. I did not impose my will on Church law. I have not bullied my way into our society to create our laws. I have tried to reflect them and taken the position to stand with them, not against them. I have taken sides. I have chosen my convictions. I have reviewed the consequences of taking up sides against these establishments, weighed the issues and made my choice.

You have made a decision and now you will pay the consequences of that choice. A robber who steals and is apprehended and brought to court is sentenced. The robber may say “no fair!” That is not going to change the fact that he will be punished and pay for his deed. He needs to be taught that he can not steal with no consequence to his actions.

When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and were cast out of paradise as the consequence to their choice, I’m sure they were saying “no fair!” They (we) needed to be taught and to learn there are consequences to disobeying God. Is God being a bully? Is God trying force people live the way He wants them to? NO! These are the consequences of OUR defiance.

When a person commits a mortal sin, what do you think happens? Remember, in order to commit a mortal sin, First, it must BE a mortal sin. Second, you know it is a mortal sin. Third, you do it anyway. And what do you think are the consequences of this CHOICE? You SEPARATE YOURSELF from your Father. You chose that, HE doesn’t. It is simply the consequence of your action. You created a void, a vast distance between you and Him. This is ALSO what you done here on earth with your relationship with me. I have not DISOWNED you! You have disowned me. What has occurred in our relationship is the natural outcome of your decision and choice. You should not be shocked. But, I am deeply hurt.
I am also deeply disappointed. I have had to watch the man you have chosen, take away your virtue and innocence, take away your faith, and take away your values. Slowly and surely as I write this, you have given up who you were. Yes, a person changes and evolves (hopefully) as they grow older and usually this is for the better. What affects this are the people we choose to surround ourselves with. You have chosen poorly. You have lost yourself. I know this, because you hid this information. You hid it because, deep down, you were ashamed of it. You knew it was wrong and you knew it would cause disappointment, pain, upset. And you chose it anyway.

I cannot assist you any further. You have chosen a path that leads you away from me. I can not follow. When you turn to your side, I will not be there. My ears can not hear you, as you are to far away. My home is no longer your home.

But know this, that I love you. You have done nothing that I can not forgive. But as long as you stay in this situation, there will be no relationship with me. I would hope that others could have the spirit of conviction and not straddle a fence so as just to appease you because they love you. (Do they?) I know they do, but to what end? As for me, I have chosen my side. I will rejoice upon your return. Your dad.

I am so sorry for your pain.

 

[thomfra]

In order to be true to myself, to God and to my daughter, this is the letter I had to write. It is painful to be separated like this, and to have a once close and loving relationship be torn apart by Satans embrace…

I have waited to write you in order to collect my thoughts, and say what is truly in my heart so that there can be no confusion as to what I want to impart to you.

First let me say that I deeply love you and no father could love a daughter more than I love you.
I have taken my responsibility to be a father, (not a friend) seriously your entire life. I have shared my life with you in every way that I could.

The choice you have made to live with your boyfriend with out marriage is a choice that I neither can condone nor accept. It is contrary to my religious training and belief. It mocks the example your mother and I set before you. It perpetuates the irresponsibility of our society in downgrading our morals. It demeans the commitment of a man and a woman. Finally, and most importantly, IT IS A MORTAL SIN. And to your discredit, you KNOW that.

I taught you at an early age, the answer to the question “ is there anything I can do to that God can’t forgive?” I told you no. Then how do people go to hell?” The answer was, “ you CHOOSE it.”

I have been accused of trying to force you to live your life the way I want you to. How simple if this were true, but it isn’t. This pains me almost as deeply as this situation because it displays the lack of truly knowing me and what I stand for and try to represent.

I did not write the Ten Commandments. I did not impose my will on Church law. I have not bullied my way into our society to create our laws. I have tried to reflect them and taken the position to stand with them, not against them. I have taken sides. I have chosen my convictions. I have reviewed the consequences of taking up sides against these establishments, weighed the issues and made my choice.

You have made a decision and now you will pay the consequences of that choice. A robber who steals and is apprehended and brought to court is sentenced. The robber may say “no fair!” That is not going to change the fact that he will be punished and pay for his deed. He needs to be taught that he can not steal with no consequence to his actions.

When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and were cast out of paradise as the consequence to their choice, I’m sure they were saying “no fair!” They (we) needed to be taught and to learn there are consequences to disobeying God. Is God being a bully? Is God trying force people live the way He wants them to? NO! These are the consequences of OUR defiance.

When a person commits a mortal sin, what do you think happens? Remember, in order to commit a mortal sin, First, it must BE a mortal sin. Second, you know it is a mortal sin. Third, you do it anyway. And what do you think are the consequences of this CHOICE? You SEPARATE YOURSELF from your Father. You chose that, HE doesn’t. It is simply the consequence of your action. You created a void, a vast distance between you and Him. This is ALSO what you done here on earth with your relationship with me. I have not DISOWNED you! You have disowned me. What has occurred in our relationship is the natural outcome of your decision and choice. You should not be shocked. But, I am deeply hurt.
I am also deeply disappointed. I have had to watch the man you have chosen, take away your virtue and innocence, take away your faith, and take away your values. Slowly and surely as I write this, you have given up who you were. Yes, a person changes and evolves (hopefully) as they grow older and usually this is for the better. What affects this are the people we choose to surround ourselves with. You have chosen poorly. You have lost yourself. I know this, because you hid this information. You hid it because, deep down, you were ashamed of it. You knew it was wrong and you knew it would cause disappointment, pain, upset. And you chose it anyway.

I cannot assist you any further. You have chosen a path that leads you away from me. I can not follow. When you turn to your side, I will not be there. My ears can not hear you, as you are to far away. My home is no longer your home.

But know this, that I love you. You have done nothing that I can not forgive. But as long as you stay in this situation, there will be no relationship with me. I would hope that others could have the spirit of conviction and not straddle a fence so as just to appease you because they love you. (Do they?) I know they do, but to what end? As for me, I have chosen my side. I will rejoice upon your return. Your dad.

You might want to discuss you plan of action with a priest before you send that letter.

I don’t think it is a particulary good idea. I don’t think many priests would either.

 

[rotlex]

Sounds like you friend has a fairly well developed sense of what she believes and probably doesn’t need your (name removed by moderator)ut. But I am sure she wouldn’t be mad at your for saying your piece.

I lived with my wife for many years before we got married. I don’t regret it for a second.

I agree with this. My wife and I also lived together for a few years before marrying. Was it wrong? Maybe. Would I do it again? Maybe.

While I love these boards, the one thing that can sometimes push me over the edge when reading, is the attitude of some. There is what we want to be real, and then there is reality. My reality, is while I loved her dearly, I think in the back of both of our minds, the commitment of marriage at the time was still in question. We both knew that once we said our vows, we would be together forever, and did not want to break that.

We will be celebrating our 19th wedding anniversary this year. Are we any worse off for having lived together first? I doubt it.

Let me also state that I am not trying to say I think it is right. I have confessed this in the past, to both my priest, myself, and to God. I’m just saying that people do things. They sometimes need to. Do not condemn someone when you may truly not know there circumstances. We are not to judge, as too many here do. That is left to someone a bit higher up on the scale than us.

 

[dad94513]

That is why we have such an immoral society as we do. According to your thinking, “people just do what they do…” According to your thinking, we shouldn’t judge but leave that up to God. When DO you stand up? When DO you take issue? When DO YOU say ENOUGH! According to you, we should be free and easy, do what you want (as long as we don’t hurt anybody) and everyone else should just chill. Did it ever occur to you that you were hurting your future wifes soul? hurting your own? Did it ever occur to you that you were breaking the commandment of Honor your mother and father? Why should we have ANY laws? Why should there be any consequences to our actions? What was God’s problem anyway? Adam and Eve just ate a apple! What is the big deal. I’m sorry for you, the devil still has blinders on you. I tend to believe you justify other sins in your life as well or at least minimize them. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but you are reflecting only what society has told you is ok.

 

[rotlex]

That is why we have such an immoral society as we do. According to your thinking, “people just do what they do…” According to your thinking, we shouldn’t judge but leave that up to God. When DO you stand up? When DO you take issue? When DO YOU say ENOUGH! According to you, we should be free and easy, do what you want (as long as we don’t hurt anybody) and everyone else should just chill. Did it ever occur to you that you were hurting your future wifes soul? hurting your own? Did it ever occur to you that you were breaking the commandment of Honor your mother and father? Why should we have ANY laws? Why should there be any consequences to our actions? What was God’s problem anyway? Adam and Eve just ate a apple! What is the big deal. I’m sorry for you, the devil still has blinders on you. I tend to believe you justify other sins in your life as well or at least minimize them. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but you are reflecting only what society has told you is ok.

Wow, if that was in respnonse to my posting, you really didn’t read it did you? If not, please disregard.

Reflecting on what society has told me is OK? Maybe 20+ years ago. Things change, people change our thoughts on everything changes. Realizing those mistakes, and working to correct them is what it’s all about.

Again, sometimes the “holier than tho” attitude of a lot of folks is, IMO, a bigger tragedy than what many claim to be mortal sin.

 

[pumpkinbeast]

Again, sometimes the “holier than tho” attitude of a lot of folks is, IMO, a bigger tragedy than what many claim to be mortal sin.

The issue isn’t ‘holier than thou’. The issue is about RIGHT and WRONG. It is WRONG to live with someone you are in a relationship with but not married to. That’s the bottom line. We can’t judge the state of the people’s souls involved, that’s true. But we CAN and MUST judge individual ACTIONS. In each sin, there are a few pieces involved: the action itself, the knowledge of the person involved, and the intention or will of the person involved. The ‘thou shalt not judge’ part applies to the knowledge and will of the person involved. We DO NOT KNOW what is going on in each person’s heart or mind, so we can’t judge that part of the sin. HOWEVER, when we know the ACTION, we can judge that. There are good, neutral, and bad actions.

A good example of this breakdown is murder: killing someone is an EVIL action. BUT, the murderer might have some sort of mental issue that negates their free will, and therefore may not have sinned. We don’t know, we can’t judge, only God can. Or, perhaps someone is killed because they ran out in front of a car and there was nothing the driver could do. The INTENTION to kill was not there, so the driver did not sin.

The original issue of this thread was living together before marriage: living in a house with another person is neutral, I think. BUT, if you are in a romantic relationship with that other person and you are NOT married, your actions fall under the sin of scandal. We can’t know whether you know that or not, so we can’t judge the state of your soul. BUT we can know that your ACTIONS are wrong.

My last point, and a very important one: Things are sins because they hurt us. God isn’t trying to keep people from having fun, or make life more difficult, He wants to protect us. This is why He gave us Jesus, the Bible, and the Church, so that we could know what is wrong and harmful, so we could avoid it. If someone was about to touch a hot burner, you would tell them they were going to burn themselves, right? It’s the same way when someone is going to do something wrong. It may or may not be a sin, depending on their intentions and their knowledge, but it will still HURT them. So it is a good thing to gently inform people of this, if they don’t know they are doing something wrong.

To sum up: It is NOT about ‘holier than thou’ it is about helping and protecting other people from hurting themselves and others.

 

[dad94513]

Did I think it was wrong? maybe…would I do it again? maybe. Are we any worse off? Probably not…I confessed it to my priest…I am not holier than you…far from that. I am, However, challenging you. Your statements are from a person who is standing on sand. MAYBE!

 

[M0nkey]

Again, sometimes the “holier than tho” attitude of a lot of folks is, IMO, a bigger tragedy than what many claim to be mortal sin.

I’m sorry, I hate to step in like this, but it is MORTAL SIN and you don’t get any say whether according to you, it’s right or not. When my wife and I were dating we did not officially live together. She told me straight up she did not want to live together before we got married, and I respected that, even thou at the time I did not think it was such a big deal. She also hinted at the fact that she did not want to have sex until we got married and I respected that. I think that if you really love someone you want what’s best for them, and doing what’s best has to be joined with what God thinks’ it’s best for your significant other. Like I said, my convictions were not very clear on this issue at the time, but I *sensed *that her decisions on this were right on and she was right.

 

[rotlex]

Did I think it was wrong? maybe…would I do it again? maybe. Are we any worse off? Probably not…I confessed it to my priest…I am not holier than you…far from that. I am, However, challenging you. Your statements are from a person who is standing on sand. MAYBE!

Challenging me for what? You seem quite angry, for what reason, I do not know. You also seem to selectivly read into things what you wish. I feel sorry for you for that. My original post was simply stating my feelings, past and present.

I apologize for posting in this thread. It appears all I have done is upset someone, when my intentions were not to do so. My thoughts, simply in then end I guess, is that we all try to live our lives as best we can. Yes, we make mistakes along the way, yes, we work to correct them and hopefully prevent others from commiting those same sins\mistakes, but in the long run, we must all choose for ourselves the correct path.

For some of us, it has simply taken a bit longer than it should have.

 

[rotlex]

I’m sorry, I hate to step in like this, but it is MORTAL SIN and you don’t get any say whether according to you, it’s right or not. When my wife and I were dating we did not officially live together. She told me straight up she did not want to live together before we got married, and I respected that, even thou at the time I did not think it was such a big deal. She also hinted at the fact that she did not want to have sex until we got married and I respected that. I think that if you really love someone you want what’s best for them, and doing what’s best has to be joined with what God thinks’ it’s best for your significant other. Like I said, my convictions were not very clear on this issue at the time, but I *sensed *that her decisions on this were right on and she was right.

Again, someone who takes words out of context. I did not say living together was NOT mortal sin. Think before you post, or become angry. I simply stated, in general terms not directed at anyone, that there are more than a few people I know who like to judge others before at times looking at themselves. I was judging know one, or making no statements regarding what is and what is not sin.

I’ll bow out now, again, apologizing for having upset anyone. I guess many here are just a bit too sensitive. No reason to take anything personally. We are all here to learn. But in order to do that, we must first understand what it is we read.