My body, My choice

[phil_at_dayboro]

This I believe is a short, beautiful quotation that sets out our belief in the dignity of Man in the eyes of God and why we do not have the right to end what we don not own or cannot give.
However, we must be aware of the secular arguments that put us at the same level as the whales etc. and sees no issue with ending a life of misery. This is often founded in compassion and love and is very difficult to counter at a purely empirical level.
The only argument that I think might give people cause to think is the slippery slope argument, especially with regard to assisted euthanasia.
If we destroy all those that need our care and love then we diminish our community, and reinforce the individualism and isolation that our culture seems to encourage.
However as a Catholic we have no right to act contrary to the will of God in determining the hour of our death.

True,., I don’t think anyone is encouraging wholesale wiping out of Retirement homes,
Or palliative care Facilities , but rather individual cases , and yes it can become a slippery slope , but in holland where euthanasia is practiced ,there are very strict guidelines to protect the vulnerable people from greedy relatives wanting inheritances ,
Like I had said earlier,it is a tough Question,

 

[Petaro]

True,., I don’t think anyone is encouraging wholesale wiping out of Retirement homes,
Or palliative care Facilities , but rather individual cases , and yes it can become a slippery slope , but in holland where euthanasia is practiced ,there are very strict guidelines to protect the vulnerable people from greedy relatives wanting inheritances ,
Like I had said earlier,it is a tough Question,

The Remmelink Report– On September 10, 1991, the results of the first, official government study of the practice of Dutch euthanasia were released. The two volume report (6)–popularly referred to as the Remmelink Report (after Professor J. Remmelink, M.J., attorney general of the High Council of the Netherlands, who headed the study committee)–documents the prevalence ofinvoluntary euthanasia in Holland, as well as the fact that, to a large degree, doctors have taken over end-of-life decision making regarding euthanasia. The data indicate that, despite long-standing, court-approved euthanasia guidelines developed to protect patients, abuse has become an accepted norm. According to the Remmelink Report, in 1990:

2,300 people died as the result of doctors killing them upon request (active, voluntary euthanasia).(7)
400 people died as a result of doctors providing them with the means to kill themselves (physician-assisted suicide).(8)
1,040 people (an average of 3 per day) died from involuntary euthanasia, meaning that doctors actively killed these patients without the patients’ knowledge or consent.(9)
14% of these patients were fully competent. (10)
72% had never given any indication that they would want their lives terminated. (11)
In 8% of the cases, doctors performed involuntary euthanasia despite the fact that they believed alternative options were still possible. (12)
In addition, 8,100 patients died as a result of doctors deliberately giving them overdoses of pain medication, not for the primary purpose of controlling pain, but to hasten the patient’s death. (13) In 61% of these cases (4,941 patients), the intentional overdose was given without the patient’s consent.(14)
According to the Remmelink Report, Dutch physicians deliberately and intentionally ended the lives of 11,840 people by lethal overdoses or injections–a figure which accounts for 9.1% of the annual overall death rate of 130,000 per year. The majority of all euthanasia deaths in Holland are involuntary deaths.
The Remmelink Report figures cited here do not include thousands of other cases, also reported in the study, in which life-sustaining treatment was withheld or withdrawn without the patient’s consent and with the intention of causing the patient’s death. (15) Nor do the figures include cases of involuntary euthanasia performed on disabled newborns, children with life-threatening conditions, or psychiatric patients. (16)
The most frequently cited reasons given for ending the lives of patients without their knowledge or consent were: “low quality of life,” “no prospect for improvement,” and “the family couldn’t take it anymore.”(17)
In 45% of cases involving hospitalized patients who were involuntarily euthanized, the patients’ families had no knowledge that their loved ones’ lives were deliberately terminated by doctors. (18)
6. Medical Decisions About the End of Life, I. Report of the Committee to Study the Medical Practice Concerning Euthanasia. II. The Study for the Committee on Medical Practice Concerning Euthanasia (2 vols.), The Hague, September 19, 1991. Hereafter cited asReport I and Report II, respectively.
7. Report I, p. 13.
8. Ibid.
9. Ibid.,p. 15.
10. Report II, p.49, table 6.4.
11. Ibid., p.50, table 6.6.
12. Ibid., table 6.5.
13. Ibid., p. 58, table 7.2.
14. Ibid., p. 72.
15. Ibid.
16. Report I, pp. 17-18.
17. Report II, p. 52, table 6.7.
18. Ibid., table 6.8.
In July 1992, the Dutch Pediatric Association announced that it was issuing formal guidelines for killing severely handicapped newborns. Dr. Zier Versluys, chairman of the association’s Working Group on Neonatal Ethics, said that “Both for the parents and the children, an early death is better than life.” Dr. Versluys also indicated that euthanasia is an integral part of good medical practice in relation to newborn babies. Doctors would judge if a baby’s “quality of life” is such that the baby should be killed.
A 2/15/93 statement released by the Dutch Justice Ministry proposed extending the court-approved, euthanasia guidelines to formally include “active medical intervention to cut short life without an express request.” Liesbeth Rensman, a spokesperson for the Ministry, said that this would be the first step toward the official sanctioning of euthanasia for those who cannot ask for it, particularly psychiatric patients and handicapped newborns.

Res ipso loquitor. It is indeed a hard question. And many will walk away from others as they are too hard, just as the words of eternal life were too hard for so many. AMDG

 

[friardchips]

I think that powerofk, vsedriver, then Petaro summed everything up positively in their posts.

To add, I wonder myself if we rely too much on our own arguments, and maybe listening and praying for those individuals who carry the cross of pain and suffering may be the way to change their hearts, on a one to one basis. Maybe Catholics are being called to go and meet these people for this reason?

 

[Faustinaed]

Petaro, Holy wah! That study you posted is jam packed with information, and very helpful. I knew that euthanasia could bring problems, but never realized how big of a problem it turned into.

There are some wonderful responses here, and friardchips, you make a good point in maybe we need to be visiting more of these people.

I don’t think I will ever comprehend the thought that taking someone’s life or your own life because you don’t feel worthy etc. I guess I can begin by praying for the people I had the conversation with, pray they have a conversion of heart, (God willing).

 

[Tigg]

Yes, and Christ died that SAME DAY…sure he suffered, but he also died on the same day, I have known a few older people with terminal illnesses that I have watched die VERY SLOWLY, takes months and sometimes years of DAILY suffering, day and night, sometimes the pain is so bad they cant sleep, so they suffer every minute of every day! This is not right, if they have NO POSSIBLE hope of getting better, and this is verified, then I dont think we should allow that kind of suffering to continue, and really, we should wonder why God is allowing it to go on for so long, he is not supposed to give someone more than they can bear, but since many many people have committed suicide due pain, we know for a fact, they did receive more than they could bear, as they killed themselves, what more proof does anyone need?!

Pain management has taken great strides in the last few years and because I used to volunteer at a hospice center, I can say most were able to achieve relief even in the final stages of dying. Suffering is redemptive when one loves the Lord and submits to His will. I just recently posted this, but here it is again. In a homily, a former pastor once told us how difficult it was for him as a young boy to watch his mother die of a very painful cancer. The mother knew of her children’s agony and heartbreak, but she encouraged them by saying the cancer was God’s way of allowing her to make reparation for her sins so she could be in heaven forever. Now THAT is faith!

Why should we ever question why God allows what He does? Euthanasia is completely antithetical to the Christian message of eternal salvation and hope and speaks only of despair. You think it not right that God allows suffering and sickness and death? Let me ask you, since you question HIS goodness and infinite compassion and mercy, *WHERE *were **you when He made the world? Have you been His counselor? Can you control the sea and the wind and send lightning bolts from heaven? Do the stars report to you and say, “here we are.” Have you **walked the recesses of the deep and given orders to the morning? These are all thoughts from scripture. And I’ll say it again…what is needed is faith.

 

[Mark121359]

Yes, and Christ died that SAME DAY…sure he suffered, but he also died on the same day, I have known a few older people with terminal illnesses that ***I have watched die VERY SLOWLY, takes months and sometimes years of DAILY suffering, day and night, sometimes the pain is so bad they cant sleep, so they suffer every minute of every day! ***This is not right, if they have NO POSSIBLE hope of getting better, and this is verified, then I dont think we should allow that kind of suffering to continue, and really, we should wonder why God is allowing it to go on for so long, he is not supposed to give someone more than they can bear, but since many many people have committed suicide due pain, we know for a fact, they did receive more than they could bear, as they killed themselves, what more proof does anyone need?!

It saddens me to see Catholics talk about suffering in such a way. You should read about St. Therese of Lisieux and her last three months on this earth. She suffered intense, and I mean extremely intense pains in the final stages of tuberculosis which had destroyed her right lung completely, and had affected the lower third of her left lung. This disease had spread throughout her entire body including her intestines which had turned gangrenous. Here this young nun lay dying of tuberculosis, and was not permitted the use of any pain killers whatsoever. And yet this young Saint never once complained. In fact, it was her who got her sisters (three of her blood sisters, Pauline, Marie, Celine Martin were all in the Carmel with her), and the rest of the community through these difficult days with her constant good humor and upbeat spirit! She laughed and made others laugh. Sr. Marie of the Eucharist (St. Therese’ cousin) writes about this in a letter to her father; “Then she began amusing herself talking about everything that would happen after her death. She did this in such a way that where there should have been weeping, there were peals of laughter, so amusing was she…She passes everything in review; this is her joy and she shares it with us in words that make us laugh. She’s so cheerful, I think she’ll die laughing.” And she did all of this when she was passing through extreme physical pain and internal darkness. Ah yes, let’s not forget that intense spiritual darkness which had invaded her soul. Her first symptoms of physical illness started on Holy Thursday night, 1896. Her spiritual darkness started three days later on Easter Sunday, and lasted all the way through the entire duration of this illness, until her death! St. Therese had this to say about her darkness;

"Jesus permitted my soul to be invaded by the thickest darkness, and that the thought of heaven, up until then so sweet to me, be no longer anything but the cause of struggle and torment. This trial was to last not a few days or a few weeks, it was not to be extinguished until the hour set by God Himself and this hour has not yet come. I would like to be able to express what I feel, but alas! I believe this is impossible. One would have to travel through this dark tunnel to understand this darkness."
…"Then suddenly the fog that surrounds me becomes more dense; it penetrates my soul and envelops it in such a way that it is impossible to discover within it the sweet image of my Fatherland; everything has disappeared! When I want to rest my heart fatigued by the darkness that surrounds it by the memory of the luminous country after which I aspire, my torment redoubles; it seems to me that the darkness, borrowing the voice of sinners, says mockingly to me: “You are dreaming about the light, about a fatherland embalmed in the sweetest perfumes; you are dreaming about the eternal possession of the Creator of all these marvels; you believe that one day you will walk out of this fog that surrounds you! Advance, advance; rejoice in death which will give you not what you hope for but a night still more profound, the night of nothingness.”

There is a powerful lesson to be learned from this Saint on how to embrace suffering! When I think of the particulars of this terrible suffering that she had to deal with, the slow suffocation that she was experiencing, the severe pains that wracked her frail body, with no pain killers whatsoever to alleviate these intense pains, all that, plus this dense fog that enveloped her spiritually…I can’t help but to simply marvel at this young lady! Jesus said; *“Take up your cross and follow me." *And it’s been said that the Cross of our Lord Jesus is inseparable from the life of a Christian. Little Therese has lived this to near perfection. I too used to have fears about suffering. But reading about the Saints, and their sufferings has greatly alleviated that fear. And this Saint, Therese of Lisieux, has played a ***huge ***role in this. For the greater part of my life, I had absolute zero interest in her. But reading about her changed all that. She has completely won over my heart, and I am grateful to God for her!

Peace, Mark

 

[BiffRuffle]

If someone wants to end their life, do we really have the right to use physical force to stop them from doing so?

Yes. Police do it all the time.

 

[freeRadical]

Yes. Police do it all the time.

Just because police do it doesn’t mean it is right.

 

[Ubenedictus]

Relativism is the only reason Catholicism is tolerated in modern society isn’t it? Would you prefer to live in a world where the majority enforced their world view on the minority? Because if so you’d be living in a worldwide Fundamentalist/Islamic Theocracy right now where belief in the real presence would get you put to death.

so that make relativism a great idea?

 

[Ubenedictus]

Yes, and Christ died that SAME DAY…sure he suffered, but he also died on the same day, I have known a few older people with terminal illnesses that I have watched die VERY SLOWLY, takes months and sometimes years of DAILY suffering, day and night, sometimes the pain is so bad they cant sleep, so they suffer every minute of every day! This is not right, if they have NO POSSIBLE hope of getting better, and this is verified, then I dont think we should allow that kind of suffering to continue, and really, we should wonder why God is allowing it to go on for so long, he is not supposed to give someone more than they can bear, but since many many people have committed suicide due pain, we know for a fact, they did receive more than they could bear, as they killed themselves, what more proof does anyone need?!

with the flawed reasoning above you’ll have me believe that we sin because grace wasn’t enough…
Every time we screw up it must be because God isn’t doing his job…

Man has the capacity for slow and prolonged suffering as seen in the lives of many saints, if he will by faith cling to God then he certainly will find consolation, hope and even fulfilment therein.

Suffering is not a justified reason for suicide. It isn’t just there as punishment… It is redemptive, for the christain it has a profound meaning. Even when there is no hope for recovery…it is still human life…it is still valuable…and that life is still worth living.

 

[Tigg]

It saddens me to see Catholics talk about suffering in such a way.

Secular and atheistic philosophy has permeated society so strongly that it appears to have suffocated the very light within man’s soul. Some, apparently, believe the body is primary, and although it too, will be glorified, it is the soul which comprises heart and mind and intellect - it is our consciousness and the very essential component that makes us human and it is **that **which is indestructible, no matter our decaying bodies.

Ah yes, let’s not forget that intense spiritual darkness which had invaded her soul. Her first symptoms of physical illness started on Holy Thursday night, 1896. Her spiritual darkness started three days later on Easter Sunday, and lasted all the way through the entire duration of this illness, until her death!

Thanks for reminding us of this, Mark. How intense and perhaps how much more agonizing was the spiritual desolation suffered by a soul who loved God to the extreme.

Euthanasia is a reasoning born wholly from principles of the world and we can only praise God all the more for our belief. How utterly hopeless would life on earth be with all it’s pain, disappointment and trials (which all are subject to) without the promise of a happiness mankind cannot even begin to imagine. Me? I’m just passin’ through and this world is but a temporary stop along the way to my real destination. And I have absolutely no right at all to determine exactly when I will reach my homecoming.

 

[Faustinaed]

So all this is helpful on euthanasia, but how can we tell someone that is slipping into dementia that it is better to suffer through it rather than the whole family watch a person who was very active slip away into nothingness? How can we show that even though it is your body, that it is wrong to OD on sleeping pills etc.

It falls on the same argument they use for many things, like gay sex or abortion 'my body my choice" and you can’t tell them what to do with their bodies.

It is difficult to explain the hidden beauty in suffering to non-christians.

But one thing i can think of is this: greater good can come out of it, and the proof is in things like a broken family coming together to care for a dying parent. Reuniting of siblings who have parted ways. Maybe it is to teach us humility, or to give us an opportunity to slow down and force us to meet with God. Maybe those around us need a lesson in how to care for others before themselves. Maybe our suffering could help in research opportunities so others won’t have to suffer through it.

Any other ideas?

 

[Jobis]

Euthanasia is a very costly practice; so much money can go into palliative care instead of Euthanasia where it is prohibited. Instead of focusing on death, shouldn’t we aim to reduce suffering and make LIFE easier for people suffering terminal illness?

CS Lewis spoke of suffering as ‘God’s megaphone’ I think; we are driven in our pain to search for the divine, and as we see from the saints, God does not ignore a creature in pain.

Some people would put their unhappy relatives to death, but Catholics ought to minister to them, pray and care for them in their pain and suffering.

 

[Thorns]

If you allow Euthanasia you have to consider all the by products of it. People can be coerced or talked into suicide for malicious reasons, people begin to see life as good only if you’re capable of contributing which opens the door wide.open for eugenics, people can outright be murdered and a suspect can claim they were simply Euthanizing, etc. It gets too messy

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Atheism and selfishness are indelibly linked. If there is no God, any reasons to do ‘good’ for goodness’ sake are easily and reasonably discarded with. Only selfish actions are reasonable. Even apparently ‘loving’ acts can only be rooted in selfishness (“I do good only when it suits me, makes me feel good”). “My body” is such a concept rooted in selfishness, by it’s very nature. “Mine! Not yours!” is always a naturally selfish response.

People, however, have an innate desire to love and be loved, even if they claim to be atheist. Especially those who are claiming to be acting in the best interest of others. “What is the MOST loving thing you can do?” It is in answering that question that we find morality, and therefore true goodness. Is it the most loving thing to do to keep anyone from any suffering? If so, then do parents who remove all of their children’s sufferings love them the most? Contrary, those parents who love their children THE MOST do not back down from supporting their children’s suffering and the good that it does. “Do your chores”, “Go to school”, “Do your homework”, “Take that back to the store you stole it from and confess your theft”, “If you get caught drunk driving, I am not going to come bail you out”, are all expressions of love by parents that know that suffering is important and ‘builds character’ and maturity. We all know that parents who DON’T insist on their children experiencing sufferings really don’t care.

If challenges, hard work, commitment in the face of long odds, overcoming adversity, and ‘no pain, no gain’ all ‘build character’ and maturity, what kind of parent would want to remove these opportunities from their children?

“Without sacrifice, there is no love. The greater the sacrifice, the greater the love. When love truly exists, sacrifice follows.” To NOT expect your children to make sacrifices is saying that you believe that they don’t love you or themselves. To remove the opportunity for them to sacrifice is you saying that you do NOT love them.