My boyfriend won't let us raise our future children in the church

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This is an example of how Catholics are facing extinction by atheists if this continues to happen.

This guy trolls Christians on the internet for fun? What kind of person does that?
 
Well, firstly, it’s heartening that he’s at least trying not to be a boor. Thank God for small mercies.

Secondly, if it really is the dilemma you characterize it to be, see your priest. Believe me, he’s probably seen your type of situation a million times.
 
Please stop living with him get rid of him he is no good for you or any future children that you might have.
 
bananas11 said:
Hi there,
I usually google things relating to my problems for solutions, but for the first time, I couldn’t find anything that quite fit my situation.
My boyfriend and I have been together for about 10 months now. We have been best friends for almost 3 years, while crushing on each other ever since :). We have been living together for about three months. I am a Catholic. I’m not as devout as I should be, but I have an unbreakable faith and I believe in and love God with all of my heart.
My boyfriend likes to call himself an “agnostic atheist”. This is fine with me. I have respect for people of all religions. I don’t argue or debate or push my religion on anyone. However, when I get married, no matter who I marry, I plan on baptizing my children, bringing them to church with me, and putting them in Sunday school.
Our relationship is solid. Neither of us have ever had any reason not to trust each other. We inspire each other, play and make each other laugh all of the time, are physically crazy about each other, and have just about everything else in common. Living with him has been absolute heaven… but there’s just one problem we have.
I know it isn’t 100% going to come true, though I’d like it to, but we have often discussed getting married in a few years. In fact I can’t imagine being with anyone else. He is literally the man of my dreams. We both really want kids, and we basically act married now. But he thinks that my religion, or rather the belief in God or anything supernatural at all is unhealthy. For one, he doesn’t want to do with whole Santa Clause/Easter bunny thing. That’s something I’ve always looked forward to do for my kids. He thinks it will encourage them to believe in magic and not be logical. He doesn’t want to put our future kids in Sunday school. He says I can take them to church if I let him tell them what he believes. Normally I would compromise, but I know just what he will say to our children.
He often goes onto certain websites and debates- rather starts fights with other Christians or those who believe in God and the bible. He does this in front of me. I try not to look, but when he’s not home I get curious and google. He dares Christians to come up with any evidence at all. Some of them have some, but of course, he’ll never accept it. He subtlety insults everyone he debates with and tries to belittle them and make them feel uneducated and weak. They can hold their own, but when they do, he gets nastier and nastier. The things he calls them and the condescending way he speaks to them hurts my feelings. I believe in the same things, after all. He claims that the people he debates with aren’t like Catholics, but does it matter when he is debating the existence of Jesus and validity of the Bible?
I have no plans to convince him, as it cannot be done. All I can do is pray. But if he plans on telling the kids that mom is crazy and they don’t have to get up early on Sundays and they don’t have to take the time out of their fun lives to pray, and that can take the easy way out because the religion telling them to do these things is false, I would end up hating him.
Everything else is perfect. I know he is my soul mate, but I feel this slowly eating away at us, and I have insisted that we wait a few years to talk about it, because I am happy and I’m afraid I’ll end up leaving him if the conversation gets too far, but somehow it keeps coming up.
I’m not willing to bend on how I’m going to raise my future kids. But neither is he.
Any advice?
Thanks so much!
Click to expand...
My advice? Stop letting him use you as his starter wife and playground and find someone who will give you everything you deserve.
 
bananas11 said:
I spoke to him more last night about how I feel about my kids’ souls and how important it is to me that they get to heaven. He bent. He said he will go to church with us, and he said that Sunday school is fine. but that if they ever go to him and ask what he believes, he will tell them. He also swore that he would do so in a way that would not compromise their respect for me. We still have a long way to go, but it’s progress, at least.
As for us living together, I know it is against the church, but that’s not what I am seeking advice for, and it is only Jesus who can judge me. But I do appreciate all of your comments. They are definitely getting me thinking!
👍
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I hate to say things such as this but…

Your kids soul is important to you? Then being a living example would be what would be best for them. What you are teaching them, by example, is “Love God and be a good Catholic, unless it gets in the way of what you want, then you can bend the rules because everyone sins”

You also say that only God can judge you. You are correct, and you also admit that you are intentionally going against God and the Church.

Good luck with your relationship, you will be in my prayers today. I hope I didnt come off as rude, I have your best interest in mind.
 
LoveEveryone said:
I hate to say things such as this but…

Your kids soul is important to you? Then being a living example would be what would be best for them. What you are teaching them, by example, is “Love God and be a good Catholic, unless it gets in the way of what you want, then you can bend the rules because everyone sins”

You also say that only God can judge you. You are correct, and you also admit that you are intentionally going against God and the Church.

Good luck with your relationship, you will be in my prayers today. I hope I didnt come off as rude, I have your best interest in mind.
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This and a million times this^

OP, I also am not trying to be rude to you: I honestly don’t understand how you can say how important your kids’ souls are when you’re doing things now that would obviously be detrimental to their spiritual health later. If you’re intending to raise them Catholic, how would you explain why premarital sex, living together before marriage, and marrying someone who does not believe the same and would not try to get you to heaven is not okay, when you’re doing these things yourself? Wouldn’t you WANT them to marry someone who respects them in all aspects, and who wants to get them to heaven? If you want these for your children, why do you not want them for yourself? Because you are a child of God, who certainly wants you to be respected as such, and to get to Him in heaven! Same for the man who will be your husband! And again, if the kids’ souls are important, wouldn’t you want a husband who thought that way too?

And I don’t understand, why people say “only Jesus can judge me” when they know they are going against what He’s said. I can’t help but feel that it’s like thinking you’ll get a free pass to do what you want, because judgement is postponed until we die. Isn’t that scarier? We are given our lifetime to do what’s right to the best of our ability, to the point where we can honestly say at the end, I have done all I can; after death there is nothing you can do to make up for sins committed.

If Jesus asks you “Why didn’t you follow Me?”
Will you tell Him “But I loved him!” (him being the boyfriend you chose over Jesus).
And what will you say when Jesus answers “I died for you. I knew you before you were born. I loved you more.”
Will you say His love wasn’t good enough?

You say you’ve been married before, only you got an annulment, so it seems to me, that no, you have not been married before. That annulment said there was no marriage to begin with. So I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. Is it because you want to wait for marriage? That’s perfectly fine. But don’t make a previous experience an excuse to be living in a manner that is contradictory to your faith!

In the end, you have been given great advice by so many people. No one here has said to stay him. Everyone here has said what they said because they honestly care about you.

There’s really nothing else for people to say.

I apologize if I came across as rude, and hope that you will sooner rather than later, take to heart what everyone has said, even if they said that same thing in different ways.

God bless you.
 
bananas11 said:
Hi there,
I usually google things relating to my problems for solutions, but for the first time, I couldn’t find anything that quite fit my situation.
My boyfriend and I have been together for about 10 months now. We have been best friends for almost 3 years, while crushing on each other ever since :). We have been living together for about three months. I am a Catholic. I’m not as devout as I should be, but I have an unbreakable faith and I believe in and love God with all of my heart.
My boyfriend likes to call himself an “agnostic atheist”. This is fine with me. I have respect for people of all religions. I don’t argue or debate or push my religion on anyone. However, when I get married, no matter who I marry, I plan on baptizing my children, bringing them to church with me, and putting them in Sunday school.
Our relationship is solid. Neither of us have ever had any reason not to trust each other. We inspire each other, play and make each other laugh all of the time, are physically crazy about each other, and have just about everything else in common. Living with him has been absolute heaven… but there’s just one problem we have.
I know it isn’t 100% going to come true, though I’d like it to, but we have often discussed getting married in a few years. In fact I can’t imagine being with anyone else. He is literally the man of my dreams. We both really want kids, and we basically act married now. But he thinks that my religion, or rather the belief in God or anything supernatural at all is unhealthy. For one, he doesn’t want to do with whole Santa Clause/Easter bunny thing. That’s something I’ve always looked forward to do for my kids. He thinks it will encourage them to believe in magic and not be logical. He doesn’t want to put our future kids in Sunday school. He says I can take them to church if I let him tell them what he believes. Normally I would compromise, but I know just what he will say to our children.
He often goes onto certain websites and debates- rather starts fights with other Christians or those who believe in God and the bible. He does this in front of me. I try not to look, but when he’s not home I get curious and google. He dares Christians to come up with any evidence at all. Some of them have some, but of course, he’ll never accept it. He subtlety insults everyone he debates with and tries to belittle them and make them feel uneducated and weak. They can hold their own, but when they do, he gets nastier and nastier. The things he calls them and the condescending way he speaks to them hurts my feelings. I believe in the same things, after all. He claims that the people he debates with aren’t like Catholics, but does it matter when he is debating the existence of Jesus and validity of the Bible?
I have no plans to convince him, as it cannot be done. All I can do is pray. But if he plans on telling the kids that mom is crazy and they don’t have to get up early on Sundays and they don’t have to take the time out of their fun lives to pray, and that can take the easy way out because the religion telling them to do these things is false, I would end up hating him.
Everything else is perfect. I know he is my soul mate, but I feel this slowly eating away at us, and I have insisted that we wait a few years to talk about it, because I am happy and I’m afraid I’ll end up leaving him if the conversation gets too far, but somehow it keeps coming up.
I’m not willing to bend on how I’m going to raise my future kids. But neither is he.
Any advice?
Thanks so much!
Click to expand...
If his stance does not change he is not the husband for you.

Pax,
Tarpeian
 
bananas11 said:
I spoke to him more last night about how I feel about my kids’ souls and how important it is to me that they get to heaven. He bent. He said he will go to church with us, and he said that Sunday school is fine. but that if they ever go to him and ask what he believes, he will tell them. He also swore that he would do so in a way that would not compromise their respect for me. We still have a long way to go, but it’s progress, at least.
As for us living together, I know it is against the church, but that’s not what I am seeking advice for, and it is only Jesus who can judge me. But I do appreciate all of your comments. They are definitely getting me thinking!
👍
Click to expand...
Dear sister,
we are all happy that you have read our messages, and have started thinking about them.
It’s great that you and your boyfriend are discussing important issues.
Would he consent to go through RCIA to find out what Catholics believe? Would he do it for you? Once he learns what we believe, he might be more open to your teaching it to your children; he might even decide it’s the truth.
You have been through a previous marriage attempt, so you know we all can make mistakes. Our advice to you is recognize that you are in the middle of a mistake that can bring you a lot of pain, and step back from it. Move out, take a break and look at your relationship as objectively as possible.
If you moved out and said, please go to RCIA if you are serous about wanting to marry me, what would his response be?
God bless.
 
PaleoConCatlick said:
This is an example of how Catholics are facing extinction by atheists if this continues to happen.
This guy trolls Christians on the internet for fun? What kind of person does that?
Click to expand...
As I stated before, this man is a fully indoctrinated secularist who is “hostile” toward our faith. I don’t believe him for a split second that he will be respectful toward you or your children. So many times all the warning signs are flashing and blaring, but the woman in love chooses to look away. They and their children pay for it enormously later. 😊 Rob
 
bananas11 said:
I probably should have mentioned that I have been married before. To a Catholic. But he was abusive and we were granted an annulment. He wants to get married, but it is my choice to wait. A long time.
And my job won’t afford me to live alone. We have actually put a hold on sex some weeks ago for personal issues, so please note that this is not the only thing that bonds us. I fell in love for him many months before we slept together (which I know is a sin, but we are all sinners here.) We are splitting rent and sleeping in the same bed together, and spending time together in general is great, and we can talk about pretty much anything.
I spoke to him more last night about how I feel about my kids’ souls and how important it is to me that they get to heaven. He bent. He said he will go to church with us, and he said that Sunday school is fine. but that if they ever go to him and ask what he believes, he will tell them. He also swore that he would do so in a way that would not compromise their respect for me. We still have a long way to go, but it’s progress, at least.
As for us living together, I know it is against the church, but that’s not what I am seeking advice for, and it is only Jesus who can judge me. But I do appreciate all of your comments. They are definitely getting me thinking!
👍
Click to expand...
Here’s my take:

Once you have a child - the love of that child will override everything else. And yet, a child needs many years to mature. During that time, a child is so easily influenced by so much outside stimuli. That your bf is so intelligent - makes him so much easier to influence the mind of a young child.

You mention that he loves to debate. He likes to be intellectually superior to others. But when he meets a match, he “He subtlety insults everyone he debates with and tries to belittle them and make them feel uneducated and weak.” (your words).

Now, let’s just move the calendar up a few years.

Your little four year old comes up to daddy.

“Daddy, Is Jesus real?” (my 4 year old just asked this because she is trying to grasp things that are real verses stories in movies that are for entertainment).

Daddy:“Well, if you ask me, ‘no’”.
child:“But Mommy said he is real.”
Daddy:Rolls eyes. “I love her anyway.”

With a little body language - he can undermine anything that he wants (even without saying a word). What chance does a young child have against a parent like that? It’s hard enough in this world when you have two parents that have to raise their child against a society that undermines people at so many levels.

Now, let’s turn it around. How are you going to react?

child:“Mommy, Daddy says that Jesus isn’t real. He calls him an imaginary wizard in the sky.”
Mommy:(okay, what are you going to say?)
 
bananas11 said:
As for us living together, I know it is against the church, but that’s not what I am seeking advice for, and it is only Jesus who can judge me.
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It is not against the Church. It is against God. Jesus is the same God who pronounced “You shall not commit adultery”; why in the world would you mock the God you claim to love and dare him to judge you?
 
Please know that we all want you (and your lover, and your possible children) to end up in Heaven.

I’m another woman who committed a lot of sexual sins before I became Catholic - but haven’t since. You say,
As for us living together, I know it is against the church, but that’s not what I am seeking advice for, and it is only Jesus who can judge me.
Click to expand...
We can’t judge you, in the sense of whether or not you’re going to hell. Your right; only Jesus can. But we can definitely tell you what mortal sin is.

There are three things that must exist before something is a mortal sin.
First, is it grave matter? (Yes. You are fornicating.)
Second, you must fully understand that it is grave matter. (You seem to know that.)
Third, you must knowingly choose to do it anyway. (You seem to be making that choice.)

We can judge the first one. The other two are much harder, and, truly, only Jesus knows for sure. But it is true that you know you are disobeying the Church. The question is, are you deceiving yourself? Please think about it. Please. It’s not true that you “can’t” move out, though I understand the fear. But plenty of people live on very little. I’ve done it. Is your real fear having to change your current lifestyle? giving up things like the big screen HDTV, the broadband internet, plentiful disposable income?

Remember this?
John 15:13-14 (KJV)
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
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Jesus was talking about His crucifixion. He was crucified to save our souls.

You are currently “laying down your life for this man,” in the sense that you are not willing to help him get to heaven. You can’t do that by sinning with him - cooperating.

To truly lay down your life for this man, you need to tell him, “The thing I care most about is that you get to heaven.” And follow through by not helping him to commit grave sin.

The same goes for your children. Will having an atheist for a father help them get to heaven? I think it will make it harder. And I agree with Shainski.

Why don’t you give him a test on his “bending”? Ask him to treat everybody (including internet strangers) as he plans to treat your children.

Gotta go - bless you!
 
You could be my sister, circa 10 years ago. She thought I was an uptight religious neanderthal for telling her it would be trouble and ignored me. Today she’s divorced and is about to remarry outside the church.

It’s not a coincidence. Harnessing your soul to another is serious business. A believing catholic marrying a militant atheist makes about as much sense as trying out for the Olympic freestyle swim with a boat anchor tied around your waist.

Once again, I’m sure I come across as a repressed religious troll. But it’s going to be a disaster. He fundamentally disrespects a vital part of your very identity. How’s that going to work out?
 
God loves us, more than we can understand with our finite minds. Today is the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. He shows us His heart, burning for love of us!

God is the Maker and Designer of married life and family. He designed the sexual union of a husband and wife to be the super glue that helps to get them through difficult times, and difficult times come to every one. The dating time is meant for the persons to really look at who they are dating, to think soberly about the other as a spouse and parent. When you apply the ‘super glue’ before it’s proper time, you can’t think straight. It can be plain as the nose on your face but the ‘glue’ makes it difficult to think. There’s way too much hormones involved. There’s plenty of people who slept together, lived together, and some years down the road wonder what on earth they were thinking. God’s plan for marriage and family is meant to guard us and help us.

There is a Catholic couple in our parish that are such a joy to watch. The dad shows his children how to make the sign of the Cross. When they come up for communion, they kiss the icon on the tetrapod. (we are Ukrainian Catholic) The littlest boy was held while daddy got an anointing with oil and the little guy had a front row seat in daddy’s arms. Then the little guy traced the sign of the Cross on daddy’s forehead, like the priest had done, and daddy had the biggest smile. I did too. And tears. This is a Catholic daddy. Tall, strong, brave, kneeling before God, holding his wife’s hand and them praying together. You know the kids are watching and soaking it all in. Daddies know how to shut the tv off and pray the rosary. They pray before eating, and they thank God for all He’s blessed them with. In troubles, he knows how to go on his knees and ask for help and graces. This is the kind of man that is worthy of asking your hand in marriage. He respects God and His Commandments, he respects his spouse. He knows how to bring blessing upon his family, his community, and really, the whole world. You are to be that awesome and loving woman that this man is looking for. This is a time for you to strengthen your relationship to your loving Saviour, as you discern who you will marry. Your children and grandchildren depend on a sober and wise choice. Ask God what His plans are for you, for they are for blessing. Come into that blessing today.
 
@ bananas11

Your quote below:

“As for us living together, I know it is against the church, but that’s not what I am seeking advice for, and it is only Jesus who can judge me. But I do appreciate all of your comments. They are definitely getting me thinking!”

You are mistaken on this statement. I can judge you and so can anyone in the community. I’m not certain where you get this notion, but I know society likes to use this phrase all the time. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” This is used to silence someone who you disagree with or can’t have a discussion based on reason and logic. I know this is not the topic of your thread, so if you would like to start another thread, or pm me to demonstrate the fallacy of this assertion I will accommodate you.

As I stated before this is not the man for you. And you are allowing him to disrespect you instead of honoring you. He has no reason or motive to commit to you. You are allowing him to “eat the ice cream without having to pay.”

Pax,
Tarpeian
 
There are so many red flags waving here. Don’t ignore them because if you do you will be posting here again in a few years and talking about your painfully difficult marriage. Your boyfriend is disrepecting something that is hugely important to you–your belief in God. And your desire to bring any future children into the Church. Did you know that children usually adopt the same religious beliefs as their father? Or in this case hateful anti-religious beliefs.
The Holy Spirit is stirring in you and giving you good reason to ponder this and ask for help here on this Catholic forum. Unless this young man can be sincerely converted PRIOR to marriage do not marry him. In the mean time do yourself a favor and move out. You are in a state of mortal sin if you are pretending to be married and having sex with him. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. God expects you to be stronger than this and He will help you get there if you ask for help. Pray!
 
Tarpeian said:
@ bananas11

As I stated before this is not the man for you. And you are allowing him to disrespect you instead of honoring you. He has no reason or motive to commit to you. You are allowing him to “eat the ice cream without having to pay.”

Pax,
Tarpeian
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Your whole post is spot on, but this is a critical point to reinforce. Shacking up and having sex prior to marriage is NOT in any way self-respecting. It is saying without words, “I think that I am not worthy of marriage; I will give my treasures away for nothing.” This message sets up the relationship to be one of taking and using. That man, as arrogant and nasty as he is being to others, understands clearly that nothing is asked of him and he can have all the benefits of marriage without any of the commitments. He is getting away “scot free,” so to speak. He could leave at any time, and still have reaped the benefits of having sex without commitment, and probably the OP does a lot of other things for him, although he likely deserves nothing. The way he treats strangers speaks to his character. She can wax on about how great he is, but it’s what we do when no one is looking that tells the story.

I pray that the OP will heed our warnings and move out.
 
You’ve gotten so many excellent replies of people who care about you and your situation. How are you doing?

I want to tackle another issue. The pill has become so common and girls are taking it in their teens, that it really never gets challenged at all. I don’t know if you are on the pill or not. Regardless, the following is good information.

The pill used to be in higher dosages but with the serious side effects, companies lowered the dose that they possibly could to still provide birth control. First off, the pill suppresses ovulation. However, during a year and 13 cycles, an egg may be released once or twice. The back up is that the pill makes the uterus inhospitable to a fertilized egg so it cannot implant into the uterus and continue growing. The fertilized egg is lost in the woman’s period. These words sound harmless enough, but the truth of the matter is that it is an abortion. If a woman uses the pill for 5 years, she may abort 5 to 10 of her children. Are you really willing to have to answer to God for aborting your children? You may never know in this life what the number was, but be sure, God will know. You said, ‘only God can judge me’, well He will. My dear, He will.

You are doing all this for a man who isn’t ready to put a ring on your finger. Who hasn’t come before God and family and friends to say he wants to spend the rest of his life with you. No. No more. You are too precious. Your soul is meant for heaven for eternity. Come into the love of God and receive what God has prepared for you.

A husband is meant to lay down his life for his wife and his family, and before marriage is when he is supposed to put that into play in his life. To exercise those muscles of faith and love. This is the challenge for men and how they grow in grace, in faith, in perseverance. You have removed the challenge and stolen this from him. Regardless if he believes in God, he will answer for aborted children as well. This will not end well for him either.
 
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