My brother's, non-Catholic wedding

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Yes, I am loving and humble but when it comes to situations like this we must follow what the Catholic Church teaches. I am a Catholic because I want to follow the truth no matter how had it is or no matter how indifferent it seems to today’s, materialistic society that is a disgrace. I am not a sheep that will follow the wrong shepard lol I am strong enough to follow, and do what, the correct shepard says 👍
 
To the OP, Crazydyl:

Some thoughts to consider, please:
  1. Although I admire your zeal, please, please, take a deep breath. You keep saying how ‘passionate’ you are. However, it is not really manifesting itself as ‘passion,’ it is manifesting itself in your posts as your being very, very scattered, which IMHO may suggest some uncertainty about yourself.
  2. Let me elaborate: Your OP asks about attending a non-cathoic wedding. I have repeatedly, repeatedly disagreed with some posters, on other threads, about going. My personal opinion that that you should attend, or at least not believe attending constitutes some sort of grave sin (which it does not, IMHO, but I’m going to trashed for that statement, like I’ve been trashed before, and such trashing does not make it correct then, and it is not correct now…but that is another thread).
  3. Anyway, after that OP, you used that OP to dovetail into your telling us that you are going to get married, if only you can find some spectacular, spectacular woman…or you’re going to become a priest (in 2015)…and going to become a multimillionaire…or get married…or be a priest…and do great works, etc. Hey, once again, zeal is great, but, Dude, you are absolutely all over the map as to what you are planning here.
  4. So I must respectfully ask a few questions, not so much for me, but maybe in the hopes you will ask yourself:
a. Why do you want to be a priest? Because you can’t find a spectacular woman? That IMHO is a really, really bad reason, so much so that I respectfully think that you would not get into Catholic seminary, let alone through one, with that aproach.
b. On that note, have you ever even seriously ‘gone to the next step,’ vis-a-vis becoming a priest? Have you at least spoken to a priest about becoming one? For how long was your discussion? What did they say? Who laid out the 2015 timetable to become a priest? You? A seminary? What was the basis for that timetable? I would respectfuly suggest that, if I were a priest and a young fellow came to me and said, what you have said on this thread, and nothing more, I would tell him, charitably, “you need much deeper discernment over why you want this,” and politely say, in essence, ‘pray, do good works, and come back in 5 years’…is that where we got 2015 from?
c. How many serious, serious relationships with women have you had at 22? 0? 3? 15? If the number was more than, I dunno, 2-3, how many of those were ended by the woman, not by you? Or were you uniformly the one who ended things? I ask because I think your ‘passion,’ or views about how wonderful you are, etc., may, quite frankly, be really, really hard to, uh…‘measure up to’ if you’re the woman…or, alternatively, cause you to have some unreasonable expectations about what/who you are looking for, and what/who you may find. Alternatively, what work experience do you have? A degree in something? If so, what? All of these things ‘go into the hopper’ in terms of being part of the discernment process…for example, if you have a spiritual calling because you feel that the nation is too corporate – based on your personal experience – that is fine. If you believe you are being called to the clergy because all the eligible women at your college think you’re way, way to passionate about life, then that may lead you to a different end,

Look, I am not trying to throw water on your fire, I have no doubt you are very sincere…but, at the same time, I would simply respectfuly ask that you consider the above in your heart, and pray on them.

Charitably,

-VdT
 
crazydyl said:
…YOU seem to be unclear of rules and if you look up cannon law then you will know that we should not attend.
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I’m fairly certain that canon law does not state this at all. If it did/does, I would know how to deal with my own situation and could inform hubby accordingly regarding attendance/non-attendance at his brother’s wedding. Link, please?
 
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with Canon Law. I think what Goth was trying to say is maybe it’s not so Catholic to disparage your brother and his wife-to-be like that. Saying “This doesn’t honor God, I can’t go, but I’ll pray for you guys,” is one thing. Calling her a retard is quite another.

I never said you had to go. I said use prudential judgment. If you already knew you weren’t going, why were you asking? And, in your response to my post, I never said you were ten. I said you were young. And I never claimed to be complete either. But I do agree that you yourself sound unsure.

And Maria Goretti didn’t live to see womanhood. She was twelve when she died. I know she hit quite a stage of maturity beforehand (having been through poverty, sexual abuse, and the death of her father, all before her First Communion), but she was still a kid. I’d personally feel creeped out if my future husband was like, “I want you to emulate a kid,” especially one that’s been through what she has. I’m just saying, I know you intended different, but it just sounds off. As for, I am too passionate for most Catholics…that comes off wrong.

Don’t go to seminary just because you can’t find a woman five years from now. You won’t even be 30 yet!! I know so many faithful Catholics who didn’t even meet their spouse until 35! You’ve got time! And don’t forget, God operates out of our schedules.
 
I have a question? Do you have a spiritual advisor, a trusted priest who you can talk to as you go on this journey? Because this definitely sounds like something that you should talk with him about (all of it, from the various vocations to the relationship with family members to the wedding itself). And hopefully your spiritual advisor can help you understand this complex issue (because it is more complex then some have made it out to be… this article gives a glimpse of that and explains various circumstances).

Our passion for Christ is never an excuse to be cruel to others. You can talk about being on fire with love for Christ all you want, but it’s hard for others to believe when you go around calling people cruel names. And saying that it’s because you love God so much sounds pretty hollow.

Prayers.
 
The brother is Catholic, he knows the Church laws on marriage and he knows good and well he is in defiance of those rules by attempting to marry outside those laws. Let’s give the brother the benefit of the doubt, that the brother has enough love and respect for his family that he does not expect them to attend an invalid wedding.

One can not attend a wedding, do it with compassion and love “Brother, you know that I am a practicing Catholic and that I cannot in good conscience attend this wedding. I love you. Will you and Suzie come over for a cook out next week?”

No one here said to cut the brother and his girlfriend out of the lives, just to not attend the wedding.
 
There are plenty of awesome Catholic women out there. The problem is that Catholic men reject them because they are overweight, or not good looking enough, or any of a number of shallow, superficial reasons. That’s how I ended up married to a Catholic girl!
 
kage_ar said:
One can not attend a wedding, do it with compassion and love “Brother, you know that I am a practicing Catholic and that I cannot in good conscience attend this wedding. I love you. Will you and Suzie come over for a cook out next week?”

No one here said to cut the brother and his girlfriend out of the lives, just to not attend the wedding.
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That’s a great point. If you choose not to go, then invite them out for something.
 
OP: I’d almost consider wanting to introduce you to my 19-year-old niece… a hard-working, devout, lovely, innocent young lady who longs to meet and marry a devout, hard-working Catholic young man and have a family with him.

Problem is, you’re coming across as a jerk.

It’s great that you are passionate about truth and the Faith. It’s wonderful that you are devout. But there’s more to being a priest or a husband than that.

Humility? Modesty? Charity? Those are also the hallmarks of a good priest AND a good husband.

From what I’ve read of your posts, I’m beginning to wonder if ANY young woman would ever meet your standards… and I doubt you’d be completely happy as a priest, either, since it is a job that will bring you in contact with the very people and imperfections you seem to disdain so much.

Even the greatest among us must serve the least if we are to be like Christ… which is what a priest is supposed to be, another Christ.

Spend some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament and remember the Scripture about the Pharisee and the tax collector… the Pharisee went to the temple and prayed aloud to God his thankfulness that he was not a sinner, like the tax collector, and all his other good qualities, while the tax collector merely humbled himself and asked God to have mercy on him, a sinner. Remember who went away justified?

It’s a reading I meditate on almost every day. We all should.

God bless you. You are in my prayers.
 
crazydyl said:
I am going to start priest training in 2015 if I can’t find an amazing, Catholic woman - these are extremely rare. I am the best single, Catholic guy for a devout, Catholic woman, no doubt about it. Hopefully I can find someone good enough but we will see. I can always be a priest and I’d certainly love being one. I also want to be a good Catholic and show love to everyone and have no enemies.

My brother is a ‘smart’ doctor and his** fiance is a retard and I don’t like her -
**
I don’t like my brother for not being a Catholic and having a child outside of marriage and because his wife is a retard.** I don’t like his gf because she is so dumb and so are all of her family.**
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crazydyl said:
W
. I have only started being a hardcore Catholic in the last 3 months. I am a very passionate, young man. I am more passionate and loving than 99.999% of the people in the world. I want to do something magnificent with my life and I am struggling to find any woman with as much passion as me. I feel like I am suited to become a husband, but I am frustrated in my search for a woman with a pure, passionate heart. I came to the conclusion that only God would be good enough to have my heart if I couldn’t find a woman by 2015. - I am awesome. … I am truly awesome and loving, but someone like me finds it hard to find a match.
.** I wouldn’t feel rewarded **making a non-amazing woman happy, so I would become a priest and absolutely love doing that for God, so you can shut up saying that I shouldn’t become a priest, … Will you be able to stand before God and say that you gave your all to help other people? NO! **So don’t criticise when you are more than likely materialistic and don’t give everything that you have to do good like I do!
**
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crazydyl said:
I am 22 years-old and very devout. Is it my fault that I have more passion than the lot of you?
God bless
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crazydyl said:
I am considering becoming a priest. I need a woman that is extra special to stop me from becoming one. If any of you are very devout and as passionate as me, then I would like to hear from you.I’d love someone like Maria Gorreti if that is at all possible. I am too passionate for most Catholics, imo.

I am humble, …
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crazydyl said:
///I am loving and humble but when it comes to situations like this we must follow what the Catholic Church teaches. :
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Did you hear about the guy who won the humility award but they took it away from him because he accepted it?

Geez, if you have to tell people you are humble, you’re not.

When you tell people you are more passionate than them, and even say that you are better than 99.999% of the world, this is not humility.

When you call someone a retard, twice, dumb, you are not being “a Catholic who is showing love to everyone.”
 
I really hope you are not another troll.

It is just unfathomable that someone would come to a Catholic forum and present themselves the way you have done crazydyl. Perhaps I am not being nice myself, but I can not imagine someone who loves Jesus thinking it is okay to demean others with derogatory names.

Perhaps this prayer will be of good use to you. I know I need to say it for myself more than I do:

O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved…
From the desire of being extolled …
From the desire of being honored …
From the desire of being praised …
From the desire of being preferred to others…
From the desire of being consulted …
From the desire of being approved …
From the fear of being humiliated …
From the fear of being despised…
From the fear of suffering rebukes …
From the fear of being calumniated …
From the fear of being forgotten …
From the fear of being ridiculed …
From the fear of being wronged …
From the fear of being suspected …

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

That others may be esteemed more than I …
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease …
That others may be chosen and I set aside …
That others may be praised and I unnoticed …
That others may be preferred to me in everything…
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…

taken from ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/humility.htm
 
jenlovesyu said:
I really hope you are not another troll.

It is just unfathomable that someone would come to a Catholic forum and present themselves the way you have done crazydyl. Perhaps I am not being nice myself, but I can not imagine someone who loves Jesus thinking it is okay to demean others with derogatory names.

Perhaps this prayer will be of good use to you. I know I need to say it for myself more than I do:

O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved…
From the desire of being extolled …
From the desire of being honored …
From the desire of being praised …
From the desire of being preferred to others…
From the desire of being consulted …
From the desire of being approved …
From the fear of being humiliated …
From the fear of being despised…
From the fear of suffering rebukes …
From the fear of being calumniated …
From the fear of being forgotten …
From the fear of being ridiculed …
From the fear of being wronged …
From the fear of being suspected …

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

That others may be esteemed more than I …
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease …
That others may be chosen and I set aside …
That others may be praised and I unnoticed …
That others may be preferred to me in everything…
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…

taken from ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/humility.htm
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Whoa…just to affirm this, This prayer occurred to me last night when I read the thread, but I forgot to include the link today when I replied. Thanks.
 
kage_ar said:
The brother is Catholic, he knows the Church laws on marriage and he knows good and well he is in defiance of those rules by attempting to marry outside those laws. Let’s give the brother the benefit of the doubt, that the brother has enough love and respect for his family that he does not expect them to attend an invalid wedding.
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The question I had (and I’m absolutely not arguing that this is right, because I know that I don’t know enough to argue one way or another) was about whether the brother had separated himself from the Church through “Apostasy”, that is a renunciation of belief. He says his brother was baptized and confirmed. He also said the brother was involved in abortions (excommunication latae sententiae). The first quote below specifically is what made me wonder, because it certainly doesn’t sound like he’s a practicing Catholic (so question to the OP: has your brother formally renounced Catholicism?):
“The first thing we must establish is that, in the situation you ask about, the party who was baptized in the Catholic Church, and later left it by the formal renouncing of the faith in the public act of joining another church, is now considered to be non-Catholic for the purposes of marriage. Since this is the case, yes, it is possible for a Catholic to attend such a wedding. As the 1967 Directory on Ecumenical Matters states, “Catholics may be allowed to attend occasionally the liturgical services of other separated brethren if they have reasonable ground, e.g., arising out of public office or function, blood relationship or friendship, etc.,…so long as they are not at variance with Catholic faith” (no. 59). Keep in mind that what makes it permissible to attend this particular wedding you speak of is that the person is no longer Catholic. If the person were Catholic, then the situation changes.”
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source
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and the last sentence of this:
“The excommunicated person, it is true, does not cease to be a Christian, since his baptism can never be effaced; he can, however, be considered as an exile from Christian society and as non-existent, for a time at least, in the sight of ecclesiastical authority. But such exile can have an end (and the Church desires it), as soon as the offender has given suitable satisfaction. Meanwhile, his status before the Church is that of a stranger.”
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If he was a practicing Catholic the answer would be easy. But the more I read the more it seems not to be quite that cut and dry, and since no one had mentioned the possibility above (which may not be the situation), I thought I’d at least bring it up.
 
RedSoxWife said:
The question I had (and I’m absolutely not arguing that this is right, because I know that I don’t know enough to argue one way or another) was about whether the brother had separated himself from the Church through “Apostasy”, that is a renunciation of belief. He says his brother was baptized and confirmed. He also said the brother was involved in abortions (excommunication latae sententiae). The first quote below specifically is what made me wonder, because it certainly doesn’t sound like he’s a practicing Catholic (so question to the OP: has your brother formally renounced Catholicism?):

If he was a practicing Catholic the answer would be easy. But the more I read the more it seems not to be quite that cut and dry, and since no one had mentioned the possibility above (which may not be the situation), I thought I’d at least bring it up.
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Even those excommunicated are bound by the laws on marriage.

The “formal defection” loophole has been closed.

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/canon_law/index.html
 
Thanks for the link! An explanation like this was exactly what I was looking for and not finding anywhere!
 
sanctamaria17 said:
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with Canon Law. I think what Goth was trying to say is maybe it’s not so Catholic to disparage your brother and his wife-to-be like that. Saying “This doesn’t honor God, I can’t go, but I’ll pray for you guys,” is one thing. Calling her a retard is quite another.
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Exactly.
 
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