My concern for the Social outlook within the Catholic Church

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In regards to Social Justice - would the Catholic Church be better off in understanding the Republican view of the three pillars of society vs the Democratic View that its Governments role to provide for the poor per say?

The Three Pillars of Society are
  1. Individual / Family
  2. Community / Church
  3. Government
 
The idea that the role of the government is to provide for the poor and needy can be dangerous in my opinion. Charity is probably the best alternative to government handouts. Charity involves the private property rights and the duty to work; two important principles that are lost in government handouts.

These quotes from the Catechism I hope explain my point (I am no Church historian by any account so I could be wrong)

2427 Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth, both with and for one another.210 Hence work is a duty: "If any one will not work, let him not eat."211 Work honors the Creator’s gifts and the talents received from him. It can also be redemptive. By enduring the hardship of work212 in union with Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth and the one crucified on Calvary, man collaborates in a certain fashion with the Son of God in his redemptive work. He shows himself to be a disciple of Christ by carrying the cross, daily, in the work he is called to accomplish.213 Work can be a means of sanctification and a way of animating earthly realities with the Spirit of Christ.

2428 In work, the person exercises and fulfills in part the potential inscribed in his nature. The primordial value of labor stems from man himself, its author and its beneficiary. Work is for man, not man for work.214

Everyone should be able to draw from work the means of providing for his life and that of his family, and of serving the human community.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a7.htm

The Church is also purposefully ambiguous as to proper political ideologies, because they can certainly be wrong, so I do not see how adopting the view of Republicans would be beneficial.

Remember, the best social program is a job. I do not believe Jesus preached free-loading.

If I am wrong about Church teaching, please tell me and I apologize in advance.

I hope I have contributed to this thread.
 
The Church is also purposefully ambiguous as to proper political ideologies, because they can certainly be wrong, so I do not see how adopting the view of Republicans would be beneficial.

Remember, the best social program is a job. I do not believe Jesus preached free-loading.
In the context on the three pillars of society - we understand that each pillar has a role to play - which I believe is directly related to the Social Justice mission of the Catholic Church.

A) The Individual / Family

As individuals we are called to do the work of God and thus provide for our selves; families; communities; church and so forth…

Our Catholic Church even understands and teaches the three vocations of man…
  1. married life 2) single life 3) religious life
B) The Community / Church

Within our very own communities we have many jobs available - that allow us to produce fruits for our own families and this cooperating with others as well

In regards to the Health Care debate - it seems that we as indviduals/ families should first take that responsibility even if it is a lesser paying job so that we may have better benefits - thus it is within the community that these benefits should come from and if we can’t afford it turn to the Church…

C) Government

I believe that government is the pillar to make sure that laws are obeyed and our constitutional rights both state and federal are protected

Yet every time we allow government to intervene in our lives we lose that freedom that was ours
 
In the context on the three pillars of society - we understand that each pillar has a role to play - which I believe is directly related to the Social Justice mission of the Catholic Church.

A) The Individual / Family

As individuals we are called to do the work of God and thus provide for our selves; families; communities; church and so forth…

Our Catholic Church even understands and teaches the three vocations of man…
  1. married life 2) single life 3) religious life
B) The Community / Church

Within our very own communities we have many jobs available - that allow us to produce fruits for our own families and this cooperating with others as well

In regards to the Health Care debate - it seems that we as indviduals/ families should first take that responsibility even if it is a lesser paying job so that we may have better benefits - thus it is within the community that these benefits should come from and if we can’t afford it turn to the Church…

C) Government

I believe that government is the pillar to make sure that laws are obeyed and our constitutional rights both state and federal are protected

Yet every time we allow government to intervene in our lives we lose that freedom that was ours
Am I wrong then?
 
In regards to Social Justice - would the Catholic Church be better off in understanding the Republican view of the three pillars of society vs the Democratic View that its Governments role to provide for the poor per say?

The Three Pillars of Society are
  1. Individual / Family
  2. Community / Church
  3. Government
I am not sure what you mean by the 3 pillars of society and what they have to do with helping the poor, but I am thinking that you might possibly be thinking of the principle of subsidiarity, which holds that things should be handled at the most local level possible. So, a family’s financial decisions should be made by the family, but road maintenance needs to be handled by a higher level, the town/county or state.

And that is the Catholic way of seeing how things should be handled.
 
In regards to Social Justice - would the Catholic Church be better off in understanding the Republican view of the three pillars of society vs the Democratic View that its Governments role to provide for the poor per say?

The Three Pillars of Society are
  1. Individual / Family
  2. Community / Church
  3. Government
The first thing the Church should do is return to the basic tenents and teachings of the Church which they have avoided doing for the past fifty or sixty years while getting mired in the ‘Social Justice’ issues. It is only through the basic teachings they should be proclaiming that Social Justice will evolve.
 
Helping the poor is an act of charity. Charity is love because it involves the free will. Government removes the free will by making laws that either restrict or require. It is no longer free will if you are forced to help the poor under the penalty of the legal system. Where is the charity if it is not given of the free will? There is no love in the act. It does nothing for the soul, and as God has designed us that way, it will never work if it is forced.

A man is sitting by the river with nothing to eat.

A Democrat will bring him some food once a week. It isn’t the best food, but it will get him by. If he decides to move away, he is considered well enough again to make it on his own.

A Republican will give him a fishing pole, show him how to use it, then wish him the best. The man doesn’t know if where he sits is a good spot, but he is free to move and try a different spot. All he has to do is find the right place and he will hit the jackpot.

I’ll take the Republican approach. It gives more credit to the individual, it’s better for him in the long run, and besides, it’s cheaper on everyone else.
 
Is there not a quote that says compassion without justice is stupidity?
 
I am not sure what you mean by the 3 pillars of society and what they have to do with helping the poor, but I am thinking that you might possibly be thinking of the principle of subsidiarity, which holds that things should be handled at the most local level possible. So, a family’s financial decisions should be made by the family, but road maintenance needs to be handled by a higher level, the town/county or state.

And that is the Catholic way of seeing how things should be handled.
And if things were being handled there would be no need for government, either state or federal getting involved. The problem arises when local folks either don’t rise or can’t rise to meet the problem in an equitable fashion. One only need look at the differences in educational opportunities from locale to locale or state to state. Some places do a good job, while others fail miserably in preparing their young citizens for the future. Thus things get bumped up to the next level.

Looking at health care it is very obvious that some are much better off than others. It begets a society of haves and have nots. It is not being handled equitably on either a local or even on some state levels so the feds step in and we wonder why, particularly if we as individuals are among the haves. Its a “I have mine, its up to you how you get yours, but don’t look to me for help” world.

Many of us do not like or want to be “our brothers keeper.”
 
… One only need look at the differences in educational opportunities from locale to locale or state to state. Some places do a good job, while others fail miserably in preparing their young citizens for the future. Thus things get bumped up to the next level…
This is probably the best example of what I said in my post, and the worst example for you to use to make your case. I work in D.C. They spend more money per student than any other city in the nation, and the public school system here is an absolute nightmare. Money is not the issue. I was born and raised in Oklahoma City, where per student spending is less than half of what D.C. is, and the results are much better. It’s the priorities of the officials who job it is to decide how that money is spent and how to raise more money when necessary. Most of those people are not to be trusted. Looking at education, it is laughable to say that government should fill the void where charity cannot. Every time the government tries, they create another class of permanently, or at least long-term, dependent people.

You cannot save people who don’t want to be saved. You cannot help people who don’t want to be helped. Virtually all people in our country today living under the “poverty” level, including yours truly, have a car, cable TV, a cell phone, and are not anywhere near starving. This is on top of the basics.

Perspective people. BTW, I am not on any state benefits at all, despite the fact that I qualify for almost all of them.
 
The “three pillar” concept may be a Texas thing; I haven’t heard of this in Illinois. This seems an arrangement that contradicts subsidiarity.

The point about teaching a man to fish is good. . . except that society will always have mental defects and incompetents who still cannot feed themselves because they cannot do so.

And of course, there are plenty of people who cannot afford the fishing pole to being with!

I don’t think either party has a lock on the truth here; each one holds some part of the truth and some part of the answer.
 
And if things were being handled there would be no need for government, either state or federal getting involved. The problem arises when local folks either don’t rise or can’t rise to meet the problem in an equitable fashion. One only need look at the differences in educational opportunities from locale to locale or state to state. Some places do a good job, while others fail miserably in preparing their young citizens for the future. Thus things get bumped up to the next level.
Well, this is a really bad example for me, as I believe that education ought to be handled in a much different way, but it will do.

First of all, the fact that there are “inequities” in education from place to place is not a problem if there is freedom to move from place to place. I used to live in a large metropolitan area, and people did choose where they lived so they could live in a place with a “good” school system.

Secondly, a student can learn in almost any school system; the problem is that a lot of students do not learn because of forces outside the school, forces which are beyond the school’s ability to change. (which is not to say that there are no bad schools, but that that is by no means the only problem)

Thirdly, the idea of what constitutes a good education varies. One person thinks that “the basics” are what is needed, the 3R’s. Another thinks that without the bells and whistles of computers, fancy labs, and a good sports program that students are being shortchanged.

Disparities in spending and achievement are no more a reason for a higher entity to take over than it was when the localities took over that responsibility from the family.
Looking at health care it is very obvious that some are much better off than others. It begets a society of haves and have nots. It is not being handled equitably on either a local or even on some state levels so the feds step in and we wonder why, particularly if we as individuals are among the haves. Its a “I have mine, its up to you how you get yours, but don’t look to me for help” world.
There are inequities all over. We could even provide each US citisen with sterling health care, but there were still be the inequity of health care from nation to nation. By going up the scale as you suggest, within a couple of generations we will have single-payer world health insurance.

As Catholics, we understand that there is suffering in this world. And we are called upon to try to alleviate suffering where we can. As Catholics, I believe that we are not supposed to aim for an “equity” so complete that *everyone *gets inadequate health care.
Many of us do not like or want to be “our brothers keeper.”
I agree that the political philosophy of many Americans leaves out the issue of those who are *unable *to care for themselves. We cannot create a conservative utopia in which each person cares for himself any more than we can create a liberal utopia in which each individual has a wonderful life as a result of government action.

The principle of subsidiarity is violated by both the right and the left. By the left due to their insistence in believing that the state must cure all our problems, by the right in their insistence that the state be uninvolved in any problem.
 
I think that as long as priests refuse to preach “the basics” the social justice issues we face will never hope to be solved. When speaking about subsidiary, the family is where society begins. Intact christian families are at the heart of stable communities and societies at large. One of the first things that happens in the aftermath of a divorce is that the majority of mothers and children are imediately thrown into the poverty ranks. If divorce contributes to the poverty rolls and poverty is at the root of crime, lack of education, adequite housing, etc., then shouldn’t it’s prevention be a major focus of the church and laity?

I know many will say that it is, but I beg to differ. Yes we have pre-canna, and pre-marital counsiling, but do we really have true catechis anymore. We can talk to young couples until we are blue in the face about sharing household chores, or cooperation in family budgeting, but can that replace the fact that they have no real idea of what the indisolvability of this covenant means?

The church would serve society a great deal more by getting back to basics.
 
Looking at health care it is very obvious that some are much better off than others. It begets a society of haves and have nots. It is not being handled equitably on either a local or even on some state levels so the feds step in and we wonder why, particularly if we as individuals are among the haves. Its a “I have mine, its up to you how you get yours, but don’t look to me for help” world.
Actually, the feds are stepping in to “fix” a problem of their own making. From The History of Health Insurance in the United States (emphases mine):
…Employee benefit plans proliferated in the 1940’s and 1950’s. Strong unions bargained for better benefit packages, including tax-free, employer-sponsored health insurance. Wartime (1939-1945) wage freezes imposed by the government actually accelerated the spread of group health care. Unable by law to attract workers by paying more, employers instead improved their benefit packages, adding health care. Government programs to cover health care costs began to expand during the 1950s and 1960s. Disability benefits were included in social security coverage for the first time in 1954. When the government created Medicare and Medicaid programs in 1965, private sources still paid 75 percent of all of the health care costs. By 1995, individuals and companies only paid for about half of the health care with the government responsible for the other half.
Anyone who’s old enough to remember when doctors routinely made house calls is also old enough to remember that house calls (and office visits) used to be very affordable. When ‘insurance’ was introduced doctors and hospitals took some time to figure out that whether they charged $5 for an office visit, or $50, insurance would pay it, so health care cost began a dramatic leap. No one should have to wonder why, 50-60 years later, health care costs have grown to the point where there are haves and have nots and the feds think they have to step in to fix a problem they ultimately caused in the first place.
 
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