My confessor told me masturbation is only venial

[Holly3278]

You have to realize that there are three requirements before a grave sin can be mortal:

1. 
   *]Full knowledge of the gravity of the sin.
   *]Full consent of the will to commit the sin.
   *]Gravity of the sin.
   Your priest knows far better than anyone on here does whether or not you are in a state of mortal sin. He probably knows that you are struggling with an addiction to masturbation and therefore, this addiction reduces your culpability, thereby possibly making the sin a venial sin your case.
   
   Please do not question your priest. Your priest is your spiritual father and adviser. He is acting in persona Christi in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Trust your priest before you do some people on a random message board.
   
   And if you still don’t know whether or not you can trust your priest, write your bishop and ask him about this. He will give you his opinion on your sin and you can know for sure that your bishop will tell you the truth. However, I see no reason for you to doubt the opinion of your priest.

 

[Holly3278]

Trust your priest. It is a mortal sin, but like the others said, due to the force of aquired habit and so forth you can be allowed to still recieve Holy Communion. It is still a grave matter so you should do all you can to stop and confess often, weekly if necessary. Also, the graces you recieve from Holy Commuinion can help you overcome anything. You will be in my prayers!

I agree with you that he should trust his priest. However, this is not a mortal sin, it is a grave sin. The three conditions I made in my previous post must be met before a sin can become a mortal sin.

 

[dg5887]

I agree with you that he should trust his priest. However, this is not a mortal sin, it is a grave sin. The three conditions I made in my previous post must be met before a sin can become a mortal sin.

Sorry for the false statement, I stand corrected. Just trying to help. Hope I didn’t cause any harm. God Bless!

 

[TLM08]

I do believe in something. I believe that masturbation isn’t morally wrong, for example. I believe in math and science. I have faith that if I work towards my goals, that I will find happiness. I even believe in a higher power. I just don’t believe that this higher power is a deity. I believe in many things, but I admit that Christianity isn’t one of them.

Suppose we are neighbors, and you were extremely wealthy, frequently keeping large uncounted amounts of cash in your home. Under your code of morals, if I “feel the need” for a little more cash in my wallet that day, I can walk right into your home (if the door was unlocked) and help myself to some cash. After all, mathematics and basic economic principles tell me that you probably wouldn’t even be aware that the money was gone, lelt alone be harmed by my deed.

Also, while I am helping myself to your cash, your teenage daughter comes home early and finds me to be a cute and charming old man. And it just so happens that I am “feeling the need to spread a little seed” that day. You certainly would have no objection if I convinced her that having sex is fun and that there’s no reason why we shouldn’t do it. Besides, science tells me that there is no risk of pregnancy due to the fact that I am sterile and disease free.

Wow… If the Almighty God only shared the same moral code that you live by. How much “fun” we could all have?

 

[PJM]

NO! It is not a mortal sin! An act by itself cannot be a mortal sin, no matter how grave it is! If an act by itself were a mortal sin that would imply that we do not have free will, because we might be rejecting God without our knowledge.

Recipe for mortal sin:
1- Grave matter
2- Knowledge of it
3- Full consent

Reply:

My dear friend in Christ,

I’m confused

Your “recipe” for Mortal sin seems to suggest that you understand and accept the conditions for a sin to be so serious as to seperate us from fellowship with God, at least until we repent, Confess and reform.

And yet your statement suggest strongly that “one cannot” sin Mortally??? Are you really saying that "no single act, no matter how Grevious, no matter if it is done with a full understanding of the serious and wrongful action of the act, no matter that **with this **awareness and knowlwdge, one chooses to “do it” anyway, that such an action does not estrange one from a personall relationship with God? Is that really what you meant to say?

Or: Are you saying a serious act by itself, in and of itself, if not acted upon cannot be a “motoral sin?” This position too, is in error. Some acts are "intrincly"evil is also a RCC belief.

1 John 5: “16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.”

My dear friend in Christ, if either of these is your position, it is held in error.

God bless you,

PJM m.c.

 

[Cristiano]

Reply:

My dear friend in Christ,

I’m confused

Your “recipe” for Mortal sin seems to suggest that you understand and accept the conditions for a sin to be so serious as to seperate us from fellowship with God, at least until we repent, Confess and reform.

And yet your statement suggest strongly that “one cannot” sin Mortally??? Are you really saying that "no single act, no matter how Grevious, no matter if it is done with a full understanding of the serious and wrongful action of the act, no matter that **with this **awareness and knowlwdge, one chooses to “do it” anyway, that such an action does not estrange one from a personall relationship with God? Is that really what you meant to say?

Or: Are you saying a serious act by itself, in and of itself, if not acted upon cannot be a “motoral sin?” This position too, is in error. Some acts are "intrincly"evil is also a RCC belief.

1 John 5: “16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.”

My dear friend in Christ, if either of these is your position, it is held in error.

God bless you,

PJM m.c.

I am saying that an act can be grave matter (intrinsically evil) but by itself is not a mortal sin. Sin is the choice of the individual to separate himself from God through an act (behavior). Let me give you a couple of examples:

1- I do not know that by doing something I will procure an abortion (you can find a a particular case to be true)
2- I know that abortion is grave matter
3- I freely choose to act anyway

This is not mortal sin, because I did not know that what I was doing would result in something evil. However, it is still sin because I did something intrinsically evil.

1- I do know that by by doing something I will procure an abortion
2- I do not know that abortion is intrinsically evil
3- I freely choose to act anyway

This is not mortal sin, because I clearly knew the result of my action. However, I did not know that the result was intrinsically evil. This is still a sin because I did something intrinsically evil.

1- I do know that by by doing something I will procure an abortion
2- I know that abortion is grave matter
3- I freely choose to act anyway

This is mortal sin because the three conditions for mortal sin are met.

A final word of warning is for the following case:

1- I do know that by doing something I will procure an abortion
2- I know that abortion is grave matter
3- I freely choose to act anyway, but I really know that I do not mean to offend God by doing it.

This is still mortal sin! Because I know that I will offend God even if I would like not to.

 

[PJM]

Please, by all means. I know where I am and who my general audience is. It’s my desire to have an open and honest communication with Catholics, and I’ve visited many Christian internet forums, and this is the first one that stated explicitly that non-Christians were perfectly welcome, and I very much appreciate that. You don’t sound harsh at all, on the contrary, you sound very accepting of my personal philosophy, even if you don’t condone it.

My feelings on masturbation haven’t been derived on entirely my own values, but the values of those around me that I’ve grown up with, my friends and my family. I do believe in an absolute moral truth, in a certain sense, but I don’t believe that the Bible constitutes this moral truth. My morality stems from the belief that I own my body, and you own yours. I can do anything with my body, as long as I’m not directly infringing on your right to live your life.

Reply:

My dear friend in Christ,

It’s actually a very shrewd philosophy that you espouse. If your not seeking the truth, your much less likely to find it:thumbsup: On the other hand you may bump into it from time to time, but not to worry, you likely woun’t recognize it anyhow.

I wish I could know what you believe is true, but, heck, there isn’t any truth, so how can I?

Not only is your philosophy good, but it’s also very convient. "It’s only true, if I say its true." What a novel idea. Thanks! I wish I had thought of it first.

So the universe exist just for you or what? I mean you exist for a while, do as you please, and then just stop existing? Sounds really easy? By the way, where did the universe come from?

Oh, and the bit about your body being your’s. Sound great, but how does one get a body so that it can belong to them?

No right, no wrong, hope I don’t meet you on the highway, I’m guessing that man made rules are just that too, made to be broken, or is that they don’t apply to you either?

What a wonderful world we live in:shrug:

God bless you my friend. Wecome to the Catholic Forum.

PJM m.c.

 

[Jefe_Wyatt]

Suppose we are neighbors, and you were extremely wealthy, frequently keeping large uncounted amounts of cash in your home. Under your code of morals, if I “feel the need” for a little more cash in my wallet that day, I can walk right into your home (if the door was unlocked) and help myself to some cash. After all, mathematics and basic economic principles tell me that you probably wouldn’t even be aware that the money was gone, lelt alone be harmed by my deed.

Also, while I am helping myself to your cash, your teenage daughter comes home early and finds me to be a cute and charming old man. And it just so happens that I am “feeling the need to spread a little seed” that day. You certainly would have no objection if I convinced her that having sex is fun and that there’s no reason why we shouldn’t do it. Besides, science tells me that there is no risk of pregnancy due to the fact that I am sterile and disease free.

Wow… If the Almighty God only shared the same moral code that you live by. How much “fun” we could all have?

No, I’ve stated that I’m against theft, and if my daughter is a minor, she doesn’t have the capacity to consent, so that would be rape. Both of these actions cause suffering. I’m not going to even justify why, because you know the reasons as well as I. I’m unsure on why you would think I advocated such behavior. Please don’t state that this is the code I live by, because it is not.

Reply:
Not only is your philosophy good, but it’s also very convient. "It’s only true, if I say its true." What a novel idea. Thanks! I wish I had thought of it first.

So the universe exist just for you or what? I mean you exist for a while, do as you please, and then just stop existing? Sounds really easy? By the way, where did the universe come from?

Oh, and the bit about your body being your’s. Sound great, but how does one get a body so that it can belong to them?

No right, no wrong, hope I don’t meet you on the highway, I’m guessing that man made rules are just that too, made to be broken, or is that they don’t apply to you either?

What a wonderful world we live in:shrug:

God bless you my friend. Wecome to the Catholic Forum.

PJM m.c.

I don’t think I ever said “It’s only true if I say it’s true”. I don’t know where you got these ideas about my philosophy. That’s not what I believe at all. I search for the truth in everything I do. I use reason and try to rationalize my existence.

My body is mine, because if it wasn’t, whose else would it be? I don’t need to ask anyone’s permission to cut my hair or get a tattoo.

 

[SuperH]

Push all of this aside. Is it mortal, or not? Is it grave, or not?

We know it’s grave. That is indisputable.

I suggest reading a book that will give you a scriptural aspect to perhaps help you with masturbation, and other “natural” issues such as the view of women through lust, and other things which may drag you away from God’s grace.

Here is the title of the book:
“Every Young Man’s Battle : Strategies for Victory in the Real World of Sexual Temptation”

This book helped me solidify why I believe masturbation is bad. I am a twenty-four year old single male who has been masturbation free for quite some time. It is difficult, but it is achievable. Once you break the habit, you never need to do it again.

Here’s what you do:

1. What are you replacing WITH masturbation? Find out what you would be doing if you were not masturbating, and do it instead.
2. If you aren’t replacing something WITH masturbation, when you feel the urge to masturbate, do something else. Read a book (the Bible is a good place to start), play a video game, take a cold shower. Do anything, but masturbate.
3. Don’t stay around alone. Try to be around someone to curtail the urge.
4. Ask yourself what you’re about to do, and don’t do it.
5. Do this for two weeks, and you should be fine for the rest of your life.

If your body needs to “clean” itself, it will do so in due time.

If you are really that addicted, you know it - and can stop it with some prayer and willpower.

Good luck, my friend! My prayers go out to you!

 

[LilyM]

Trust me, I don’t offend easily, and I’m here because I want to share my viewpoints and hear yours.

No, all of my friends and family are not atheists. I have several Protestant friends, a good Muslim friend. My mom was raised Catholic, she does not belong to the Catholic Church but she still believes in God, my dad has always described himself as “more spiritual than religious”, and my brother is an atheist.

I incorporate God’s law into my beliefs as far as not killing, stealing, and some things of that nature. I’m not denying that my moral views don’t align with Christianity in some regards. But they don’t align with this one.

In other words your arguments boil down to

a) ‘it’s instinct’ - as if we humans can’t and don’t rise above our instinct all the time. And are never called to do so. Do you believe in monogamous marriage? Do you think lying is ok, because our instinct is to lie when it is to our advantage. Or punching people out when you get mad?

b) ‘everyone thinks it’s OK’ - as if morality is determined by a majority vote.

 

[Jefe_Wyatt]

In other words your arguments boil down to

a) ‘it’s instinct’ - as if we humans can’t and don’t rise above our instinct all the time. And are never called to do so. Do you believe in monogamous marriage? Do you think lying is ok, because our instinct is to lie when it is to our advantage. Or punching people out when you get mad?

b) ‘everyone thinks it’s OK’ - as if morality is determined by a majority vote.

No, that isn’t my argument at all. Please allow me to clarify it to you:

The reason I don’t think masturbation is immoral isn’t that it’s instinct, or that most people think it’s OK – it’s that it brings no harm upon others. It is my belief that I own my own body, so I may do what I please to it.

 

[TLDenmark]

I have had two confessors telling me the same thing. One of them was my parish priest, who I consider a holy and faithful priest, and his statement sounded very much like the one mentioned by Scapularkid. However I have also had another priest giving me some truly terrible advice. When confessing my use of porn and masturbation, he answered with advice such as “couldn’t you simply use tasteful porn“ and “most people get divorced over sexual dissatisfaction/boredom, so you will impede your future marriage by practicing complete chastity”. That experience left me speechless :bigyikes:.

 

[SuperH]

No, that isn’t my argument at all. Please allow me to clarify it to you:

The reason I don’t think masturbation is immoral isn’t that it’s instinct, or that most people think it’s OK – it’s that it brings no harm upon others. It is my belief that I own my own body, so I may do what I please to it.

Yes, you may do as you please to it. That is the whole encapsulating concept which morality stems from. We have our own free will to do anything we want. Good, bad, moral, or immoral.

There is sin in our world, God doesn’t prevent all sin from happening, right?

I could walk right up to you, bust out a .45, and blow your head off of your shoulders. I have that ability. But, I don’t do it. First, because I have nothing against you.

Secondly, it is immoral.

However - this brings up a valid point, right? That would be a harm against another person.

Consider this: Statistically (you can choose to believe or disbelieve this), those who practice masturbation are more likely to fantasize or utilize pornography, right? Have you ever tried to mindlessly masturbate? Try getting arousal from thinking about nothing else but you masturbating.

Those who utilize pornography are less likely to appreciate their significant others and their spouses. We have natural physical attractions, and those depictions may cause us to leave those we love, or to help separate us.

Furthermore, if we find ourselves masturbating while in a marriage, we will have a lesser desire to be intimate with our spouses. After masturbation (with orgasm), the desire to ejaculate diminishes. This lack of intimacy will more than likely impede with our abilities to maintain a good relationship. Breaking the habit now will certainly help him in the future.

Relationships are bidirectional. This isn’t just about “you.”

 

[teachccd]

No, that isn’t my argument at all. Please allow me to clarify it to you:

The reason I don’t think masturbation is immoral isn’t that it’s instinct, or that most people think it’s OK – it’s that it brings no harm upon others. It is my belief that I own my own body, so I may do what I please to it.

There is a flaw in your idea that you own your own body. Did you create yourself? And if you didn’t are you sustaining yourself or do you rely on others for physical sustenance? In other words, if everyone excercised your belief and killed themselves simutaneously would that not impact you in the least? If it would, then aren’t our decisions impacting to others? Your mother owned her own body, as you say, so if you were aborted how would you now “own” your own body if your mother who "owned"her own body got rid of the body that you “own” now?

My biggest question (and please forgive me if this sounds harsh) is what gives you the right to enjoy a life with a body that you ‘so call’ own and believe that it came from nowhere? Just a random selection process proves you life and now you have a “right” to ownership. What is intrinsic about “owning” a process of evolving substance? Aren’t you just in a long line of an evolutionary chain of events? When did meaning enter into this process and why?

And lastly, if we lived purely on instinct without any moral structure then shouldn’t we just mate with any female we see and reproduce as we wish? What does marriage have to do with our existence? And how could marriage be instictive when, here in California, we have so many fighting to change its definition? (and I realize that there are some animals who choose one mate for life but they don’t get married and some eat their young)

So many questions…respectfully confused…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Yes, you may do as you please to it. That is the whole encapsulating concept which morality stems from. We have our own free will to do anything we want. Good, bad, moral, or immoral.

There is sin in our world, God doesn’t prevent all sin from happening, right?

I could walk right up to you, bust out a .45, and blow your head off of your shoulders. I have that ability. But, I don’t do it. First, because I have nothing against you.

Secondly, it is immoral.

However - this brings up a valid point, right? That would be a harm against another person.

Consider this: Statistically (you can choose to believe or disbelieve this), those who practice masturbation are more likely to fantasize or utilize pornography, right? Have you ever tried to mindlessly masturbate? Try getting arousal from thinking about nothing else but you masturbating.

Those who utilize pornography are less likely to appreciate their significant others and their spouses. We have natural physical attractions, and those depictions may cause us to leave those we love, or to help separate us.

Furthermore, if we find ourselves masturbating while in a marriage, we will have a lesser desire to be intimate with our spouses. After masturbation (with orgasm), the desire to ejaculate diminishes. This lack of intimacy will more than likely impede with our abilities to maintain a good relationship. Breaking the habit now will certainly help him in the future.

Relationships are bidirectional. This isn’t just about “you.”

 

[Jefe_Wyatt]

Consider this: Statistically (you can choose to believe or disbelieve this), those who practice masturbation are more likely to fantasize or utilize pornography, right? Have you ever tried to mindlessly masturbate? Try getting arousal from thinking about nothing else but you masturbating.

Those who utilize pornography are less likely to appreciate their significant others and their spouses. We have natural physical attractions, and those depictions may cause us to leave those we love, or to help separate us.

Furthermore, if we find ourselves masturbating while in a marriage, we will have a lesser desire to be intimate with our spouses. After masturbation (with orgasm), the desire to ejaculate diminishes. This lack of intimacy will more than likely impede with our abilities to maintain a good relationship. Breaking the habit now will certainly help him in the future.

Relationships are bidirectional. This isn’t just about “you.”

First of all, I find that masturbation causes me in no way to appreciate my relationships any less. Nor do I know anyone for whom this is the case. But even if it was, that’s their choice. Harming yourself isn’t immoral, it’s a personal choice that you make.

That said, I don’t see masturbation as harming oneself at all for the reasons I stated. I don’t see how it can be moral to get a massage but immoral to masturbate, unless you bring the Bible into the equation. The fact that the Bible may dictate that it’s a sin doesn’t do anything for me. I want to know why it is a sin.

There is a flaw in your idea that you own your own body. Did you create yourself? And if you didn’t are you sustaining yourself or do you rely on others for physical sustenance? In other words, if everyone excercised your belief and killed themselves simutaneously would that not impact you in the least? If it would, then aren’t our decisions impacting to others? Your mother owned her own body, as you say, so if you were aborted how would you now “own” your own body if your mother who "owned"her own body got rid of the body that you “own” now?

My biggest question (and please forgive me if this sounds harsh) is what gives you the right to enjoy a life with a body that you ‘so call’ own and believe that it came from nowhere? Just a random selection process proves you life and now you have a “right” to ownership. What is intrinsic about “owning” a process of evolving substance? Aren’t you just in a long line of an evolutionary chain of events? When did meaning enter into this process and why?

And lastly, if we lived purely on instinct without any moral structure then shouldn’t we just mate with any female we see and reproduce as we wish? What does marriage have to do with our existence? And how could marriage be instictive when, here in California, we have so many fighting to change its definition? (and I realize that there are some animals who choose one mate for life but they don’t get married and some eat their young)

So many questions…respectfully confused…teachccd

Again, I will reiterate that I don’t believe in an entirely instinctual existence. I’m not trying to say that since masturbation is instinct that is what makes it moral.

I’m pro-life, so I don’t think my mom had the right to abort me. I think that my life started at conception. And yes, everyone else in the world may simultaneously choose to kill themselves, and this will impact me. But that is their choice, and their right. If you’re in an auction, and you outbid someone, you may impact them negatively, but it is your right to bid on the item.

As for my own ownership of my body, I believe this because if someone says that I don’t own my body, then it logically follows that someone or something has more of a say over what happens to it than I do. And this simply cannot be. I have free will, as you have stated, and what comes with this free will is my choice to masturbate or not.

Now, as has been pointed out, just because I have this choice does not make it right to choose to masturbate. But I think that the burden of proof lies on proving that it is wrong. It’s very difficult to prove that going to bed every night is a moral action, but there’s nothing saying it’s immoral, so we accept it as moral. Until someone can show me that by masturbating, I am actively hurting others, I refuse to believe that it is in any way immoral.

 

[teachccd]

I’m pro-life, so I don’t think my mom had the right to abort me. I think that my life started at conception.

But isn’t your philosophy that you own your body the same reasoning that pro-choice proponents utilize to build their case? Don’t these women say that it is their body and they have the right to choose what to do with their body? How can you so fervently hold one view while still maintaining the opposite?

When you speak of what is moral, where do you derive your values? You mentioned earlier that you received many values from friends and family. Then you mentioned that many of these people believe in God. Are you not, then, utilizing God given ethics? If everyone were an atheist and there was no God to ever influence anyone, then where would moral values come from? Who would ever be able to convince me that I can’t kill the first person who annoys me? And remember that the laws of the land are based on the Ten Commandments. Don’t animals kill for food? Can I kill someone if I’m hungry enough to eat them? Jeffery Dahmer had this problem and he went to jail. Why?

 

[SuperH]

You do not have to harm others or yourself for something to be immoral.

You can “simply” be harming your spiritual relationship with God. You likely do not have this problem, if you are not a believer. The OP has a concern relating to this, however.

In the religious sense, it is immoral. It may not be for you, but it should be for any practicing Christian or Catholic Christian.

 

[LilyM]

As for my own ownership of my body, I believe this because if someone says that I don’t own my body, then it logically follows that someone or something has more of a say over what happens to it than I do. And this simply cannot be. I have free will, as you have stated, and what comes with this free will is my choice to masturbate or not.

That’s a ridiculous argument - if I rape or murder you, at that moment I clearly have more say and more choice over what happens to your body than you do. If I didn’t, you would doubtless exert your superior say and superior choice to prevent yourself being murdered or raped.

It doesn’t follow that because at that moment I have more physical control or more choice over your body than you do, that I morally have any right to rape it or murder it.

 

[teachccd]

SuperH,

I’m sorry if some of my posts seem to be directed to Jefe_Wyatt’s views on morality. My intention is not to derail the thread but to emphasize the need for an informed conscience when discerning what is morally right. A person who does not believe in God does not have an absolute moral Truth as we might. So what can only be derived is a viewpoint. And one is as good as the next. I just want to plant some seeds while reminding the readers that masturbation is immoral when seen in the context of God and His reasons for the gift of our sexuality. thank you for bearing with me…teachccd