My dad, the heretic

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my dad is a member of a “catholic group” that promotes women priests, same sex “marraige” and mostly some kind of messed up magisterium of the layman. I almost got in a huge fight about it.im worried that he is going to go to hell, i took him to mass and he refuses to say the proper responses and he took communion even though he knows he isn’t allowed to. needless to say, that was a cluster. i’m 24 and staying with him for the summer while school is closed. i don’t know what to do.
 
my dad is a member of a “catholic group” that promotes women priests, same sex “marraige” and mostly some kind of messed up magisterium of the layman. I almost got in a huge fight about it.im worried that he is going to go to hell, i took him to mass and he refuses to say the proper responses and he took communion even though he knows he isn’t allowed to. needless to say, that was a cluster. i’m 24 and staying with him for the summer while school is closed. i don’t know what to do.
What is the name of this group? Why do they identify as “Catholic” if they do not answer to Rome?
 
my dad is a member of a “catholic group” that promotes women priests, same sex “marraige” and mostly some kind of messed up magisterium of the layman. I almost got in a huge fight about it.im worried that he is going to go to hell, i took him to mass and he refuses to say the proper responses and he took communion even though he knows he isn’t allowed to. needless to say, that was a cluster. i’m 24 and staying with him for the summer while school is closed. i don’t know what to do.
Do what you’re doing now: pray for him and love him. God will lead your father back to the true faith. God Bless you and continue your evangelizing.
 
What is the name of this group? Why do they identify as “Catholic” if they do not answer to Rome?
it’s called voice of the faithful. i think people have an emotional incentive to rationalize their sins unfortunately.
 
The only thing I can suggest is to pray for him and to very gently guide him in the truth. Remain steadfast in your own faith; pray and cling to Christ that his errors do not begin to contaminate your own mind. Be careful not to become angry or overly emotional during discussions, since that will call your maturity and the strength of your argument into question. Enlist other people to talk to him and to pray for him. And bide your time.

Prayer does work miracles in such cases. A few years ago my mother, who has been an extremely devoted Catholic all her life, suddenly was charmed by a certain priest in her native country who had amassed a significant following on social media. This priest kept saying Mass even after his Bishop forbade him, and he constantly berated the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church on youtube video. My mother, and many others like her, were drawn by his apparent commitment to traditional, pre-Vatican II church traditions. I personally tend to be pretty conservative myself in such matters, but I really thought that this reformist priest lost his credibility when he refused to obey his bishop and rebelling, continued to celebrate the sacraments. Padre Pio and other saints like St. Faustina would obey their superiors even if it went against what the Lord Himself told them in their visions.

For a while, I was in despair. My mother’s soul seemed in great peril after so many years of keeping the faith. I did several things. First of all, I refused to listen to the priest’s youtube sermons when my mother put them on and when I noticed that a local chapel was beginning to adopt too many ideas, I refused to attend church there. I believe that my prolonged silent resistance might have done some good, even though my mother never admitted it.

Second, I thankfully had a great-aunt who, as a nun in my mother’s native country, was very well informed of the entire situation. She spoke to my mother repeatedly and prayed for her continually (God Bless her!).

Third, I spoke to mom directly, but these discussions did not do too much good work. She was too fired up by all those passionate sermons to listen to me very closely, but once or twice she did admit that I had made a good point. This was probably the least effective thing that I did. But hey…that’s what you get when you think that you and your words can solve the problem instead of relying on God to help you out.

Fourth, and most importantly, I prayed. Not as much as I perhaps should have, but I did do some praying. After a couple of years (God does not work instantaneously, sometimes!) the miracle occurred. There was a visiting, intelligent exorcist at our parish, and I encouraged my mother to ask him about this particular priest. She went, and he informed her in no uncertain terms that this man had basically started a sect and that despite his claims, the Vatican fully approved of the sanctions imposed upon him. He mentioned that following this priest had reinstated an evil spirit into someone who had previously undergone a successful, Church-approved exorcism.

My mother, thankfully, appeared to lose most of her support for this priest, and to the best of my knowledge no longer listens to his youtube sermons. Praise the Lord!
 
my dad is a member of a “catholic group” that promotes women priests, same sex “marraige” and mostly some kind of messed up magisterium of the layman. I almost got in a huge fight about it.im worried that he is going to go to hell, i took him to mass and he refuses to say the proper responses and he took communion even though he knows he isn’t allowed to. needless to say, that was a cluster. i’m 24 and staying with him for the summer while school is closed. i don’t know what to do.
I think you should be hoping school starts soon. He sounds pretty messed up. Pray for him.:signofcross:
 
I think you should be hoping school starts soon. He sounds pretty messed up. Pray for him.:signofcross:
“messed up?” Why? simply because he has a different opinion than you do in regards to certain issues?
 
Before we call Dad “messed up,” maybe we ought to ask who’s paying the tuition? Or for the groceries this week? I’d just be curious about exactly what contribution OP is making to the family/situation at 24 years of age.
 
Before we call Dad “messed up,” maybe we ought to ask who’s paying the tuition? Or for the groceries this week? I’d just be curious about exactly what contribution OP is making to the family/situation at 24 years of age.
Good point Polar!
 
Thank you Prae. Also, for what it’s worth, maybe I don’t “say the proper responses” either; I happen to continue to say, “One in Being with the Father,” rather than “Consubstantial,” as it was good enough for decades and since no one understands what “consubstantial” means anyway. Does that make me a heretic? I’d be really careful about using that term, especially for my own father.
 
“messed up?” Why? simply because he has a different opinion than you do in regards to certain issues?
Now - before we go all off too far on this…let’s consider something carefully…
I don’t think this is really much about “opinions” but a certain logic (or lack thereof).

If a person identifies themselves FREELY with a certain group, it behooves them to hold to the principles and teachings of that group. Otherwise, be associated with that group? Would you agree with that?
If they FREELY choose to hold to beliefs that are clearly opposed to those principles and teachings, they should disassociate themselves from the group they disagree with. Would you agree with that?

If you agree with the above - then perhaps you will also agree that it is rather “messed up” (for lack of a better term) to claim affiliation with a given group while at the same time opposing the teachings of said group.

Peace
James
 
…I happen to continue to say, “One in Being with the Father,” rather than “Consubstantial,” as it was good enough for decades and since no one understands what “consubstantial” means anyway. …
Consubstantial means “one in being with”…😃

Peace
James
 
Now - before we go all off too far on this…let’s consider something carefully…
I don’t think this is really much about “opinions” but a certain logic (or lack thereof).

If a person identifies themselves FREELY with a certain group, it behooves them to hold to the principles and teachings of that group. Otherwise, be associated with that group? Would you agree with that?
If they FREELY choose to hold to beliefs that are clearly opposed to those principles and teachings, they should disassociate themselves from the group they disagree with. Would you agree with that?

If you agree with the above - then perhaps you will also agree that it is rather “messed up” (for lack of a better term) to claim affiliation with a given group while at the same time opposing the teachings of said group.

Peace
James
I agree with everything that you say except the use of “messed up” to describe someone. I mean, if someone drinks their own urine…that is messed up! (sorry for being so gross!) Thinking that it’s ok for gays to marry…well that may go against the morals of the Church but it’s not right to call Dad messed up because he happens to support gays marriage or female priests.
 
James – you are correct as to “One in being with”…so why change the Mass? My point was that “not saying the proper responses” doesn’t really equal into the equation of “being a heretic.”

Plus, it’s a lot easier to explain to a child what “one in being with” means. We need not have a BA in Philosophy to understand what the terms of the Mass mean.

However, I don’t think that it’s “messed up” to belong to an organization yet sometimes hold different beliefs. Say I’m Republican. Does that mean I am not allowed to think some of their platforms are wrong or should be changed?

Also, my overall point is that before we all slam Dad as “messed up,” and let OP call his father a heretic, maybe we need more information into what’s going on.
 
It’s only a few months, ignore it, offer it up, and get ready for leaving in september.
 
This sounds really awful, but remember to honour your father and try not to be hard on him, you don’t know what experiences have lead him to this, even though he is wrong, and sometimes attacking someone’s beliefs can make them more entrenched. Honestly I would just try and be non-confrontational as possible. Don’t take him to mass anymore certainly. Just take a step back and realize he might be trying to find his own way, and you can help best by being a good example. Only speak to him on the issue if he asks your opinion (after all, you have already made your belief clear from the sound of it - no need to rub it in), and if he is asking your opinion only in order to get into a fight, then quickly find a way to walk away any way possible without offending him.

By the way, the lines below have really helped me with my own father over the years.

Sirach 3:12-16
12 My child, help your father in his old age, and don’t give him grief during his life. 13 And if his understanding fails, be tolerant, and don’t shame him, because you have all your faculties. 14 Taking care of one’s father won’t be forgotten. It will be credited to you against your sins. 15 When you are in trouble, this will be recalled about you; like frost warmed by sunshine, so your sins will melt away. 16 Those who abandon their fathers are like blasphemers, and those who anger their mothers have been cursed by the Lord.
 
Sirach 3:12-16
12 My child, help your father in his old age, and don’t give him grief during his life. 13 And if his understanding fails, be tolerant, and don’t shame him, because you have all your faculties. 14 Taking care of one’s father won’t be forgotten. It will be credited to you against your sins. 15 When you are in trouble, this will be recalled about you; like frost warmed by sunshine, so your sins will melt away. 16 Those who abandon their fathers are like blasphemers, and those who anger their mothers have been cursed by the Lord.
hmmm…I wonder if his father’s group accepts Sirach as scripture! 🍿
 
it’s called voice of the faithful. i think people have an emotional incentive to rationalize their sins unfortunately.
Are you sure it isn’t Call to Action? The hardest people to reach are sometimes one’s own family and the best way to reach family is the silent witness not the confrontative one. Calling him a heretic and getting into a food fight over these things isn’t going to cause a change in him and his views. You are going to have to accept that you cannot change him (or anyone else). You can pray for him which I am sure you are doing but for him to change, he is going to have to do it. While you are with him this summer, try to do things together you agree on, always be respectful. try not to argue and pray for him to change his mind on these issues.
 
I agree with everything that you say except the use of “messed up” to describe someone. I mean, if someone drinks their own urine…that is messed up! (sorry for being so gross!) Thinking that it’s ok for gays to marry…well that may go against the morals of the Church but it’s not right to call Dad messed up because he happens to support gays marriage or female priests.
I agree that the term “messed up” is not very precise. Hypocritical would be better.
It is, at least to me, hypocritical to say “I’m Catholic” and then to reject the teachings of the Church.

Peace
James
 
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