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Peter_J
Guest
Alright. So … Does that makes the woman’s action right?
My Daily Mass chapel does not have pews or kneelers. Just folding chairs.
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pianistclare
Guest
No. It was a response and clarification. Not a justification. Just thought you’d like to know HIS perspective.
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Peter_J
Guest
OIC.
Thanks for clarifying – when I read your previous post, I wasn’t sure if you were agreeing with Brendan 64, or what exactly.
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pianistclare
Guest
He told it as a funny story, and we all did laugh initially. It wasn’t until he asked for a handmade rosary that I realized that deep down it hurt him.OIC.
FWIW, I don’t think Brendan meant any disrespect. I know him from his posts. He’s a good guy.
The men in black put up with a lot of smart alecks, I’m afraid. But then again, I’m sure this pious woman thought she was “schooling” him on prayer.
I tend to be amazed at what people say to the priests.
You just have to laugh sometimes.
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Brendan_64
Guest
I am. Sometimes things ought to be said. Too often parish priests are in a position where they are in effect above criticism, and they in their turn are quick to criticise when things are not to their liking.
Priests should respect the traditional devotions of their congregation, and devotion to Our Blessed Mother is very much at the core of traditional Catholic beliefs and practice. Too often there are priests who seem to ‘pooh-pooh’ traditional devotional practices as if they are outdated and superfluous, and can lead to the importance of such practices being ‘chipped’ away at in a parish. Priests are in a unique position and have to be careful about appearing to undermine devotional practices that play a very vital part in the faith and spiritual practices of their parishioners. It can be very hurtful when priests act in this way and there is often very little a parishioner can do about it.
I can’t help but think, “Good on you!” about the lady in question. She stood up and, as she perceived it, took the bull by the horns. We need more fighting spirit like that in our churches.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
All of you should attend Mass in a military environment. Apart from the military bases all of which have normally appointed chapels for the troops and Chaplains, When soldiers and marines are in the field, Mass is held out of doors with an altar often consisting of a couple of wooden planks on top of a couple of fuel drums. Of course there are the requisite altar cloths and vestments.
On board ship, which I can speak of with some authority, with the exception of large ships, such as aircraft carriers or cruisers, Mass is often held out of doors on a hatch top on a make shift altar. Chair or other types of seating? You’ve got to be kidding. Everyone stood - Officers and Men, and when it came time to kneel, it was on the bare deck. I remember doing so in the tropics, off the coast of Viet Nam aboard an ammunition ship.
The deck was so hot, it burnt our knees! Yet, during the Consecration and Holy Communion, everyone knelt without complaint. The Chaplain was Commander O’Conner, who made Admiral in the Navy Chaplain’s Corps, and after retirement from the Navy became Bishop of Scranton, PA and then Cardinal Archbishop of New York.
On board ship, which I can speak of with some authority, with the exception of large ships, such as aircraft carriers or cruisers, Mass is often held out of doors on a hatch top on a make shift altar. Chair or other types of seating? You’ve got to be kidding. Everyone stood - Officers and Men, and when it came time to kneel, it was on the bare deck. I remember doing so in the tropics, off the coast of Viet Nam aboard an ammunition ship.
The deck was so hot, it burnt our knees! Yet, during the Consecration and Holy Communion, everyone knelt without complaint. The Chaplain was Commander O’Conner, who made Admiral in the Navy Chaplain’s Corps, and after retirement from the Navy became Bishop of Scranton, PA and then Cardinal Archbishop of New York.
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coachdennis
Guest
If you reread pianistclaire’ story the priest did not “pooh-pooh” or in any way undermine a devotional practice. He stated he loved the Blessed Mother but had a special devotion to St. Francis? Where is the problem with that??
The priest said NOTHING to undermine the devotional practice of this or any parishioner. Just because someone does not pray or have a devotion to Mary the WAY YOU THINK THEY OUGHT TO does not make them a threat to other people’s faith.
The woman, in my opinion, was just plain rude, inappropriate, and should offer the priest an apology.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Perhaps she was rude and perhaps she ought to apologise to the priest, but I can sympathise with her and can see where she is coming from. I also admire her spirit, we need more spirited people in our churches, people who are willing to stand up and speak their minds.
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
The last thing we need is more self-righteous people who think that they can dictate how anyone, let alone a priest, *SHOULD *pray.
The fact that you defend these actions is disturbing.
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Brendan_64
Guest
And it can cut both ways. Some priests are also guilty of, either explicitly or implicitly, encouraging or discouraging certain ways of praying or certain devotional practices.The last thing we need is more self-righteous people who think that they can dictate how anyone, let alone a priest, *SHOULD *pray.
The fact that you defend these actions is disturbing.
As to finding my opinions on this woman’s actions disturbing. That’s good. It’s good for people to be disturbed now and then, it can help shake us out of our passivity.
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Cat
Guest
I had a particularly painful day yesterday, so I’m going to respond to this post.Kneeling without kneelers??? Oh, the AGONY!
Wondering what our suffering Lord on the cross thinks of these complaints!
Those of us with osteoarthritis don’t have a choice–we can’t kneel on a hard surface. It’s very painful to kneel on a padded kneeler, and a hard floor just isn’t possible. There are days when I try to kneel on that padded kneeler, and within a few seconds, I am forced to sit back on my pew. It’s not complaining–it’s physical limitation. You wouldn’t expect someone in a wheelchair to kneel, would you? People with osteo can’t do what they want to do.
Our pain is pretty much constant, 24/7. I have certain times of day when my knees don’t hurt, but for the most part, they hurt constantly and I’m always aware of them.
I have the misfortune of having an allergy to the NSAIDs, so I have very few medication options.
Even when I was younger, in my teens, I had painful knees that often didn’t work.
Again, I just want to make sure you understand–the pain isn’t the issue. We have constant pain, so a little more pain isn’t going to make us complain. The issue is that we cannot make our knees do the physical act of kneeling on a hard surface, and many of us can’t make our knees do the physical act of kneeling on a padded kneeler or soft surface. I hope that this helps you to understand others.
In case anyone is wondering, when I drop something on the floor, I use some kind of long tool to retrieve it, and if I can’t manage it, I just let it lie there until someone else is around. I do this at work, too. Embarrassing, but it’s my reality.
I have some advice for all of you who want to keep kneeling:
- If you have flat feet, abandon flip flops, flats, or going barefoot, and wear orthotics all the time that you are not sleeping. Don’t wear heels, either.
- Don’t gain weight. Stay as slim as you can.
- Don’t run or do any kind of physical activity that puts a lot of pounding on your knees.
- Keep your core strong, and make sure that your hips are strong.
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Cat
Guest
Bless you for your kind act to this dear soul! There have been times where I have had to lower myself down to the floor (not an easy task!) when the Confession line is really long. I just can’t stand for more than about 10 minutes. Thanks for seeing the need and taking steps to help.I think people make too big of a deal about this.
If there are no kneelers and you can’t kneel then just stand or sit. If someone says something to you about not being reverent or not loving Jesus then tell them to take a hike and mind their own business. If there are no chairs then grab a folding chair from one of the classrooms or bring one of those little folding “Amazing Pocket Chair” jobbers that people bring to the softball game.
youtube.com/watch?v=wu37pXqrZQc. Who cares what people think.
I watched an elderly lady with a cane struggle out of her car, up the steps and stand in line for confession a few weeks ago. I went into the cry room and grabbed a chair and set it in the narthex for her to sit. She was most grateful but you would have thought that I just spit on the tabernacle the way some people looked at me. I wanted to yell, “examine your conscience and mind your own business.”
We have a priest who lets us add our own intentions to the bidding prayers. Someday I’m gonna say, “That God grants people the ability to mind their own business, let us pray to the Lord.”
Lord hear our prayer.
-Tim-
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coachdennis
Guest
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TimothyH
Guest
Forcing devotions on someone else, priest or otherwise, isn’t right. Disrespecting a priest during the holy sacrifice of the Mass is not right.
The woman who made the comment about holy priests doesn’t have the slightest idea what holiness is. People confuse piety with holiness. Praying the rosary, genuflecting, receiving on the tongue, devotions to Mary; these are not holiness but piety. Piety can lead to holiness but it is not holiness. Holiness is a decrease in sin and an increase in virtue. Our primary vocation is to holiness. Every person has a universal call to holiness - to decrease in sin and increase in virtue. Praying the rosary and devotions to Our Lady are not holiness. Let’s get it right. The woman doesn’t have the slightest idea what she is talking about.
You can speak your mind about traditionalist practices if you want Brendan, but forcing your spirituality onto someone is the quickest way to turn them off to the Catholic Church. The root of the word spirituality is spirit - one’s spirituality is given to them by God the Holy Spirit. To tell people what their spirituality should be is to presume to do the work of the Holy Spirit.
I wish people would just let other people live their own lives instead of trying to force everyone to live someone elses (name removed by moderator)erfect, broken life.
-Tim-
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Peter_J
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
coachdennis, TimothyH & PeterJ- 
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Cat
Guest
Wonderful post. So full of truth. I will try to remember your words. Thanks so much.
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coachdennis
Guest
No. All you have done has come down to his level and showed as much reverence for the Mass as he did
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maryjk
Guest
Yes, it is.The last thing we need is more self-righteous people who think that they can dictate how anyone, let alone a priest, *SHOULD *pray.
The fact that you defend these actions is disturbing.
I may have to copy and paste this somewhere I can find it.
I get so tired of people telling me which particular devotions I should adopt.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Blimey!
I did actually agree that the lady was rude and ought to apologise to the priest.
But if I said that I didn’t admire her spirit, I’d be lying.
Anyway this is off-topic and has nothing to do with kneelers.
There does seem to be a worrying trend with some new churches to deliberately do away with kneelers, as if they are somehow ‘outdated’ (along with votive candles etc.) as if they are all part of the past and not quite ‘with the programme’ of ‘modern Catholicism’. It is very understandable that some people get a bit edgy when such things happen.
Is it a coincidence that in new churches, without kneelers, the use of incense seems to be a rare occurence?
I did actually agree that the lady was rude and ought to apologise to the priest.
But if I said that I didn’t admire her spirit, I’d be lying.
Anyway this is off-topic and has nothing to do with kneelers.
There does seem to be a worrying trend with some new churches to deliberately do away with kneelers, as if they are somehow ‘outdated’ (along with votive candles etc.) as if they are all part of the past and not quite ‘with the programme’ of ‘modern Catholicism’. It is very understandable that some people get a bit edgy when such things happen.
Is it a coincidence that in new churches, without kneelers, the use of incense seems to be a rare occurence?
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