My daughter is being incredibly frustrating!

[Monica4316]

If I had a daughter I would also want her to dress modestly and not wear makeup. I went through a phase sort of like your daughter. I didn’t feel comfortable wearing very revealing clothing but more because of my body than because of true modesty. But my clothing was still often immodest, and I wore TONS of makeup. In my case I was reacting to being bullied in my previous years in school. Over time I had a conversion to the faith, and found my worth in Christ. I actually stopped wearing makeup as an adult and I dress modestly now. I see what happened before came from a lot of insecurity. It was wrong but I think that’s why it occurred.

You are the mother and she lives at home, so you do have the authority to lay down rules. I think it would also be very important though (not saying you don’t do this!) to treat your daughter with much love. It doesn’t mean excusing what she is doing. Is there a way to explain to her the meaning behind modesty for example, or how immodesty actually doesn’t lead to respect from guys, in a way where she won’t feel “talked to”? For example Shari g something from your own life? It could go a long way to pray for her and talk to her about this in a gentle tone and explain the reasons in a way she won’t feel lectured. I am not all saying that the way you speak to her is unkind or lecturing, but with all the emotions she might still interpret it as such.

Also, if she grows in her relationship with Christ, these changes might happen just from that. Do you pray with your daughter, or talk about God? It might be easier to her to not talk about moral issues yet, just discover more of who Christ is, on a personal level… Once a person HSS this relationship, the moral issues might come easier I think.

God bless you!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

she does wear makeup well (she keeps watching tutorials, which I guess helps feed her obsession). It’s just that I feel that she’s too young to be doing that. School doesn’t allow makeup, anyway.

I don’t think we can afford college but I’m pretty sure she’s planning to go. She once said that she is interested in psychology or medicine when she was younger (can’t remember, but healthcare related). I think she’s planning to earn a scholarship, because she’s quite hard on herself (her idea of a difficult paper is when she gets a B for it). Sometimes I feel like she resents us because we cannot afford for her to slack off a little like other kids. Could be my imagination, though…

Thanks for the advice, I’ll try to compromise

You’ve said in this thread all your really proud of this daughter for is school, yet you have no idea what her plans are after she graduates. You praise your other daughter for being beautiful, but disparage this one for even trying with natural makeup that she wears well.

It seems that your daughter is begging for validation and approval that she isn’t getting at home. Frankly, it’s hard to blame her.

 

[Elena321]

she probably noticed how people treat her differently from others. I mean, it’s not uncommon to hear comments about beauty and ‘cuteness’ from others. But IMO relatives and sometimes dad are at fault. They will usually gush over my other daughter’s looks and then will look at my daughter and say stuff like “you grew taller”.

She isn’t conventionally pretty, don’t attack me, it’s true. I don’t know how I can get her to get over it, because I know personally that it’s not really something you shrug off…I have tried talking to her about it a year ago, that we love her equally and all. She said that I said that because I am obligated to. She’s really confusing. She says stuff like this, but when we try to include her, she gets moody and grumpy. It’s like she’s having her period 24/7

even Dad is annoyed with her now. I’ve just talked to him about it, told me that he doesn’t want to spend a day with a grumpy girl :crying:

:hug3:
That makes complete sense then why she’s acting the way she is.
Dad and relatives are the issue (as you know).
That’s why she then wears low cut tops etc to try to get validation/attention/noticed/“loved” off guys because she has learnt from her dad’s behaviour that “beauty = love” from men(or boys).
I would focus less on trying to change your daughter and instead focus on changing her dad.
He,or other relatives,could do with examining themselves why external beauty is so important to them that it is worth gushing over or complimenting and reflect on how it affects your other daughter (or any women that are not conventionally pretty).
TBH,I think your daughters grumpiness is partly due to your husbands different treatment of her sister.
Adding on top of that,any teenager hormonal factors or possibly even depression…

 

[josh987654321]

.

May I ask how she got the money for her own makeup?

The modesty bit is a bit hard because I don’t know what peoples expectations are, I am also the same, I think I am fairly lenient and benefit of the doubt type when it comes to modesty, but some things, I know when I see it.

The key to modesty I believe is the ‘why’ or the ‘reason’ for what they wear, I believe women can still easily dress modestly today while also looking good.

I can’t offer much advice, never been in your situation before, however, I would recommend praying about it, does she pray? or simply giving her a Rosary, or a New Testament and Psalms book, something small like that I believe can make a huge difference, it’s all about sowing the seed, even the smallest seed, can grow into something incredibly beautiful if it’s the right seed, planted in the right soil at the right time.

The other thing I would mention, is that a lot of parents encourage their teenage kids to start working while at school, and with work comes money, and with money comes independence, and often at a time when they lack the mental faculties when it comes with how to best use that independence and new found freedom. And you can’t exactly tell someone what they can and cannot buy with their own money that they worked for.

So I would not recommend her working or anything until she finishes school, nor her own vehicle until she finishes school.

I truly think the key is how she is in regards to the faith. Do you go to Mass together? Does she understand the Mass? Does she believe in the real presence in the Eucharist? Do you talk about the faith sometimes in light conversation? do you make the sign of the Cross or say a short pray before eating dinner? (Even if none of the others do it, you can still make the sign of the cross at dinner, and others may follow by your example, plus I enjoy doing it even if nobody else wants to).

Anyway, just some of my thoughts,

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Lea101]

You’ve said in this thread all your really proud of this daughter for is school, yet you have no idea what her plans are after she graduates. You praise your other daughter for being beautiful, but disparage this one for even trying with natural makeup that she wears well.

It seems that your daughter is begging for validation and approval that she isn’t getting at home. Frankly, it’s hard to blame her.

I kind of agree. Although OP said that she doesn’t like her wearing more obvious makeup, and ‘natural’ makeup is still against the school rules (even though she said she allows concealer…?)

Kind of sucks that you don’t remember what she is interested in. When I was interested in journalism, my dad kept bringing it up. And even then, he is not really a good father.

This is not meant to put you down but I hope you see that there is this whole “(insert younger daughter’s name) is so pretty, so sweet, so talented” that goes on in the family. And I know that feeling. I am a pretty weird looking person, and my little sister is cute bundle of cuteness. if she is anything like me, she probably noticed that good looking people get treated better and could be trying to compensate for it. I did not want validation, but I just wanted to not gross people out. Immodest outfits are amazing at diverting attention ("don’t pay too much attention to my face, look at my body)

Of course, she might just like the style of the clothes. Singapore is flipping hot and humid too.

While you can’t change this, it would be nice if you encourage people around you to praise her a bit more. She’s doing well in school-how about that?

:hug3:
That makes complete sense then why she’s acting the way she is.
Dad and relatives are the issue (as you know).
That’s why she then wears low cut tops etc to try to get validation/attention/noticed/“loved” off guys because she has learnt from her dad’s behaviour that “beauty = love” from men(or boys).
I would focus less on trying to change your daughter and instead focus on changing her dad.
He,or other relatives,could do with examining themselves why external beauty is so important to them that it is worth gushing over or complimenting and reflect on how it affects your other daughter (or any women that are not conventionally pretty).
TBH,I think your daughters grumpiness is partly due to your husbands different treatment of her sister.
Adding on top of that,any teenager hormonal factors or possibly even depression…

I’m not too sure if the father has a huge role in this…based on my experience, I could care less about what my dad thought of me, I care about the general population…I had most of his features too

But the father favouring the sister can be really tough for her, especially if it happened when she’s younger, and less mature. (She can feel like she is not enough for dad and hence, not enough for everyone)

but if she has issues with him, maybe it’s a good idea to grab your husband’s ear and force him to communicate with her. If she still refuses to budge, then maybe encourage your son to hang out with her more. You said they get along. At least there’s one member in the family she is ok with. I’m quite close with one of my brothers, I can rant to him about school and stuff. While i don’t tell him really personal stuff, I still enjoy his company and we share the same humour (I like superheroes too!)

 

[LightBound]

With the exception of Lea, I think most us the replies are coming from those in the US and Canada, and our culture differs a little when it comes to older teens and independence. I would allow her to wear light make-up (base, eyes, cheeks) along with the concealer and lip gloss, as long as she’s watching tutorials on how to apply it to bring out her best features, instead of showing off the color of the make-up. Just forbidding it because you personally don’t like it isn’t going to further your bond with her. I would rather my daughter know how to properly wear makeup and use it to cover flaws and enhance her beauty instead of forbidding it and having her resent me because she feels it added to self-esteem problems. This is probably not the hill you want to die on when it comes to parenting. Modesty is a hot topic on this forum…you will find people insisting that long skirts and elbow length sleeves are the only thing that is modest all the way to “as long as your bum is covered, short shorts are fine anywhere”. Find the middle ground on that one. Ask yourself this…will it really matter in 5 or 10 years that I let her wear make-up (outside of school) that made her feel better about herself? To her it probably will. It will mean that mom listened to her insecurities about her appearance and helped her with her self-esteem. Build her up from the inside out, but then let her make the decisions about what she wears on the outside, (unless it’s those shorts that show off her bum or cleavage-baring tops or blue eyeshadow).

 

[Aggie414]

I’m not a parent so take this for what it is – my opinion!

I would suggest lightening up your restrictions a bit. I do think she should NOT get away with being rude or disrespectful, but she is a teenager and wanting to spread her wings a bit and become more self-sufficient.

Instead of just blatantly banning makeup or being general about “modest clothing” set limits. Define what clothing is appropriate and then let her choose. You might say “shorts have to come to so many inches above the knee” or “your tops must cover your mid section completely” and then let her make choices within your guidelines.

As far as makeup goes, again set boundaries. You’ve said her makeup application is appropriate you just don’t like it. Well, you’ve got to let her start exploring her personality a little bit and making some choices for herself based on her likes/dislikes or she’s going to go crazy when she’s out from under your control and that could lead to some horrible consequences.

 

[1lucy1]

May I ask how she got the money for her own makeup?

The modesty bit is a bit hard because I don’t know what peoples expectations are, I am also the same, I think I am fairly lenient and benefit of the doubt type when it comes to modesty, but some things, I know when I see it.

The key to modesty I believe is the ‘why’ or the ‘reason’ for what they wear, I believe women can still easily dress modestly today while also looking good.

I can’t offer much advice, never been in your situation before, however, I would recommend praying about it, does she pray? or simply giving her a Rosary, or a New Testament and Psalms book, something small like that I believe can make a huge difference, it’s all about sowing the seed, even the smallest seed, can grow into something incredibly beautiful if it’s the right seed, planted in the right soil at the right time.

The other thing I would mention, is that a lot of parents encourage their teenage kids to start working while at school, and with work comes money, and with money comes independence, and often at a time when they lack the mental faculties when it comes with how to best use that independence and new found freedom. And you can’t exactly tell someone what they can and cannot buy with their own money that they worked for.

So I would not recommend her working or anything until she finishes school, nor her own vehicle until she finishes school.

I truly think the key is how she is in regards to the faith. Do you go to Mass together? Does she understand the Mass? Does she believe in the real presence in the Eucharist? Do you talk about the faith sometimes in light conversation? do you make the sign of the Cross or say a short pray before eating dinner? (Even if none of the others do it, you can still make the sign of the cross at dinner, and others may follow by your example, plus I enjoy doing it even if nobody else wants to).

Anyway, just some of my thoughts,

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

She does not work yet, but she will after she is done with finals. We are not wealthy and she needs the money if she wants university,
She uses her allowance to buy stuff. We give the kids fixed amounts each month, and that will cover transport, food, etc. I guess she uses it for shopping…

She goes to mass alone (she really goes, though, she doesn’t skip it). I don’t know how strong her faith is. Probably weak, since she’s a teen. She had catechism class at our parish, so she knows the Church well. I don’t think she cares that much, in my opinion. She is upset with the church on its stance on things. I’m trying to give her space, since I understand that talking about religion angers her.

 

[Lea101]

With the exception of Lea, I think most us the replies are coming from those in the US and Canada, and our culture differs a little when it comes to older teens and independence. I would allow her to wear light make-up (base, eyes, cheeks) along with the concealer and lip gloss, as long as she’s watching tutorials on how to apply it to bring out her best features, instead of showing off the color of the make-up. Just forbidding it because you personally don’t like it isn’t going to further your bond with her. I would rather my daughter know how to properly wear makeup and use it to cover flaws and enhance her beauty instead of forbidding it and having her resent me because she feels it added to self-esteem problems. This is probably not the hill you want to die on when it comes to parenting. Modesty is a hot topic on this forum…you will find people insisting that long skirts and elbow length sleeves are the only thing that is modest all the way to “as long as your bum is covered, short shorts are fine anywhere”. Find the middle ground on that one. Ask yourself this…will it really matter in 5 or 10 years that I let her wear make-up (outside of school) that made her feel better about herself? To her it probably will. It will mean that mom listened to her insecurities about her appearance and helped her with her self-esteem. Build her up from the inside out, but then let her make the decisions about what she wears on the outside, (unless it’s those shorts that show off her bum or cleavage-baring tops or blue eyeshadow).

It’s honestly not that different, besides the fact that our schools don’t allow makeup (secondary schools, 13-16/17) so some teenagers might not feel the need to buy lots of products . But for stuff like prom, we go all out

My “everyday makeup” is basically a tinted moisturizer, concealer, powder, blush, mascara, eyeliner and lipstick. And nobody can tell! So really, just tell your daughter makeup is fine, just not too heavy-no kardashian/ “instagram” makeup, girls who wear that all look the same, lol

You can slightly relax modesty standards (“you can wear shorts, but no buttcheeks should be falling out”). It’s better than nothing, right?

 

[annie17on12]

she does wear makeup well (she keeps watching tutorials, which I guess helps feed her obsession). It’s just that I feel that she’s too young to be doing that. School doesn’t allow makeup, anyway.

I don’t think we can afford college but I’m pretty sure she’s planning to go. She once said that she is interested in psychology or medicine when she was younger (can’t remember, but healthcare related). I think she’s planning to earn a scholarship, because she’s quite hard on herself (her idea of a difficult paper is when she gets a B for it). Sometimes I feel like she resents us because we cannot afford for her to slack off a little like other kids. Could be my imagination, though…

Thanks for the advice, I’ll try to compromise

Just a side comment on the words in red. I think a lot of parents think that they should control their children until they (the parents) are ready to let go. An example is my father. He told my brother growing up that he plays video games too much. He took games away from him and continually told him he was wasting time. Now he is going to graduate with a computer science degree where the starting pay is 80K a year. Just because you cannot understand your daughter doesn’t mean she is wasting her time or feeding and “obsession”. To me, it sounds like your daughter has a gift with makeup and should pursue a career as a makeup artist. A friend of a friend of mine makes good money doing so. Please just whatever your do, encourage her to follow her talents even if you don’t understand them. It is more important to let your children know you love them, than it is to control their path. The greatest gift you can give to your daughter besides God is the freedom to be who God made her to be. God bless.

 

[EasterJoy]

Any advice on what dad should do? My husband really makes an effort.

I remember an incident where he asked if she could come along with him to buy us dinner. She looked willing but then my other dd just had to beg to come along. Then my daughter snapped back into the quiet brooding girl she is :whacky:

The answer ought to be: No, your sister is going to go out with dinner with your father. You are going to spend time with me. We will make sure you get your turn to have time alone with him, too. You are becoming lovely young women, and it is time you learned what the attention of a good man who cares about you is like.

Then your husband ought to take your daughter out, he ought to treat her with the respect due to a grown woman and show her how a good man treats women with respect. He shouldn’t try to ask about her feelings, but just talk with her about things that interest her and learn what she has to teach him about her day-to-day life. If he has some correction to make, he ought to pointedly defer those to another time. After all, he would not choose a dinner out or a walk in the park with you to correct differences he has with how you act, would he? The point is for your daughters to become accustomed to being treated well by a grown man, and to prefer it to being treated badly. They ought to experience what it feels like to have a man care about what they think and say and like, and like it better than spending all their time pleasing what the man wants them to look like, think, and say.

That is how women get the strength, when they meet a man who asks for what the man should not ask for, to tell him that he is out of line and needs to treat them with respect. When a woman knows what better treatment is like and when* her father *lets her know she is worthy of that kind of treatment, she will be strong enough to insist on that.

If she has brothers, they ought to be required to talk to her in the way that decent men speak to women, too: that is, as daughters of the Lord who are worthy of respect even if they fall from respecting themselves.

When your daughter has felt the respect of her father, then you can teach her that modesty is unfortunately the way that she will need to signal what sort of man she is trying to attract. Do have an ongoing conversation with her, however, when it comes to how she presents herself in public: that is, what is the current fashion and what is going beyond that into attracting self-centered and disrespectful men who will treat her like eye candy instead of an intelligent person worthy to be listened to and respected.

PS She’s 16. Read up on adolescent neurology, and realize that she’s not to blame if she seems a bit un-wired.

 

[Lou2U]

The answer ought to be: No, your sister is going to go out with dinner with your father. You are going to spend time with me. We will make sure you get your turn to have time alone with him, too. You are becoming lovely young women, and it is time you learned what the attention of a good man who cares about you is like.

Then your husband ought to take your daughter out, he ought to treat her with the respect due to a grown woman and show her how a good man treats women with respect. He shouldn’t try to ask about her feelings, but just talk with her about things that interest her and learn what she has to teach him about her day-to-day life. If he has some correction to make, he ought to pointedly defer those to another time. After all, he would not choose a dinner out or a walk in the park with you to correct differences he has with how you act, would he? The point is for your daughters to become accustomed to being treated well by a grown man, and to prefer it to being treated badly. They ought to experience what it feels like to have a man care about what they think and say and like, and like it better than spending all their time pleasing what the man wants them to look like, think, and say.

That is how women get the strength, when they meet a man who asks for what the man should not ask for, to tell him that he is out of line and needs to treat them with respect. When a woman knows what better treatment is like and when* her father *lets her know she is worthy of that kind of treatment, she will be strong enough to insist on that.

If she has brothers, they ought to be required to talk to her in the way that decent men speak to women, too: that is, as daughters of the Lord who are worthy of respect even if they fall from respecting themselves.

When your daughter has felt the respect of her father, then you can teach her that modesty is unfortunately the way that she will need to signal what sort of man she is trying to attract. Do have an ongoing conversation with her, however, when it comes to how she presents herself in public: that is, what is the current fashion and what is going beyond that into attracting self-centered and disrespectful men who will treat her like eye candy instead of an intelligent person worthy to be listened to and respected.

PS She’s 16. Read up on adolescent neurology, and realize that she’s not to blame if she seems a bit un-wired.

This is excellent advice, OP.

Lou

 

[Monica4316]

I agree with EasterJoy… It could help your daughter to.understand that immodesty attracts the wrong type of.guy who wouldn’t respect her. There’s even a study that found when men saw immodestly dressed women, the part of the brain that was activated is the same that is linked to tool use. Of course decent men would still show respect since we are not animals. But men who are selfish or given to impure habits, might go with it.

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree with EasterJoy… It could help your daughter to.understand that immodesty attracts the wrong type of.guy who wouldn’t respect her. There’s even a study that found when men saw immodestly dressed women, the part of the brain that was activated is the same that is linked to tool use. Of course decent men would still show respect since we are not animals. But men who are selfish or given to impure habits, might go with it.

There is a book that came out a long time ago now that is still considered a standard on the subject: *Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls *by Mary Pipher. She is one of the researchers who noted that girls and young women who spend a good deal of time with their families and especially with their fathers are far less vulnerable to seeking out ill-advised relationships with men their own age. It does seem to be a matter of learning what it is like to have a man whose attention you want treat you very well. It is harder to hold out for that if you haven’t experienced it.

The other thing that poisons a healthy sense of self-possession and self-direction in young women are when the leaders of their social groups are vain, toxic and manipulative. No one under 18 is ready to handle a life of covert aggression and intrigue complicated enough to pass for court life under a decadent monarchy. Young women do better in groups that have a healthy social life aimed at mutual support and a common goal. Excepting that the young women should share a real enjoyment of it, the exact shared activity really doesn’t matter that much. Regular exercise is good, but if your daughter is into photography and has a healthy group of photographer friends, that works, too.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Maybe you can suggest some alternative outfits that would fit both your standards. Ex.: She could wear opaque leggings with a shorter skirt. Or she could wear a tank top underneath a lower-cut or backless shirt. I frequently wear leggings when I wear a knee-length skirt and they can look very nice, especially if the skirt is fairly plain.

 

[lax16]

I would call in to Mother Miriam’s show on Catholic radio. She offers interesting advice when it comes to mothers and daughters.