My daughter is marrying an athiest

[Sheila_J]

All:
I could use a little advice…
I have a daughter who is in her third year of college. She started studying biology and mathematics but switched last year to evolutionary biology and paleontology.

My daughter, like many 20 year olds, is not very responsible. I have had problems trying to instill in her some basic skills (keeping apartment reasonably clean, balancing a checkbook)

Last summer I moved her into a smaller, less expensive apartment as she had trashed the nicer/larger apartment I had provided for her. I recently closed her checking account as she was seriously overdrawn and she has repeatedly refused to monitor her spending.

Last year, she asked me about what kind of a marriage I would approve. I told her one that was in the Church or could be blessed by the Church. She wanted me to meet a man she wanted to marry, without my husband. I told her I would meet him with her father as this is a big step.

I have since found out that this man is an athiest, that my daughter thinks she is an athiest too. My daughter wanted me to approve of the marriage and I said that I did not approve. This corresponded in time with me closing her checking account and asking her to set up one in her own name, submit a budget to me for discussion…and I would figure out how much we could give her to support her.

I have since been told by the boy and her that my husband and I are not to talk to her or him ever again or they will sue us.

Today - after giving me a venomous speach about how evil I am, my daughter seems to want to make contact with me. It appears that being without money is the motivating factor, but she may miss both of us as well…

All of this happened as my father was dying (I buried him yesterday) She was completely unconcerned with her grandfather. My father asked for her several times on his deathbed. I tried to contact her and she did not respond. So… I am also very angry with her at this time. I feel that the only reason she wants to contact us is because she wants us to pay for the last year of her school… I know that this is probably wrong, but she has been difficult her entire life. She has dabbled in the occult, in new age, in Tarrot cards… All of this I continually removed from her room. She spent two years at a military school because her mouth became so venomous and she refused to do her school work or clean her room. (We are not talking about a child’s messy room, we are literally talking about a health hazard…) While in military school, she really seemd to come around. Now it seems all forgotten and she has once again decided to “go to the dark side”. My other daughter is just fine… I feel like such a failure as a parent. I probably should not have closed her account, but I had to get her attention. I also could not afford to wreck my credit as I run a business and I can’t get loans with lots of unpaid obligations that are traced to me through my daughter.

I told her that I love her and that I can give her some financial support. However, I really do not want to make it easy for her to live with this guy so that I am indirectly supporting 1 and maybe two athiests…

I also do not want to reward her with money when she comes back to us. It does not seem fair to hand out money to someone who is continously tearing the family apart while the other daughter is working her way through school and asks for so little.

Any suggestions?

 

[puzzleannie]

All:
I could use a little advice…
I

Any suggestions?

if you are supporting her and paying her way at college she lives where you decide. if you don’t like the way she is living withdraw your support, of course with proper notice, and by this time she should be in no doubt about your feelings and expectations. You will have some problems making this sink in since you have bailed her out and enabled her bad habits so many times in the past, but if you keep doing so, you will bear some of the responsibility for her errors.

 

[1ke]

Sheila,

I wouldn’t give her one red cent. She is manipulating you and you are falling for it.

She is an adult. She would get $0 from me from now on since she had decided to live her life in a way that goes against the faith.

I would not break off contact with her, you can continue to converse via phone/email, maybe meet on neutral ground such as at a restaurant for lunch. I would not let her in my home, especially not with the boyfriend. I woulnd’t cut off contact unless she again becomes abusive towards you. I mean really-- threatening to sue you for talking to them? Your daughter’s boyfriend is a Class A Idiot.

You are not to blame for her actions-- all of them freely chosen. You are not a bad parent. You are not a failure.

Keep praying for her-- but don’t let her manipulate you into giving her money.

 

[DJgang]

Sounds like she wants to be an adult…stop giving her money and let her be one.

And you are evil? According to an atheist? Please!

Sounds like she’s spent her whole life being a rebel…let her go. And if she’s an atheist, she has no business being married in the church.

Tough love.

Love her, but don’t give in to her. How can she seriously expect you to dish out money to her by her acting this way???

I don’t understand these young adults today…I never asked my parents for money, even while in college, I worked…

I will pray for your situation.

 

[KCtheMommy]

Yep, keep on trucking!

You are doing the best thing you ever could for your daughter. Teaching her some self-responsibility and that you aren’t her personal financier, doormat, available at a whim…but are actually a human being with feelings who LOVES her…she will hopefully come around. Be patient, it can take a while.

Unfortuantely, she’s a stubborn kid who needs to make mistakes to learn from them, not listen to the sound advice of her mom & dad (because you just appear controlling to her anyway).

Do NOT pay for a wedding to someone you especially don’t approve of. I love the whole “you contact us we’ll sue you – that is unless we contact you because we have no money.”

I just want to give you a big hug. I am so sorry, and this has to be SO hard on you as a mom. I really respect your strength in not being manipulated for money. Keep your heart as open as possible to the love of your daughter, but let her know it’s her love you want, not the chance to support her. Supporting a child into adulthood is not love, that’s parental responsibility – of which you have surpassed. There are no laws, religious, federal or local that states you have to provide a large apartment, a checking account, or pay for college. You did that out of love and kindness. When she cares to return your love with love AND respect she can also get some of the benefits – including a mom and dad willing to help.

I have watched this happen in my family and friend’s family – unrelenting support, financial and otherwise, even whent he person is being a hideous beast of a human. It only ruins the person who takes, and takes, and takes…

You are doing the best thing.

 

[KCT]

Last summer I moved her into a smaller, less expensive apartment as she had trashed the nicer/larger apartment I had provided for her. I recently closed her checking account as she was seriously overdrawn and she has repeatedly refused to monitor her spending.

This corresponded in time with me closing her checking account and asking her to set up one in her own name, submit a budget to me for discussion…and I would figure out how much we could give her to support her.

Sorry, but it sounds like she has not learned to, or been expected to, be responsible. If she has her own account, with her own money, I wouldn’t ask for a budget. Not my business. If she’s living on your money, then yes, she has to account for the money she spends. If she refuses, give her no money. If you do, you’re enabling her to live this way for the rest of her life. Make her grow up and make her start now. —KCT

 

[deb1]

All:
I I recently closed her checking account as she was seriously overdrawn and she has repeatedly refused to monitor her spending.

?

I am curious as to how you can legally close her checking account? My 18 year old son has his own checking account. ONe day, he wanted me to double check his balance while I was at the bank. I was told that unless he come in and sign some paper work I couldn’t do check his balance. I understand this as he is a legal adult. I certainly couldn’t close his account or even know his balance unless he wants me to.

Your daughter can get loans to pay off her college and she can get a job to pay for food and board. Direct her to do these things. That is how my son is paying for his college.

 

[Sr_Sally]

My parents did give me spending money in college and paid for my schooling, but I also had a job and my very own checking account. I also wasn’t bad-mouthing them, threatening to sue, or hanging out with atheists (well, maybe a few agnostics, but my boyfriend was Christian).

At 20 she is almost ready to graduate and certainly capable of getting a job, opening her own bank account and renting her own apartment. At 20 many women, even today, are totally on their own–sometimes married and with a family also.

Keep calling her, sending her cards, inviting her out to lunch, but don’t give her any more money. Don’t ask for a budget, don’t co-sign her loans, don’t sign for her apartments.

How you parent daughter 1 and daughter 2 will be very different since they are different people. Don’t feel that whatever you do or give to one you must do the same for the other. She will feel the consequences of her actions, in your actions. But please don’t stop praying for her!

 

[Sheila_J]

To clarify on the account - It was a joint account so that my name was on it as well. I have had it with her since I set it up when she was a minor going to an out of state military academy about 5 years ago. I just never took my name off of it.

When she was in military school and the first year of college, she was fine handling money - a couple of overdrafts, but nothing large. Last 18 months have been a problem… so I finally closed it. Should have done it earlier I know.

I paid for my college by enlisting in the Army and going with the GI bill - so I agree with you - she can figure out how to pay.

Counselors in the past have told me she may have a personality disorder, so I have probably been too lenient.

Mostly, I had hoped with military school - I don’t know how much tougher tough love can get - she would improve. She did… drastically… However, she returned to her old ways when she got back into the real world. This boyfriend has a great pull on her. He is an athiest who comes from a Jewish background. My daughter said that he showed her that there was no basis in the old testament to expect anyone like Jesus to come along. That coupled with all that she has learned in her science classes has led her to believe that there is no God.

I asked her to tell me what the boyfriend said to her and what she found in science class so that I could get a different take on it for her. She refused to do this…She just knows too much…and I am too stupid to even understand her questions.

My husband and I have decided to not give her any money for now. We want her to re-establish her relationship with us first…
My husband says that we do not have to prove we love her by giving her more money. I think he was right.

The boyfriend was insulted that I repeatedly refused to see him without my husband…that is what started this ugly mess. That is how it will have to stay. I will not see him without my husband being present. Especially since he threatened litigation.

I have other friends who say she sounds bi-polar and that I should do whatever it takes to maintain contact so that worse things do not happen. I do not want to do this right now.

The worst part of all of it is that she has been so nasty the last few weeks that I really have no overwhelming urge to act. I sent a policeman to her apartment to do a welfare check - since she was not responding to me. She got the businesscard from the policeman and sent me a nasty e-mail saying that she did not believe that I loved her because I sent police to her apartment and closed her checking account. I also stopped payment on her internet and phone bills since she refuses to contact us with anything but insults and a demand for money.

The hardest thing for me was to make up a story to my Dad on his deathbed as to why he could not see her. I told him she was on a school fieldtrip and I could not reach her. She still has not said anything to indicate that she cares that he has died. This, more than anything makes me unwilling to just give her money. I believe this to be a good indication that she cannot see beyond her own needs right now.

 

[deb1]

It sounds as if you are doing everything that you can do for her. I don’t have any advice except to let her pay her own way. If she isn’t borderline this might force her to grow up. Perhaps she will realize how unfair that she has been and apologize.

If she does have a borderline personality disorder then you have my sympathies. I am certain that my mother had this disorder and I strongly suspect that my younger brother does also. Such people are difficult to deal with and can make those who love them miserable.

Keep the lines of communication open but understand that she has to want to get help. It took me years to realize that I couldn’t fix my mother and I am going through the same sort of emotions with my baby brother.

 

[Sina]

Must be hard for you Sheila. I know you are doing the best you can and when your daughter grows up, she will realize how much you do for her.

I realize she is in college and in need of your financial support, but you might need to give her some more responsibility. Maybe she needs a part time job ( I know this can be hard on study habits ). She seems to have to learn things on her own.

From my own experience, my parents had me out on my own when I was 20 ( even though I was still in university ) and I had to get a part time job to pay for my accommodations. They paid for tuition.I became more thankful and responsible, as hard as it was.

She might feel like she is an atheist (and this can happen to so many people in different points in their lives) and all you can really do is pray for her.

Hopefully she will not actually marry this man. Many things happen when people finish school and they hopefully will go their separate ways… I don’t know. I understand your pain there though.

What hurts you the most from all of this? I noticed your thread title is that she is marrying an atheist. Is that the worst part of everything that is going on between you and your daughter?

 

[Sheila_J]

The most painful part for me is that I have tried for years to keep her on the straight and narrow. I feel like I have moved heaven and earth to try and help her with her faith. She just always seems to select the worst thing around.
The faith was the most precious thing I could give to her and she has rejected it. I am devastated.
Also, for the last two years she has said things to me that I would not say to my worst enemy - hateful things.
She has also criticized my marriage, saying I should of left long ago. (Don’t you love it, 20 and a marriage expert).Yes my husband and I have had our difficult times, who hasn’t… but we stayed together. I had hoped she would learn the lesson that a family stays together through thick and thin. What she got from all my effort to hold everything together was that I am mentally deranged and should have left long ago.
I feel betrayed…
She did so well right after her stint in military school, I thought I had finally managed to get her on the right road, now this.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Sheila-
I went through a phase very much like the one she is going through right now. At the same age as well (I am 23 now).

The most loving things my parents did was let me fall on my face. After 2 very intense situations that mentally smacked me around (in addition to becoming preggers), I left him and went home. Since then, it has been a very uphill battle. And it took my parents and I a long time to reconcile.

You may need to step back and let her fall. It will hurt you, and it will hurt her. But she needs to either succeed or fail on her own. As for the athiest/occult thing. It is part and parcel for times like this. I was into witchcraft during my… phase?.. as well. I cam back to the church and back to my family.

It may, in all reality, take her longer to come home, but she will. As for this…boy… is he the same age, or older? These things always seem to happen with men who are much older than the young lady.

She is my prayers in a very special way. Say a rosary for her everyday and place her under Mary’s protection. It’s amazing how well she brings everyone home to her Son.

 

[SeekerJen]

My daughter, like many 20 year olds, is not very responsible. I have had problems trying to instill in her some basic skills (keeping apartment reasonably clean, balancing a checkbook)

At 20 I had my own apartment at school. I was on the dean’s list, ate decently, and kept my apartment so nice that the landlord wished all her tenants were like me. I bounced my first and last check at 19. Not all 20 year olds are irresponsible, even when they’re living on Mom and Dad’s dime (my parents paid for whatever the scholarship didn’t cover).

The recurring theme I’m seeing (which I agree with fully) is “If you love someone, set them free.” She’s an adult now. She needs to learn to make adult decisions without the parental safety net. Let her figure out how to pay for her education- that’s what loans are for. Arrange to have the apartment lease signed over to her name. If she trashes it, she should be held responsible. Let her figure out how to budget her loan money. If she blows it all on frivolous stuff and eats ramen for a month, it won’t kill her and maybe she’ll learn something. I’m also guessing that this “engagement” won’t last. I was engaged when I was in undergrad. I’m not married to that guy. We split up once we were both in the real world and his inability to function as an adult became apparent.

I know you love her and want the best for her. You’ve seen before that she responds well to tough love. Time to give her another dose.

 

[Kathrynn3]

Sheila,

This is my first post, and I hate for it to be on such an emotionally charged subject, but I feel compelled to lend my 2 cents, if I may.

I am married to a “self-proclaimed athiest”. What does that mean? Well, if you talk to him you will find that he really is not…this is more of a left-over from his younger years, used to get a reaction and appear “well informed” (jokes on him) to others.

Now…we have 3 children together Katelyn is just shy of 2, Owen is 4 and just started PSR and Matthew is 8 and celebrated his first communion last year. This past Nov. 9 we had our marriage blessed by the Church, and my husband goes to mass with me every weekend. This is after 9 years of marriage, and has been a gradual progression, but I have always known, especially when he lectures the children about saying things like “oh my !" or " darn it!”. You can tell the “fake athiests”. So there is hope on that front.

She is 20yrs old…you have done your job…now it is her turn to do hers. I would advise against giving her money, when she becomes abusive, hang up, walk away, delete the e-mail. For whatever reason my generation (she’s a half generation behind me…I’m 31) and younger is developmentally delayed. We go through our adolesence earlier, however, it seems to last longer. Trust me…as someone who has been down a similar path (tarot cards included…and I’m NOT a cradle catholic) You’ve got to cut the line here and stand up for yourself. She is entitled to nothing anymore…that entitlement ended the day she turned 18. Regardless of if you give your blessing or not, if she wants to marry this guy, that’s what she’s going to do.

You brought her up with strong faith and eventually she will feel that hole in her heart, that void that nothing else can fill…and that is the call of our Lord, I know because I have felt it myself, and she can try to fill it with a great many things, but the only time it’s filled (for me) is when I’m active in my faith.

That’s the best I can offer you, I have been in a similar place as her, and I think I have turned out ok…but it had to be MY choice.

Best Wishes and God Bless You!

Kathrynn

p.s. just for chuckles…I am the only Catholic in my family, my mother is Methodist, and my father and sister are Baptist…it was my choice to answer the call.

 

[Dublin87]

I am 20 years old, just like your daughter and I completely understand and agree with everything that you have been doing…

I know that I am lacking in life experience just as much as your daughter is but maybe I can help from a younger perspective? You sound like a great Mum, you’ve tried many different ways of dealing with your daughter and there is no way that she is not able to see that… she is blatently just ignoring it.

I would most definately let your daughter back into your arms but there is no way you should give her a cent!! If she’s all ready to get married she should be ready for the finance that comes along with it too, and if your advice of not marrying an athiest is not good enough for her then your money shouldn’t be either…

Also if a man pushes his potential future wifes family that far away from her then I can’t see how their relationship can be healthy… he must be controlling and your daughter seems very free spirited and I doubt will stand for him controlling her for too long… if he is controlling… I’m just reading into what you say.

If this was me what would work best would be if my parents said pointed out he was controlling, that their opinion and advice wasn’t good enought then nor is their money and that more debt comes with marriage!!

Like I said… you sound like a great parent… your daughters are lucky to have you!!! Good luck!!!

 

[PatienceAndLove]

**Also if a man pushes his potential future wifes family that far away from her then I can’t see how their relationship can be healthy… he must be controlling **and your daughter seems very free spirited and I doubt will stand for him controlling her for too long… if he is controlling… I’m just reading into what you say.

If this was me what would work best would be if my parents said pointed out he was controlling, that their opinion and advice wasn’t good enought then nor is their money and that more debt comes with marriage!!

I totally agree with you about the controlling issue. However, speaking from a woman who was in a controlling relationship- no matter how many times people tell you, it takes a long time for you to see it. The comment will plant a seed in her head, but it may take a while- even if she is free spirited.

 

[fellowChristian]

Wow what a great mother.

Stick to your guns! Don’t give in!

It’s just like when she threw a tantrum for something and you said no. You told her the truth and you meant it,you followed through and she learned that she can’t cry to get her way. Tell her how it is going to be and follow through. She is still testing you.

If you approve of him after saying no you turn out to be a liar.

You are MOM! You know right from wrong and until she behaves like an adult what you say goes. Or else! You need to clarify the “or else” part. Her salvation is on the line.

You already know what to do. You are doing it. And you just need to hear…you are doing the right thing. Ask Saint Monica for her prayers.

 

[Biblioassistant]

Saint Bartolo Longo went to the University, fell in with a wild crowd, became an atheist and then a satanist. He eventually repented and dedicated his life to the Rosary.

God is not finished with your daughter. I can’t add to what some of the posters have advised, except to agree with them that you must stop helping her and let her fall or rise on her own. Don’t give her money. She is an adult and must learn how to take care of herself.

 

[Sina]

All your hard work won’t go to waste. Your daughter will be thankful for her upbringing in the faith. Pray for her. I know many of us here can do that with you as well.

She is still young and has many things in life to learn.

Hope you are doing ok today.

:hug1:

The most painful part for me is that I have tried for years to keep her on the straight and narrow. I feel like I have moved heaven and earth to try and help her with her faith. She just always seems to select the worst thing around.
The faith was the most precious thing I could give to her and she has rejected it. I am devastated.
Also, for the last two years she has said things to me that I would not say to my worst enemy - hateful things.
She has also criticized my marriage, saying I should of left long ago. (Don’t you love it, 20 and a marriage expert).Yes my husband and I have had our difficult times, who hasn’t… but we stayed together. I had hoped she would learn the lesson that a family stays together through thick and thin. What she got from all my effort to hold everything together was that I am mentally deranged and should have left long ago.
I feel betrayed…
She did so well right after her stint in military school, I thought I had finally managed to get her on the right road, now this.