My daughter is marrying an athiest

[JenniferMoon]

At 20 I was a married mom, had a job as a nanny and took my son to work with me each day. We paid our own rent and bills while hubby went through 5 years of electrical school & worked a full time job. It was hard, but we managed. There was only 1 time we needed help with a heat bill and we paid my parents back. Hubby also worked out a personal ‘line of credit’ with his dad, with a maximum of $2k and that got paid off too.

I think you guys sound like GREAT parents and I don’t think you really could have done anything different. I think the previous posters are right when they say no more money for her.

 

[kentuckyliz]

If you are trying to use money to control your daughter, that is not a good idea.

If she believes what she believes out of following her conscience, you can respect her following her conscience.

However you are not required to underwrite the foolishness! Have other reasons than her relationship and religious choices as a rationale for cutting her off financially.

Never cut her off in terms of communication or relationship with you, but draw CRYSTAL CLEAR boundaries and stick to them.

For example, as you keep communicating with her, you can explain your rationale for no longer providing financial support. It has to do with her hurtful behavior and total disregard for her family (re grandpa’s death) and lack of gratitude and irresponsibility and insistence that she is an independent adult. Well, so be it.

You can tell her that you would like to maintain the relationship for its own sake, apart from feeling like you’re being used for the money she wants. Money is screwing up your relationship so that has become one of the boundaries.

I LOVE your insistence on being one with your husband in your interactions with your daughter and her bf…and how you didn’t give in to their conditions. They are not in a position to call the shots.

So, work out for yourself what your conditions are, frequency and method of contact, etc. Once a week call on Sunday night with a time limit of five minutes and hanging up if she starts saying awful things or screaming? Sound about right?

You can express disapproval of her choice of mate, however, she is a legal adult with free will and you know the harder you push the issue, the more likely this little rebel is to elope with the weirdo just to push your buttons. So don’t harp on it. Also remember she might pop out some grandchildren someday and if you want access to them, you must maintain your relationship with her. Don’t let that become the way she manipulates her, just think of how important you will be in these children’s lives if their parents are such flakes.

Yes, she is an adult. She has refused to honor and respect her parents so she can let life be her teacher. I didn’t listen to my mom on a lot of things, and she probably didn’t listen to her mom either, lots of us insisting on learning from our mistakes!

Some recommendations: re complicated money and family issues and what is really helping vs. sick boundary/control freak issues, become a Dave Ramsey listener! www.daveramsey.com He often recommends a good book called Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud. These things might be really helpful to you.

And also, is there a support group or info website for relatives of people with borderline personality disorder? That might be really specific and on target.

This isn’t the end of the story with your daughter–so PLEASE do not call yourself a failure. We had family friends who were really decent people and their only child, a son, murdered someone in cold blood for taking “his” parking space in a mall parking lot. Of course they wondered what they did wrong, but he made his own choice totally apart from how they raised him. I feel so badly for them, their son is in prison for life no parole, they’ll never have grandchildren.

 

[catholicsingles]

everyone has really given you some pretty good advice…one strategy you might consider if you really think she might be bi-polar is to offer her some money if she goes to get checked out (with you so you know she actually went)…because if she is bi-polar it behooves you to find out now and she can get some treatment…other than that, only tough love will do , and that is probably going to be tougher on you than her. good luck!

 

[Mirdath]

To be perfectly honest, the accounts you’ve given don’t show either you or your daughter in a very good light at all. I gather she’s an irresponsible, vituperative leech; and you’re passive-aggressive, controlling, unprepared to raise a difficult child but plenty prepared to ship her off to a military school when that comes back to bite you.

The most painful part for me is that I have tried for years to keep her on the straight and narrow. I feel like I have moved heaven and earth to try and help her with her faith. She just always seems to select the worst thing around.
The faith was the most precious thing I could give to her and she has rejected it. I am devastated.

That’s the one thing you never did and never can control. You can take away the money you’ve been giving her, you can move her around, you can close your joint bank accounts (which, by the by, is an incredibly spiteful thing to do without warning her, overdrawn or not), you could even conceivably kidnap her full-on Bollywood style to get her away from ‘the boy’, but faith was never a thing you could give her or anyone. It’s up to her to believe in God – maybe she wants to, maybe not; maybe she can believe, maybe she can’t.

That said, here’s what I have to offer (I really should compile this stuff into Mirdath’s Guide for Concerned Parents of Heathens):

1. Love and respect her. She’s still your daughter, you’re still her mother. I’m just going off what I can read between the lines of one person’s point of view on the whole thing, but it sounds like you two get along like a barrel of fishhooks: cold, sharp, and tangled. The both of you may have no lack of reasons for this, but that doesn’t make it a good thing.
2. Remember that simple lack of belief does not make anyone worthless. By the end of your first post, your daughter isn’t even your daughter anymore – she’s ‘an atheist’ (better yet, one who may be living in sin!), ‘someone who is continuously tearing the family apart’. This… doesn’t speak of a healthy attitude towards her. It doesn’t sound like hers is much better, but then you’re the one who asked for advice on what to do.

Don’t fall into the trap of writing it off as ‘just a phase’ either. It’s possible, of course, but in the happy eventuality she returns to Catholicism, would you shrug and say ‘oh, just another phase’? This ‘my daughter thinks she is an atheist’ stuff is like saying ‘my daughter thinks she is two-legged’: it’s pretty easy to figure it out. No ‘thinks’ about it.

1. Remember that your child’s beliefs or lack thereof do not reflect on your parenting skills. You are not necessarily a failure as a parent just because one of your kids ended up atheist or agnostic or Presbyterian or Buddhist or Wiccan or a SubGenius – and you are not necessarily the Greatest Parent Ever if all of them stay Catholic till the day they die. Your rank on the Parent-O-Meter has exactly zilch to do with what, if any, religion your children practice, at least assuming no human sacrifice is involved.

Being a good parent isn’t about shielding your children from every possible danger: it’s about keeping the worst away until the kids are ready to fend those dangers off themselves. When they’re infants, sure, the worst is ‘anything more harmful than a feather falling on her’, but your daughter is twenty years old and you’re still helicoptering over her. For better or worse, she is an adult in the eyes of everyone except American bartenders.

1. Now that your child is loosed upon the world, with or without basic skills for living in it, you aren’t suddenly absolved of responsibility toward her. In fact, if you want to have any hope of her turning around, growing up (late is better than never, after all) without depending overmuch on the school of hard knocks, and perhaps even coming back to the Church, you’ll have to do more in the setting-an-example department than ever before.

If you want to help her with any of that, you’re going to need her respect. Right now, it doesn’t sound like you have much of that – although that she asked you about ‘the boy’ is a hint that there was some. Winning it back is going to take a good deal of effort and some growing up on your part. From what you’ve said, I’d start by simply having a good, long heart-to-heart conversation or five with her. Tell her what you’ve said here, how you feel about her leaving the nest, and don’t be afraid to admit that you’ve made mistakes and to apologize for them. Obviously I don’t have any intimate knowledge of what makes her tick – but hey, I got my parents to try that, and we came away with a great deal more mutual respect and even love.

1. The go-to saint for this kind of situation is Monica, St Augustine’s mother. She’s an excellent role model, but as far as intercession goes, well, caveat emptor

Good luck!

 

[ronnette]

I gather she’s an irresponsible, vituperative leech; and you’re passive-aggressive, controlling, unprepared …incredibly spiteful…

That said, here’s what I have to offer (I really should compile this stuff into Mirdath’s Guide for Concerned Parents of Heathens):

Your rank on the Parent-O-Meter has exactly zilch …

you aren’t suddenly absolved of responsibility toward her…

…Judge Judy? Is that you? :bigyikes:

 

[whatevergirl]

To clarify on the account - It was a joint account so that my name was on it as well. I have had it with her since I set it up when she was a minor going to an out of state military academy about 5 years ago. I just never took my name off of it.

When she was in military school and the first year of college, she was fine handling money - a couple of overdrafts, but nothing large. Last 18 months have been a problem… so I finally closed it. Should have done it earlier I know.

I paid for my college by enlisting in the Army and going with the GI bill - so I agree with you - she can figure out how to pay.

Counselors in the past have told me she may have a personality disorder, so I have probably been too lenient.

Mostly, I had hoped with military school - I don’t know how much tougher tough love can get - she would improve. She did… drastically… However, she returned to her old ways when she got back into the real world. This boyfriend has a great pull on her. He is an athiest who comes from a Jewish background. My daughter said that he showed her that there was no basis in the old testament to expect anyone like Jesus to come along. That coupled with all that she has learned in her science classes has led her to believe that there is no God.

I asked her to tell me what the boyfriend said to her and what she found in science class so that I could get a different take on it for her. She refused to do this…She just knows too much…and I am too stupid to even understand her questions.

My husband and I have decided to not give her any money for now. We want her to re-establish her relationship with us first…
My husband says that we do not have to prove we love her by giving her more money. I think he was right.

The boyfriend was insulted that I repeatedly refused to see him without my husband…that is what started this ugly mess. That is how it will have to stay. I will not see him without my husband being present. Especially since he threatened litigation.

I have other friends who say she sounds bi-polar and that I should do whatever it takes to maintain contact so that worse things do not happen. I do not want to do this right now.

The worst part of all of it is that she has been so nasty the last few weeks that I really have no overwhelming urge to act. I sent a policeman to her apartment to do a welfare check - since she was not responding to me. She got the businesscard from the policeman and sent me a nasty e-mail saying that she did not believe that I loved her because I sent police to her apartment and closed her checking account. I also stopped payment on her internet and phone bills since she refuses to contact us with anything but insults and a demand for money.

The hardest thing for me was to make up a story to my Dad on his deathbed as to why he could not see her. I told him she was on a school fieldtrip and I could not reach her. She still has not said anything to indicate that she cares that he has died. This, more than anything makes me unwilling to just give her money. I believe this to be a good indication that she cannot see beyond her own needs right now.

I agree with everyone else…as to letting her figure out how to pay for college, etc…But, are you feeling this way because of her boyfriend? She could have not told you about him, and if she hadn’t…would you still be paying her way through school? Is this because she announced she is with and also thinks she is, an atheist? No right or wrong answer, of course–I’m just curious as to if this is the motivating factor behind your decision to not want to financially back her any further. (in addition to the fact that she wasn’t there for her grandfather–that makes me very sad, reading that, actually…she will probably look back on that some 10 years from now, and be very regretful)

 

[Sheila_J]

Thanks to all of you for your advice.

My husband and I have decided not to send her any money.
We have let her know that we are here if she needs us.
We have let her know we love her.
The boy does not seem to have a lot of money, so we are covering her health insurance for now.
I just sent her a box of homemade Christmas cookies. The kind we make each year.
I have also decided that I will stay firm with my original guidelines for college which included not funding school if she took up some false philosophy. In my opinion, athiesm is covered under this heading.

If she does need money she will need to come to us and discuss the need with us. If we were to send money, it is likely that our daughter would not see it… Most likely it would come under the boyfriend’s control and our daughter would not know that we had sent it.
I am paying for her cell phone so she has a way to contact us. It appears that the boyfriend is monitoring her email and much of what we have sent to her has never reached her. Her appears to be a very controlling individual.
My husband sends a harmless “how are you?” e-mail once a week.
I have decided that I refuse to be drawn into some battle with the boyfriend. The fact that I would not meet him without my husband being present greatly offended him and it appears that this guy is still holding a grudge…
So… I am not going to fight with him, I will send cards and cookies, etc. (but no money).
She knows where we are if she needs us.
I am also not talking about this with my younger daughter who is doing fine. I concentrate on keeping that relationship positive and loving. My younger daughter knows the scoop, from both sides as her sister talks to her, I am not going to drag her into this…If she ever brings it up, I will talk to her about it, but she will need to bring it up.
I have learned over the last several weeks that a break like this can completely consume you, if you let it. It definitiely breaks your heart and it is very hard to rally. I am having a terrible time concentrating at work or getting anything done. I hope that this will soon change.

In the interim, I pray an “Our Father” each time I begin to get upset over this mess and leave it at that.
I refuse to brood over this.
Again, thank you all - now we leave it in God’s hands and wait.
I will handle this with prayer and a positive attitude. If the boyfriend becomes reasonable I will invite him, with my daughter and husband to a meal. I am, under no circumstances going to let Satan win by harboring a grudge and becoming embittered.
If she never comes back…it will be her choice. I will not place any impediments between us.
I will also not be manipulated into approving of the marriage. I can accept it, but I will not approve of it. If the young man ever comes around, I will treat him with the respect and kindness I would give anyone else, but I will not approve of an athiest lifestyle.
Let us hope they both come around - God can do wonderful things. I also pray for the young man.

 

[homewardbound]

I just want to say best of luck with everything and I am sorry she has been treating you this way.

Also, as a 22 year old with both bipolar and borderline personality…mental illness is no excuse for the way she treats you. I know I can be a handful or confusing for those who love me at times but I would never be so hateful and self centered. Thats not a disorder, thats merely who she’s choosing to be.

Take care and may God Bless you and your family

 

[Norseman82]

Question: I may have missed this, but why does the b/f not want to meet your husband?

I’m the type of person (probably because I’m a male) that if I were told “don’t contact her or we’ll sue”, I would do one of two things:

1. Tell the bum he doesn’t speak for my daughter and has no legal standing, I want to hear it from her own mouth, and if he has a problem with that, meet me for open spar night at a local gym.
2. Let all incoming calls go to an answering machine. If it is a call asking for money, ignore it, and when they are crying “why didn’t you return my call”, I’ll simply remind them in front of everyone present that they would sue if we contacted them. Let them sweat like Joseph made his brothers sweat.

 

[SilenceISgolden]

Sheila,

I just second all the info about having to let her make her own mistakes, even as huge as these could be.

I really just wanted to say sorry about your father and we will pray for his soul as well as you and your family. You’ve got so many open wounds right now, I’d suggest backing off from everything and taking care of you , your husband and ‘the good daughter’ for awhile.

God Bless!

 

[vester444]

Ok I have to admit I was a challenging child too Poor mom and dad Now, I never dabbled in the occult or anything, but I made decisions based on what I wanted to do, and didnt really think anything about it - or how that would impact others.

First of all - you are a great mom. and if it helps, even when I was hugely angry at my parents, I never hated them (even if I acted like I did at the time)

Now I am married to a wonderful man, have a lovely daughter, and go to Mass So there you go - it all works out - but I had to come around myself - which I’m sure is infinitely impossible given your situation and how much you love her.

This thing with this guy wont last. Now, there may be another jerk take his place, so prepare (I dated a lot of frogs…haha!)

Honestly, what kind of MAN wont let his girlfriend even talk to her parents. Wow, how insecure is that? How controlling and compulsive is that that he cant even let a simple conversation happen. I would say that to her, and say, you know, if you are such a believer in womens’ rights, and that you are so independent, I would think you could talk to whoever you wanted to…but what do I know. Thats what I would say.

I wouldnt pay for her college either. Unless she lived at home (not sure if thats an option) …

what are you planning on doing with the holidays coming?

Vester

 

[PatienceAndLove]

**Honestly, what kind of MAN wont let his girlfriend even talk to her parents. Wow, how insecure is that? How controlling and compulsive is that that he cant even let a simple conversation happen. ** I would say that to her, and say, you know, if you are such a believer in womens’ rights, and that you are so independent, I would think you could talk to whoever you wanted to…but what do I know. Thats what I would say.

This is what I keep coming back to. My daughter’s father did the exact same thing until anytime my parents and I did talk to one another, it was a fight.
I am praying for you, and your daughter. I am praying that it all works out.