H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Another thread from adam about his controlling wife. Which one, the non denom one or the Baptist one?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
A
Adamski
Guest
Baptist and non denominational that means the same thing to me, it basically means you don’t except infant baptism and believe in once saved always saved. If it bothers you I will stop posting. But I will say some people’s advise have been very helpful.Another thread from adam about his controlling wife. Which one, the non denom one or the Baptist one?
X
Xantippe
Guest
Baptists are often bigger on local congregational independence than doctrinal purity, so I can imagine the same kind of person moving pretty effortlessly between a certain kind of Baptist church and a non-denom church.
A
Adamski
Guest
I had a meeting with her pastor, may I add she only goes to church to get “fed” which means less than once a month. He said he would baptize a 5 year old or even an infant I the parents wanted him to. He said it would be fine if my kids were baptized in the Catholic ChurchEnglishTeacher said:
“Given that the wife attends a non-denominational church, it is very unlikely that she is planning to have the child baptized.”
It is a 5-year-old, the child has been expressing a desire to be baptized, and the wife wants the child to be baptized at her church when/if the child is baptized, so it’s not all that unreasonable to think it might happen within the next several years. I suppose a lot depends on how early these particular non-denoms are willing to do baptism.
X
Xantippe
Guest
Adamski said:
“Baptist and non denominational that means the same thing to me, it basically means you don’t except infant baptism and believe in once saved always saved.”
We relocated to a Baptist-rich area some years ago and I’ve had the opportunity to study the subject on the ground in their native habitat
My understanding is that you can get almost every kind of Baptist you want in our area. You can get rich liberal Protestant Baptists, Pabst Blue Ribbon-drinking hipster Baptists, liturgy-loving Bapto-Catholics, you name it. The unifying thread here is not really doctrine, but culture. They love their congregational independence, they love potlucks, and they love keeping a brotherly eye on each others’ sinning. Other than that, there really aren’t a lot of resemblances.
“Baptist and non denominational that means the same thing to me, it basically means you don’t except infant baptism and believe in once saved always saved.”
We relocated to a Baptist-rich area some years ago and I’ve had the opportunity to study the subject on the ground in their native habitat
My understanding is that you can get almost every kind of Baptist you want in our area. You can get rich liberal Protestant Baptists, Pabst Blue Ribbon-drinking hipster Baptists, liturgy-loving Bapto-Catholics, you name it. The unifying thread here is not really doctrine, but culture. They love their congregational independence, they love potlucks, and they love keeping a brotherly eye on each others’ sinning. Other than that, there really aren’t a lot of resemblances.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
You have a lot of threads about apologetics and protestants in general. You seem to really enjoy your newfound zeal for your baptized faith. In many ways you are not really that different than a convert yourself. You have found the fire of faith. I and my wife are both converts as well. We know well that zeal for the faith. But I also know the importance of words and definitions. There are HUGE differences between what one would call a non denom and a Baptist. They may seem slight to you, but they are huge! Especially with the idea of baptism. I only emphasize this because it is important that when you seek advice or offer advice or engage in theological issues that you use the correct terminology. If you really think they are the same then you will not have much success either with other Christians, non Christians, or your own wife.Baptist and non denominational that means the same thing to me, it basically means you don’t except infant baptism and believe in once saved always saved. If it bothers you I will stop posting. But I will say some people’s advise have been very helpful.
On the subject of your wife. I think you have a problem the way you view her. You need to love, be understanding, and stand up for yourself. Your posts not only tend to demean her, but do not paint a good picture of you.
That being said I do believe you have good intentions here. You just may have some bigger emotional and mental issues than anyone here can help you with.
But I cannot be too hard on a fellow “Steep and Deep” man.
I make it up to Whistler every once in a while, perhaps we will share a chair one day.
X
Xantippe
Guest
Adamski said:
“I had a meeting with her pastor, may I add she only goes to church to get “fed” which means less than once a month.”
I imagine that’s really annoying when she’s putting her foot down on having your children baptized in the Church that you actually attend regularly.
“He said he would baptize a 5 year old or even an infant I the parents wanted him to. He said it would be fine if my kids were baptized in the Catholic Church”
Can you take that to the bank and cash it? Or does your wife insist on being more Protestant than her pastor?
Can you get your wife to a Catholic baptism in the next few months?
There’s a good chance that if she saw an actual full-dress Catholic baptism in a pretty church that she would WANT that, religious traditions be darned, just like a lot of brides WANT a fancy high-church Church (Catholic or Protestant), no matter how contrary their own religious tradition was.
Girls can be funny like that.
“I had a meeting with her pastor, may I add she only goes to church to get “fed” which means less than once a month.”
I imagine that’s really annoying when she’s putting her foot down on having your children baptized in the Church that you actually attend regularly.
“He said he would baptize a 5 year old or even an infant I the parents wanted him to. He said it would be fine if my kids were baptized in the Catholic Church”
Can you take that to the bank and cash it? Or does your wife insist on being more Protestant than her pastor?
Can you get your wife to a Catholic baptism in the next few months?
There’s a good chance that if she saw an actual full-dress Catholic baptism in a pretty church that she would WANT that, religious traditions be darned, just like a lot of brides WANT a fancy high-church Church (Catholic or Protestant), no matter how contrary their own religious tradition was.
Girls can be funny like that.
X
Xantippe
Guest
You might even pick out a few pretty white dresses for the occasion online and show them to your wife.
This isn’t cheap (I think you can do better price-wise at your local Quinceanera emporium), but your wife may find it inspiring.
chasing-fireflies.com/embellished-illusion-communion-dress/holiday-occasion/first-communion/17168
chasing-fireflies.com/embroidered-lace-communion-dress/holiday-occasion/first-communion/110674
At this point, it may be worthwhile to shoot for doing baptism and first communion during the same season, so your daughter can wear the same dress for both.
They won’t wear pretty white satin dresses and veils for baptism at your wife’s Baptist church…
This isn’t cheap (I think you can do better price-wise at your local Quinceanera emporium), but your wife may find it inspiring.
chasing-fireflies.com/embellished-illusion-communion-dress/holiday-occasion/first-communion/17168
chasing-fireflies.com/embroidered-lace-communion-dress/holiday-occasion/first-communion/110674
At this point, it may be worthwhile to shoot for doing baptism and first communion during the same season, so your daughter can wear the same dress for both.
They won’t wear pretty white satin dresses and veils for baptism at your wife’s Baptist church…
B
bitterhope
Guest
In his defense, I’m Southern born and live in the Baptist belt. A good many baptists, including the ones in my family, switch back and forth between non denominational, baptist, Christian and Assembly of God depending on who is preacher at the moment and many other reasons. It isn’t unheard of for families to change churches by the week depending on which has the best fellowship or Christmas program. Sometimes it’s for the youth programs or mission trips. Many churches swell in numbers during Bible school in the summer. If a family gets upset at one church for any reason they will roam around church to church until they find the one that fits. Very few are set in a particular denomination and instead will go to wherever they like the preacher or people best. I do know some that are hardcore baptist and do not change denomination, but the majority I’ve met that self identify as Baptist are more accurately labeled either non denominational Christian or just simply Protestant.
Growing up I was teased about being “stuck” in a church whether or not the priest was a likeable guy or not. My friends could not understand how it would not bother me to be forced to stick with a certain religion or church. It was just how church worked–you shopped around until you found the place you liked best, but us Catholics were stuck with what we got. In my hometown if 5,000, that meant one tiny church with 50 families. It was still bigger than any of the hundreds of different churches around us though, and the same people showed up week after week. It wasn’t ever changing like theirs. Now, that town has 7,000 people, a brand new Catholic Church with a full parish school (preK-8) and over 500 families. The kids I grew up with, many are now Catholics, one is a Methodist minister, two are nondenominational preachers, and the rest still hop church to church or don’t go to church at all.
Growing up I was teased about being “stuck” in a church whether or not the priest was a likeable guy or not. My friends could not understand how it would not bother me to be forced to stick with a certain religion or church. It was just how church worked–you shopped around until you found the place you liked best, but us Catholics were stuck with what we got. In my hometown if 5,000, that meant one tiny church with 50 families. It was still bigger than any of the hundreds of different churches around us though, and the same people showed up week after week. It wasn’t ever changing like theirs. Now, that town has 7,000 people, a brand new Catholic Church with a full parish school (preK-8) and over 500 families. The kids I grew up with, many are now Catholics, one is a Methodist minister, two are nondenominational preachers, and the rest still hop church to church or don’t go to church at all.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Perhaps the Op could just clear things up and tell us what his wife is.
That is not hard. “honey, what religion are you?”
And then see what she says.
It is odd that he does not know and has used two different things to describe her.
What does the wife believe?
That is not hard. “honey, what religion are you?”
And then see what she says.
It is odd that he does not know and has used two different things to describe her.
What does the wife believe?
X
Xantippe
Guest
bitterhope said:
“A good many baptists, including the ones in my family, switch back and forth between non denominational, baptist, Christian and Assembly of God depending on who is preacher at the moment and many other reasons.”
I have an auntie who at one point was attending events both at her Baptist church and the Assemblies of God church that our cousin was pastor of (she and I were both brought up in the Assemblies of God). It wasn’t flightiness on her part, she just couldn’t get enough church.
Now, more than ever, Protestant denominational lines are not very bright. You can see this in the names of a lot of new or renamed Protestant churches. It’s not “XYZ Baptist Church,” but “Happy Valley Community Church” (with Baptist in very small print). They want to appeal to the greatest possible numbers, and so they downplay the denominational affiliation, even if there is one. You even see Catholic churches attempting this maneuver.
“A good many baptists, including the ones in my family, switch back and forth between non denominational, baptist, Christian and Assembly of God depending on who is preacher at the moment and many other reasons.”
I have an auntie who at one point was attending events both at her Baptist church and the Assemblies of God church that our cousin was pastor of (she and I were both brought up in the Assemblies of God). It wasn’t flightiness on her part, she just couldn’t get enough church.
Now, more than ever, Protestant denominational lines are not very bright. You can see this in the names of a lot of new or renamed Protestant churches. It’s not “XYZ Baptist Church,” but “Happy Valley Community Church” (with Baptist in very small print). They want to appeal to the greatest possible numbers, and so they downplay the denominational affiliation, even if there is one. You even see Catholic churches attempting this maneuver.
B
bitterhope
Guest
Yes, it’s quite common here (TN) and also where I grew up (different southern state). I haven’t seen it at a Catholic Church yet, but I believe it happens. We are usually in very small catholic populations so it tends to be very traditional and proudly catholic. Too many against us to be any other way. And each year we have lots of people convert so it must work.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
I would pursue this with your wife. Talk to your pastor, too. Anyone may baptize using the correct formula, in the case of necessity. If it is your intention to have your child baptized Catholic and the only way your wife will permit a baptism at all is if a priest does not do it, your pastor may be able to record the baptism you can convince the child’s mother to consent to, particularly since your child is asking to be baptized. What can be done in such a case as yours? That’s why they go to seminary…I had a meeting with her pastor, may I add she only goes to church to get “fed” which means less than once a month. He said he would baptize a 5 year old or even an infant I the parents wanted him to. He said it would be fine if my kids were baptized in the Catholic Church
The truth is, the Catholic Church would consider your child a “child”, rather than an infant, since she is old enough to ask for baptism for herself and (more to the point) old enough to refuse for herself.
P
Phemie
Guest
The Church has no ‘child’ classification. Canonically, for the purpose of Baptism and Confirmation, you are either an infant (under the age of reason or without the capacity to reason) or you’re an adult. The age of reason is around 7, which doesn’t mean that a 7 year old is treated in the same way or expected to understand things in the same way as a 25 year old.The truth is, the Catholic Church would consider your child a “child”, rather than an infant, since she is old enough to ask for baptism for herself and (more to the point) old enough to refuse for herself.
I’m not so sure that the child would be treated as an adult at the age of 5. She might be but in my experience it’s much more common for a 7 year old to be treated as an infant than for a 5 year old to be treated as an adult.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Well, yes and no. There is the age of discretion cut-off (which is not a set-in-stone age) and then there is the option for a conference of bishops to establish another age for confirmation. That implies that the progression from infant to adult is not deemed a simple either/or proposition.The Church has no ‘child’ classification. Canonically, for the purpose of Baptism and Confirmation, you are either an infant (under the age of reason or without the capacity to reason) or you’re an adult. The age of reason is around 7, which doesn’t mean that a 7 year old is treated in the same way or expected to understand things in the same way as a 25 year old.
I’m not so sure that the child would be treated as an adult at the age of 5. She might be but in my experience it’s much more common for a 7 year old to be treated as an infant than for a 5 year old to be treated as an adult.
My point is that it does make a difference that the child is asking to be baptized, since the age of discretion is not set in stone. To withhold baptism from someone who appears old enough to want it is a serious thing. Time to call someone in who has the office to implement the pastoral guidelines the shepherd of this particular diocese has set in place.
R
rinnie
Guest
Adamski, If you don’t mind me asking what do you feel your duty as a Father with your daughter?I had a meeting with her pastor, may I add she only goes to church to get “fed” which means less than once a month. He said he would baptize a 5 year old or even an infant I the parents wanted him to. He said it would be fine if my kids were baptized in the Catholic Church
I am just saying on my part, If it was me, I would go ahead and Baptise my child in the CC and face the music.
Some things in life are worth it, and the Salvation of my Child would be one for me. If my husband did not agree, he would have to disagree.
T
ToTheHeights
Guest
You are the head of your family. Not your wife. You have a moral responsibility to baptize your daughter; now, and in the Catholic Church. If she’s angry, she’s angry. Fight for Truth. Fight for the soul of your daughter and your wife. A good leader does what’s right, always, and regardless of negative consequences.My daughter is 5 my wife doesn’t believe in infant baptism and I thought I would be patient currently my daughter is asking to get baptized and said it is because she loves jesus. and my wife said she can’t get baptized in the Catholic Church only in my wife’s non denominational church I feel I have been been kind by waiting there is a baptism preparation class on Sunday. My wife said she will be very angry at me if I go. I feel that as a good leader I should attend
P
Phemie
Guest
He can’t jeopardize his marriage over this.You are the head of your family. Not your wife. You have a moral responsibility to baptize your daughter; now, and in the Catholic Church. If she’s angry, she’s angry. Fight for Truth. Fight for the soul of your daughter and your wife. A good leader does what’s right, always, and regardless of negative consequences.
T
ToTheHeights
Guest
I strongly disagree. The salvation of his daughter’s soul is infinitely important than his marriage. Additionally, taking a strong stance on such an important matter is the only chance he has of conveying the truth to his wife. If he rolls over on it, it looks like he doesn’t believe it’s that important. Where does it end? What about the other sacraments? He must do what is right, and do it now.He can’t jeopardize his marriage over this.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
To clarify: Since his wife’s pastor considers their daughter an appropriate candidate for baptism, there is no reason this has to jeopardize his marriage. It ought to be handled with sensitivity and prudence, but he has his daughter’s desire to be baptized to defend. That is his duty, too. I take you to mean, then, that he must take the health of his marriage into account as he proceeds, and act with love and humility as he handles it. After all, his headship must imitate that of Christ.He can’t jeopardize his marriage over this.
(His wife was told when they married that he has a duty to raise their children Catholic.)
- Status
- Not open for further replies.