My daughter's Catholic school scared her with Purgatory

[fnr]

I was pretty upset when I heard about how my daughter’s Catholic school introduced her to Purgatory. It was described as a pit in which many people are stuck. You try to climb out to reach God, but someone else that is trying to climb out is grabbing your legs to climb out over you, preventing you from moving. Eventually an angel comes to take you to God.

This description of Purgatory seems utterly speculative and inconsistent with what the Church teaches. Here’s the Catechism on Purgatory.

Yes, for the souls of those in a state of sanctifying grace there’s a purifying fire after death, but before souls enter Heaven. But the notion of a “waiting period” of horror and torture isn’t really in Church teaching.

We can’t assume that the time and space of our cosmos will also bind souls after death. Heaven isn’t a “place” or at a “time” with our universe, so why would Purgatory be so?

What do you think?

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Purifying fire seems a bit horrific to me. Honestly, I would be better with a pit that I try to climb out of instead of fire. The pit wouldn’t scare me, fire totally scares me.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I think some people forget that Dante was a poet, not a theologian. His descriptions of Purgatory and Hell seem to shape so much of popular understanding of those places.

 

[GLam8833]

Yes, and the teaching about Confession of mortal sins is
often also flawed! We try to be in a state of Grace so much
that we often FORGET that God wants to teach us that
if it is hard for the Righteous to be saved, WHAT ABOUT
THE SINNERS? We are learning to be more Merciful to
those who fall often!

Remember, O gracious Virgin Mary,
that never has it been known that anyone
who has fled to you for protection, implored your help,
or sought your intercession was left unaided,
inspired by this confidence, we fly to you O Virgin of virgins, our Mother.
To you we come, before you we stand, O Mother of the Word Incarnate,
despise NOT our petitions, but in your mercy,
hear and answer us!
Amen.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I was pretty upset when I heard about how my daughter’s Catholic school introduced her to Purgatory. It was described as a pit in which many people are stuck. You try to climb out to reach God, but someone else that is trying to climb out is grabbing your legs to climb out over you, preventing you from moving. Eventually an angel comes to take you to God.

This description of Purgatory seems utterly speculative and inconsistent with what the Church teaches. Here’s the Catechism on Purgatory.

Yes, for the souls of those in a state of sanctifying grace there’s a purifying fire after death, but before souls enter Heaven. But the notion of a “waiting period” of horror and torture isn’t really in Church teaching.

We can’t assume that the time and space of our cosmos will also bind souls after death. Heaven isn’t a “place” or at a “time” with our universe, so why would Purgatory be so?

What do you think?

Why on earth would they describe it like that ! That seems like the silliest illustration Ive ever heard.

Perhaps they should simply quote Pope Benedict XVI on the matter…

*"The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of ‘short’ or ‘long’ duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The ‘temporal measure’ of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an ‘existential time,’ in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world.
. . .
"[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints.
. . .
“Encounter with the Lord is this transformation.”…

–Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231*

I have written a lot on my blog about Purgatory, you may find more quotes and hopeful support for you daughter there.

findingthecatholicchurch.blogspot.com/2013/02/cs-lewis-believed-in-purgatory-rightly.html

findingthecatholicchurch.blogspot.com/2013/03/purgatory-part-2-what-about-temporal.html

 

[GEddie]

People in Purgatory don’t pull on each other.

They all want to be in Heaven and they know that that kind of selfishness, among other things, is keeping them from there. So their desire is totally different from in life.

Also, time is a physical construct, and without the material of our present bodies, has no role in Purgatory.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Robert_Sock]

I was pretty upset when I heard about how my daughter’s Catholic school introduced her to Purgatory. It was described as a pit in which many people are stuck. You try to climb out to reach God, but someone else that is trying to climb out is grabbing your legs to climb out over you, preventing you from moving. Eventually an angel comes to take you to God.

This description of Purgatory seems utterly speculative and inconsistent with what the Church teaches. Here’s the Catechism on Purgatory.

Yes, for the souls of those in a state of sanctifying grace there’s a purifying fire after death, but before souls enter Heaven. But the notion of a “waiting period” of horror and torture isn’t really in Church teaching.

We can’t assume that the time and space of our cosmos will also bind souls after death. Heaven isn’t a “place” or at a “time” with our universe, so why would Purgatory be so?

What do you think?

This is basically what I learned about Purgatory when I was in a Catholic grade school. The truth must be spoken as the truth. You really need to show that what was said goes against Church teachings. Now that I’m much older and spiritually aware, I take what I learned to heart.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In the 40 Dreams of Dom Bosco, he described being in a place that was so beautiful, he thought he was in heaven, only to learn it was purgatory.

Your daughter’s teacher sounds like a rigid religious fanatic. I would be talking to the pastor or looking for another school if it was my child.

Scaring kids into faith is what was done long ago in the past and created a Church of fear, rather than one of joy.

Jim

 

[Dorothy]

It is most unfortunate that Purgatory was described that way to your child. I hope it was just one person (and they need correcting) and not the entire school that is fixed on teaching it that way.

I am sure that you, as her parent, can find a way to explain it better, emphasizing the treasury of grace we have available for all in the Body of Christ.

 

[Robert_Sock]

In the 40 Dreams of Dom Bosco, he described being in a place that was so beautiful, he thought he was in heaven, only to learn it was purgatory.

Your daughter’s teacher sounds like a rigid religious fanatic. I would be talking to the pastor or looking for another school if it was my child.

Scaring kids into faith is what was done long ago in the past and created a Church of fear, rather than one of joy.

Jim

I learned that Purgatory was just like the fires of Hell, except that it was temporary.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I learned that Purgatory was just like the fires of Hell, except that it was temporary.

Many of us were taught this.

However, I learned about the 40 Dreams of Dom Bosco, and his experience in Purgatory, from Mother Angelica, when she was still on her program.

I ended up getting the book and sure enough, Dom Bosco was in purgatory and he said it was so beautiful, he thought he was in heaven.

However, he also met some of the boys who he knew who had died and were there. They were the one’s to inform him that he was in purgatory. They also explained that being separated from God was their greatest punishment and they longed to be in Heaven with Him. They further told Dom Bosco to tell the boys in his care to avoid sins of immorality, which they were being punished for.

Jim

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Sounds more like she’s been playing the video game:

Dante’s Inferno
Video game
Dante’s Inferno is a 2010 action-adventure video game developed by Visceral Games and published by Electronic Arts for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 consoles. Wikipedia
Initial release date: February 4, 2010
Publisher: Electronic Arts
Platforms: PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Xbox 360, Microsoft Windows
Developers: Visceral Games, Electronic Arts, Behaviour Interactive

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Actually, most of what we were taught about Purgatory and Hell, came from Dante’s Divine Comedy, which was a work of fiction.

Jim

 

[Joe_5859]

I think the teacher probably either heard that metaphor used elsewhere or came up with it on her own and simply took it too far.

On one level, I can understand that. When discussing the Last Things, there is often precious little concrete details to describe what eye has not seen and ear has not heard.

On the other hand, I can’t see how someone who gave it some thought would think that image would fly with elementary school kids.

If it were me, I would explain to my daughter that the teacher chose to use an image to convey a little bit about what it means to be in purgatory. In this case, she was trying to convey that it is a place where we are purified and long to be united with God in Heaven. Unfortunately, the image she chose was far more horrific than warranted, and thus conveys some notions that aren’t really true. Since it can be difficult to wrap our minds around heavenly realities, it is understandable that some people come up with analogies that don’t work quite right. I’m sure the teacher meant well.

Then I might contact the teacher and let her know that her analogy for purgatory was concerning to the children and that she probably wants to pick a different image to use. The idea that people in Purgatory would be selfishly pulling others down in an effort to get to the top is theologically incorrect. Selfishness rules the day in hell, not in purgatory.

 

[tamedlion]

Here is the thing about Purgatory. I don’t think that any one of us in this forum ever had visions or spend time in Purgatory. Hopefully we are all alive. So in reality we don’t know how this place or whatever we want to think of it is. The ones who have had visions described it as painful and with fire. However the ones that think other wise think of this people as pretty much ignorant with low academic education (The 3 shepherds of Fatima), so their description of Purgatory is a result of their intellectual capacity. The problem with this is that all the ones that had had visions are now dead, and the ones that come back also describe it as painful, so purification can be reach. None of the ones that describe Purgatory as a pleasant place had come back to confirm this idea and the rest of the people who think this way are still alive today and never had a vision. So I would stick with the ones that describe it as a place not to aim for, no matter how ignorant it may seem, after all, today is a good day to repent sincerely.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I was pretty upset when I heard about how my daughter’s Catholic school introduced her to Purgatory. It was described as a pit in which many people are stuck. You try to climb out to reach God, but someone else that is trying to climb out is grabbing your legs to climb out over you, preventing you from moving. Eventually an angel comes to take you to God.

This description of Purgatory seems utterly speculative and inconsistent with what the Church teaches. Here’s the Catechism on Purgatory.

Yes, for the souls of those in a state of sanctifying grace there’s a purifying fire after death, but before souls enter Heaven. But the notion of a “waiting period” of horror and torture isn’t really in Church teaching.

We can’t assume that the time and space of our cosmos will also bind souls after death. Heaven isn’t a “place” or at a “time” with our universe, so why would Purgatory be so?

What do you think?

If what you say is accurate then that seems horrible. What is described above is one of the reasons that we choose to homeschool so our children can learn the faith correctly.

However, there may be more to the story, it may have been presented as "some people have depicted purgatory this way…etc. Perhaps giving the school the benefit of the doubt or even having a rational logical and calm discussion with the teacher is in order.
Also, regardless, and because no one really KNOWS what purgatory is like you could use this as a tool to teach your daughter about frequent confession, obtaining indulgences (negating the need for purgatory all together) and striving for a sinless virtuous life.

The divine Mercy Chaplet can also be helpful if she were to feel that she could HELP those in purgatory instead of the (very false) view that others act selfishly and hinder people from reaching heaven. After death, out work is done. There is nothing we can do to help or hinder our cause or other’s causes until we get to heaven. But on earth we can help our own cause and others as well. Including those in purgatory. Use this as an opportunity to make her a prayer warrior for those we so often forget to pray for.

 

[Corki]

I was pretty upset when I heard about how my daughter’s Catholic school introduced her to Purgatory. It was described as a pit in which many people are stuck. You try to climb out to reach God, but someone else that is trying to climb out is grabbing your legs to climb out over you, preventing you from moving. Eventually an angel comes to take you to God.

This description of Purgatory seems utterly speculative and inconsistent with what the Church teaches. Here’s the Catechism on Purgatory.

Yes, for the souls of those in a state of sanctifying grace there’s a purifying fire after death, but before souls enter Heaven. But the notion of a “waiting period” of horror and torture isn’t really in Church teaching.

We can’t assume that the time and space of our cosmos will also bind souls after death. Heaven isn’t a “place” or at a “time” with our universe, so why would Purgatory be so?

What do you think?

You don’t mention how old your daughter is. There’s nothing particularly wrong with what the teacher said if it was presented as an analogy or metaphor. Of course, depending on the age, those literary devices might have been over their heads. I would suggest you speak to the teacher. It’s also the case that you are hearing this second hand. There might be some things missing in the retelling or even embellished.

 

[Memaw]

You don’t mention how old your daughter is. There’s nothing particularly wrong with what the teacher said if it was presented as an analogy or metaphor. Of course, depending on the age, those literary devices might have been over their heads. I would suggest you speak to the teacher. It’s also the case that you are hearing this second hand. There might be some things missing in the retelling or even embellished.

What we all need to remember is that purgatory is not a walk in the park. The consequence of our sin is serious. Only God knows what the stage of atonement is like but one thing for sure, we will be very thankful we are there and able to atone if needed. God Bless, Memaw

 

[hazcompat]

Saint Catherine of Genoa

“I believe no happiness can be found worthy to be compared with that of a soul in Purgatory except that of the saints in Paradise; and day by day this happiness grows as God flows into these souls, more and more as the hindrance to His entrance is consumed. Sin’s rust is the hindrance, and the fire burns the rust away so that more and more the soul opens itself up to the divine inflowing.”

Peace

 

[JimR-OCDS]

From the Catehcism of the Catholic Church:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

Note, the only mention of punishment has to do with those souls damned to hell.

Purgatory is a place of purification, and the description of fire is a metaphor, not literally fire.

Jim