My debate with a member of the "Christian" Identity cult

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Yesterday I had the awful experience of encountering (at an online debate message board) a member of the so-called “Christian Identity” movement. Basically members of “Christian Identity” believe the white race to be the lost tribes of Israel and believe that salvation is for whites only.

The guy tried to justify his views through scripture, claiming the Biblical phrase “do not cast pearls before swine” justified his views. I asked just how that supported his ideas, and he claimed that the pearls are Aryans and the swine are non-Aryans. I told him that still made no sense and so he freaked at me, calling me “Papist”, “Romish pagan”, “statue worshipper”, etc.

I remained calm, and one by one argued with his heretical ideas. Being non-Catholic, his religious beliefs were perverted enough already. But his bizarre and backward views on humanity in general made him even more ignorant than the average heathen. I asked how could he believe something so stupid as salvation being confined to one race, as Christ told us to baptize all nations. He just swore at me.

Glad I never told him my girlfriend is Asian:D He probably would have strangled me over the net.

Anyone ever encountered one of these guys? They really HATE Catholics (and everyone else), at least this one did.
 
Basically members of “Christian Identity” believe the white race to be the lost tribes of Israel and believe that salvation is for whites only.
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That’s horrible! And illegal, if that ‘church’ is promoting anti-any color but white ideas.

When will people realize that the American Civil War ended over a century ago? This really disturbs me.
 
Gah. That they use the term “Christian” sours my gut. :mad:
 
The klan calls themselve a Christian group. Did you point out that Jesus was a black Jew, not a white guy with a tan?

there is no way to get through to them God is love. The heart that hates has no place for God.
 
blacktiger057 said:
That’s horrible! And illegal, if that ‘church’ is promoting anti-any color but white ideas.

When will people realize that the American Civil War ended over a century ago? This really disturbs me.
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Or that the Third Reich ended in 1945? That sounds more like what this guy would be like.
 
blacktiger057 said:
That’s horrible! And illegal, if that ‘church’ is promoting anti-any color but white ideas…
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Explain that please. While Christian Identity folks, SOME of them have been involved in violence and advocated it, and that is illegal, holding racist views is of course not illegal.:confused:
Just trying to be accurate here
 
Try asking him what God meant by this passage from the New Testament:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:28)

Specifically, ask him what does it mean for slaves and Jews and others to all be one in Christ? Maybe once he sees that truth he will not be able to unsee it!
 
A relative of mine was involved in the movement. It is bizarre. It was started by a very intelligent man with skewered beliefs whose beliefs were twisted even further.

Having Neo-Nazis in my own family I can tell you, the hatred is very strong, you almost cannot get through to those people. And they do hate catholics, they see you guys as pagans. I am surprised I was even allowed to be baptized as an infant so strong was the hatred. My mother died young however, that was the end of my catholic upbringing.

I will say however, they are not all associated with the KKK. Also there are traces of this movement going back almost 500 years. It is not new. Same beliefs, newer packaging, thats all.

BTW, the Nazis never died out you know. They are still here. And because of Operation Paperclip many are here in America, and the movement flourished…

Some of my relatives were associated loosely with the late Brigadier General Jack Mohr of the Aryan Circle and Christian Identity movement. I have links if you want.

TBH I could never understand the hatred. I knew as a little girl that if Jesus loved all the little children it did indeed mean all of them!
 
blacktiger057 said:
That’s horrible! And illegal, if that ‘church’ is promoting anti-any color but white ideas.

When will people realize that the American Civil War ended over a century ago? This really disturbs me.
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It is not illegal… It falls under religious freedom and freedom of expression. In that way they are protected.

The sad thing is they must remain protected. Or your rights could also be taken away. Religious freedom must be for all. There are some who will use these terrible people as an excuse to attack YOUR rights and Religion freedom.
 
ralphinal said:
The klan calls themselve a Christian group. Did you point out that Jesus was a black Jew, not a white guy with a tan?

there is no way to get through to them God is love. The heart that hates has no place for God.
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Jesus was a middle eastern Jew, not a black Jew.
 
The Christian Identity churches are really a scary lot. We used to have one in my home town but they were effectively driven out.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
The Christian Identity churches are really a scary lot. We used to have one in my home town but they were effectively driven out.
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The Brigadier used to have a prison ministry, and would personally write inmates. he wrote a relative of mine too when he was in prison so I know what I am talking about. That is one way the movement grows. Recruitment from men who feel they have nothing to lose.

He was a well spoken educated man, not what you would have expected and could be charming. Being a decorated war hero did not hurt. But very racist nazi theology.
 
BTW, the Nazis never died out you know. They are still here. And because of Operation Paperclip many are here in America, and the movement flourished
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They aren’t the same type of Nazis from WWII. These folks wouldn’t be tolerated in the Nazi organizations in 1940s Germany.
 
VWcrazy said:
They aren’t the same type of Nazis from WWII. These folks wouldn’t be tolerated in the Nazi organizations in 1940s Germany.
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You are correct, not all are the same “Type”. But they have a saying…“The Old Ones are waiting”. You will not see them out in the open like the others though, they are more of an underground movement. Part of The Ancient Brotherhood. Nothing Christian about them.
 
You might bring up the fact that there really is no “white race”. Caucasians are light skinned, but it is near impossible to find someone that is “white” that has been “white” all the way through their heritage. We are just about all a bunch of different “races” thrown together over a few hundred years to make us what we are now. There is no “pure” white race. There are just “pure” idiots that claim to be.

There is only one race on this planet, the human race. When people realize this, all tension will cease.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Try asking him what God meant by this passage from the New Testament:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:28)

Specifically, ask him what does it mean for slaves and Jews and others to all be one in Christ? Maybe once he sees that truth he will not be able to unsee it!
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Acts 8:27-39 would also seem to be relevant, Philip baptising the Ethiopian eunuch.

rossum
 
Auriel said:
It is not illegal… It falls under religious freedom and freedom of expression. In that way they are protected.

The sad thing is they must remain protected. Or your rights could also be taken away. Religious freedom must be for all. There are some who will use these terrible people as an excuse to attack YOUR rights and Religion freedom.
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I thought that if any church was promoting hate crimes for against another race was illegal, like the KKK.

I don’t respect any racist opinion. Racims and religion are two very different things…but freeedom of thought has to apply…
 
blacktiger057 said:
I thought that if any church was promoting hate crimes for against another race was illegal, like the KKK.

I don’t respect any racist opinion. Racims and religion are two very different things…but freeedom of thought has to apply…
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If you actively encourage criminal activity in any way, that is legally problematic. If you preach exclusion, even racism, it is legal in the U.S. In some places, however, they are passing legislation to prohibit any sort of preaching of any type of discrimination. This is actually not good. Under these laws, a minister who says that homosexual activity is a sin would be guilty of a hate crime. I am against any kind of prejudice, but we should still be allowed to preach the truth. Iff the UN had its way, even the pope would be charged with crimes against humanity for speaking out against sin!!
 
VWcrazy said:
They aren’t the same type of Nazis from WWII. These folks wouldn’t be tolerated in the Nazi organizations in 1940s Germany.
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One must also keep in mind that many Nazis in WWII were not really evil, but just manipulated. Germany was poor and the people were hungy, and so it was easy for Hitler to manipulate many otherwise good people. I also think the vast majority of Germans, both civilian and military, had no idea the holocuast was happening. Thus I can understand why many of the Germans of the time period followed Hitler.

However, neo-nazis today have no excuse. Modern neo-nazis have full knowledge of the evils of national socialism, and so I cannot let them go so easily.
 
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