My dilemma (seeking advice)

  • Thread starter Thread starter damooster
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

damooster

Guest
Since my confirmation last year, I have been through a plethora of phases.

Initially, I was in love with my RCIA parish, even though I immediately recognized it as being somewhat progressive and I’m on the conservative side. But then I realized that I did not agree with the way Mass is celebrated there, so I began doing research on my own and discovered things like liturgical abuses that I had witnessed at various parishes.

So then, for the betterment of my soul, I began learning about the TLM and Traditional Catholicism. I studied the Baltimore Catechism and started learning about the Council of Trent. I attended the TLM exclusively, until I realized that I was, in a roundabout way, doubting the validity of the OF Mass despite the fact that Pope Benedict XVI expressly stated that it is valid and the norm.

So a few weeks ago, I began attending the OF Mass. I’ve discovered that I need to learn how to be obedient and trust that the Holy Spirit will not let the Church fail. I need to let the shepherds of the Church lead me in the right direction. I sometimes feel that it is better to be obedient and be led astray (let the clergy answer for this) than to be disobedient but be correct in doing so.

However, I still have a love for the TLM and traditionalism. I try to be as prayerful as possible at the OF Mass, but it’s very difficult when you witness blatant liturgical abuses, immodestly dressed people, 20 gazillion EMHC’s etc. I try to be led by the clergy but instead I find myself battling to stay charitable and focused on the Mass.

So, I don’t know what to do. Do I go with my gut and go back to traditionalism and decide that I know what’s best for my soul? Or do I remain obedient, but subject myself to the things I described in the paragraph above?
 
damooster said:
However, I still have a love for the TLM and traditionalism. I try to be as prayerful as possible at the OF Mass, but it’s very difficult when you witness blatant liturgical abuses, immodestly dressed people, 20 gazillion EMHC’s etc. I try to be led by the clergy but instead I find myself battling to stay charitable and focused on the Mass.

So, I don’t know what to do. Do I go with my gut and go back to traditionalism and decide that I know what’s best for my soul? Or do I remain obedient, but subject myself to the things I described in the paragraph above?
Click to expand...
Gosh you sound just like me! 🙂

There is a right and a wrong, isn’t there? Still, beggars can’t always be choosers and every priest’s hands have been blessed in a special way, so I concentrate on my relationship with Jesus Christ. I keep my eyes shut in a wishy washy Mass and pray the Mass with all my being. I don’t look at other people, or be critical of the priest, I just go to receive Jesus. I go to good stuff when I can, and when I can’t, I take what I can and say my prayers.
 
My advice is that you stop associating invalidity of the Novus Ordo with assistance and preference for the Traditional Mass. What has made you doubt the validity of the Ordinary Form in a “roundabout way”? I have no doubt about the validity of the Ordinary Form as promulgated but I always avoid it if possible. So now you are subjecting yourself to it to prove to yourself what? It is crazy to be going to Masses that offend your innate Catholic sensibility just because it happens to be vaild.

Don’t be a guy sitting in a jail cell with the door open and the jailers beckoning you to leave complaining because you’re in prison! If you have a preference, and you have the liberty, exercise your preference!

Since you asked…and all the best on your journey…Welcome to the Catholic faith, whichever Mass you ultimately choose to attend.

Rory
 
1- You better practice the discipline of obedience
2- You better attend the order of the Mass that helps you with your spiritual growth and not with your feelings, likes or dislikes
3- Get a spiritual director, you have just being confirmed and your spiritual path is going to be quite long one.
I do not know which one is better for you, the OF or the EF. I just know that it should not matter that much, those are just a few hours of your 168 hr/week as a Catholic. Never forget that.
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
My advice is that you stop associating invalidity of the Novus Ordo with assistance and preference for the Traditional Mass.
Click to expand...
Great advice. Thank you.
What has made you doubt the validity of the Ordinary Form in a “roundabout way”?
Click to expand...
Sorry for the confusion; I just didn’t convey my opinion properly. I’m at work and was kind of rushed when making the post. But what I meant was, I see stuff happening during the OF Mass and sometimes wonder if that particular celebration was valid. For example, I once saw a priest treat the consecration as if it were a magic show.

I’ve never doubted the validity of the OF Mass itself, just specific abuses that might render a particular celebration as invalid.
 
VetA said:
really? can you explain that one, give it some context?
Click to expand...
He kept “popping” his arms and hands out like magicians do when they’re handling objects and he was winking and smiling at some people in the front pew. Then he did the same thing after the distribution of Holy Communion when he was cleaning everything.
 
There’s nothing wrong with going to an EF Mass if that’s what you prefer, but I think you have to be careful about assuming too much in regards to liturgical abuse. You don’t want to turn the EF into some sort of clique or “superior” sub-section of the Catholic Church.

Speaking from my experience, when I was just getting deeper into my faith, I was fortunate to be in a place that celebrated the OF but took the rubrics very seriously. I became quite suspicious of any other parish I went to, and I was always on “abuse patrol” waiting to see what “abuse” might pop up next.

As I grew even more in my faith and knowledge of the liturgy, I came to realize that some of the things I thought were “abuses”, in fact, were not abuses. I also began to realize that it was far more important for me to be present to the Lord at Mass than to allow myself to indulge in every distraction. It was as if the devil knew he couldn’t get me to doubt my faith, so instead he sought to distract me so I wouldn’t get as much of a benefit from Mass.

When I was in this stage of my life, I thought I knew a lot more than I did. For example, I’d get incensed whenever the choir sang the “Lamb of God” more than three times. I was certain this was a grave abuse, never realizing that the GIRM 83 says: “This invocation accompanies the fraction and, for this reason, may be repeated as many times as necessary until the rite has reached its conclusion, the last time ending with the words dona nobis pacem (grant us peace).” Boy did I feel sheepish when I found that out.

I have found that a little charity goes a long way. I try to presume good will on the part of the priest. This has helped me a great deal. Don’t get me wrong, I still hate to see liturgical abuse, but I try to let the little things go. If the priest says “Good morning” before he starts Mass with the Sing of the Cross, I can overlook it. If he’s trying to consecrate tortilla chips, that’s something else entirely.
 
As usual, Rory, you’ve hit the nail on the head. This is precisely what I do. This past Sunday we drove to Seattle for the FSSP parish. Thats 120 miles each way. The local OF Mass is nice and we attend a couple of times a month. I keep hoping for better financial times so that I can travel more (for EF Masses).

Perhaps either this Sunday or next we’ll come on down to Our Lady of Fatima.
 
Your not the only one!. This has been my dilemma for several years now.

Since I cannot attend a EF Mass, which the closest is in the next diocese. I mainly go to a Byzantine rite Liturgy. Either Eastern Catholic or Orthodox.
 
Hey corsair,

Always good to see you! Here and in real life. Somehow somebody new “friended me” and I deleted all the old ones. No need to “re-up” as far as I am concerned. But I was concerned you might have got some notice that I “defriended” you. I’m not mad at you. I’m not even mad at all the screwballs around here!!! Heh. Just kiddin’. I think most of us are honestly trying our best to get ourselves and loved ones into heaven. Kyrie Eleison.

Rory
 
damooster said:
So, I don’t know what to do. Do I go with my gut and go back to traditionalism and decide that I know what’s best for my soul? Or do I remain obedient, but subject myself to the things I described in the paragraph above?
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Catholic Church. You’re not required to torture yourself.

Going to Mass is the prayer side of “prayer and fasting”. Not the fasting side.

You recognize that the OF is technically valid and that there is a valid, non-abusive way to conduct it. Good. That is correct. But you’re not required to like it, or attend it if you have other options. If you don’t have other options, grin and bear it. But if you do have other options, take advantage of them. By recognizing the validity of the OF, you’re already being obedient to the Pope.

Right now, you need to grow in your faith so that all the rich spiritual gifts blossom in your life like flowers. You don’t need to try to impress God or yourself by going to a Mass that brings you down. You’re supposed to like going to Mass if possible. Let it be a blessing to you in every way that it can be.

You love the EF and it feeds you. So go to it, dummy. 😛
 
bkovacs said:
Your not the only one!. This has been my dilemma for several years now.

Since I cannot attend a EF Mass, which the closest is in the next diocese. I mainly go to a Byzantine rite Liturgy. Either Eastern Catholic or Orthodox.
Click to expand...
To which rite do you officially belong? I am asking because some of your choices might not be allowed for a member of the Latin rite.
 
Cristiano said:
To which rite do you officially belong? I am asking because some of your choices might not be allowed for a member of the Latin rite.
Click to expand...
I was told by a UGCC priest that I am allowed to attend vespers at my local Antiochian Greek Orthodox Church and attend the Divine Liturgy at my local UGCC. Technically Roman Catholic, but listed Greek Catholic, since that is what I mainly attend. If an Anglican Use or Extraordinary Form parish starts locally, then I might once again list myself as Roman Catholic, since I might attend one of those. Bi-Ritual aren’t I. But no OF for me.

Uploaded with img232.imageshack.us/img232/7433/liturgies.jpgImageShack.us

They all face East!👍
 
bkovacs said:
I was told by a UGCC priest that I am allowed to attend vespers at my local Antiochian Greek Orthodox Church and attend the Divine Liturgy at my local UGCC. Technically Roman Catholic, but listed Greek Catholic, since that is what I mainly attend. If an Anglican Use or Extraordinary Form parish starts locally, then I might once again list myself as Roman Catholic, since I might attend one of those. Bi-Ritual aren’t I. But no OF for me.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I was just asking because of possible differences in the Code of Canon Law for Catholics outside the Latin rite.
 
Mr. Mooster, you’re going through a pretty typical phase of people who discover traditional Catholicism: the angry/frustrated/confused stage. It takes some people longer than others to go through this phase.

If you can go to the TLM, go. Let the Lord sort out the rest of it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top