My doctor told me Masturbation is healthy, normal and good

[truetofaith]

Stealing is a public concern. Masturbation is not. I’ll leave it at that.

#1 “I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.” - breaking the first Commandment is a mortal sin but is not “a public concern.”
How do you explain that, Mulligan2 ?

 

[Estevao]

I was in the confessional the other day, and the priest was telling me that it was a sin, but not mortal, as humans are designed by God to explore their own sexuality. It states in Youcat that it is not demonized to masturbate.
In reality, while one should avoid it, as much as one can, it is clear that blaming oneself constantly for a natural action may be wrong.
We live in a sexualised world, and we as Catholics must work to reverse this sexualisation. However, we are members of the human race, created by God. We are in the image of God. It is therefore necessary not to suppress our nature.

Get a different Catechism and consider a different confessor. He is doing you no favors in telling you that it’s “okay” to do this. Try the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or the real deal Catechism.

 

[Hobbes42]

#1 “I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.” - breaking the first Commandment is a mortal sin but is not “a public concern.”
How do you explain that, Mulligan2 ?

Exactly.

It’s fascinating, and horrifying, how much the philosophy of John MIll has seeped into thought in the West.

“It’s ok whatever I do as long as it doesn’t have immediate direct physical consequences on anyone else”

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Exactly.

It’s fascinating, and horrifying, how much the philosophy of John MIll has seeped into thought in the West.

“It’s ok whatever I do as long as it doesn’t have immediate direct physical consequences on anyone else”

In a pluralistic society that is pretty much the way it has to be since there can be many different beliefs and ideas about non public morality.

 

[Hobbes42]

In a pluralistic society that is pretty much the way it has to be since there can be many different beliefs and ideas about non public morality.

Not so fast.

While it is true that there are certain standards which groups must adhere to, these do not in any way affect an individuals belief.

Pluralistic societies don’t dictate individual morality. ( They can regulate public expression thereof, but they cannot decide anything further than that)

 

[Hobbes42]

Exactly.

It’s fascinating, and horrifying, how much the philosophy of John Mill has seeped into thought in the West.

“It’s ok whatever I do as long as it doesn’t have immediate direct physical consequences on anyone else”

 

[Mulligan2]

Exactly.

It’s fascinating, and horrifying, how much the philosophy of John MIll has seeped into thought in the West.

“It’s ok whatever I do as long as it doesn’t have immediate direct physical consequences on anyone else”

I don’t know why you’re belittling your last sentence, as it forms the foundation of our entire legal system - i.e. how your actions affect others. Someone masturbating in the privacy of their home is of no concern to the public whatsoever - none, zero, zilch, nada.

 

[EasterJoy]

The analogy is illogical. Stealing affects someone else - i.e. the person who was stolen from. Masturbation does not.

It is not quite so straight-forward as that. Your sexual faculty belongs to God, and after marriage to your spouse. It does not belong to you. Therefore to use your sexual faculty for your own self-gratification is a sort of theft.

That is not to say that something that is normally forbidden when pursued for the purpose of pleasure is always forbidden when truly necessary to alleviate suffering. For instance, narcotics may be administered to a degree that would be morally repugnant, except when needed to relieve serious pain. They may even be used to relieve the suffering of a dying person a degree that can realistically be expected to hasten death or given to a seriously wounded person when they might marginally increase the danger of death, when the suffering is serious enough and hastening death is not the objective.

No one here would go so far as to say that getting high is “healthy, normal, and good,” but OTOH no one would forbid the use of narcotics outright even in a time when most contemporary use was utterly immoral. For that reason, it is within the realm of possibility that stimulation for the purpose of achieving a sexual climax outside the marital act could conceivably have a morally-defensible use. Identifying that rare instance may exist is a far cry from giving carte blanche to someone who wants an excuse to masturbate. Still, it is possible that this might be permissible as a last resort, when other means of relieving such intense pain have proven fruitless. Masturbation does have serious moral implications, however, and certainly would be the treatment of last resort, when it is allowed at all. (After all, chemical pain relievers also must be used with a caution towards avoiding enslavement of the patient to immoral use or, even worse, a faculty-robbing addiction.)

 

[truetofaith]

I don’t know why you’re belittling your last sentence, as it forms the foundation of our entire legal system - i.e. how your actions affect others. Someone masturbating in the privacy of their home is of no concern to the public whatsoever - none, zero, zilch, nada.

I guess you didn’t see this :

#1 “I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.” - breaking the first Commandment is a mortal sin but is not “a public concern.”
How do you explain that, Mulligan2 ?

 

[Mulligan2]

I guess you didn’t see this :

#1 “I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.” - breaking the first Commandment is a mortal sin but is not “a public concern.”
How do you explain that, Mulligan2 ?

It’s not a public concern. Full stop. There’s really nothing else I need to add to this.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Not so fast.

While it is true that there are certain standards which groups must adhere to, these do not in any way affect an individuals belief.

Pluralistic societies don’t dictate individual morality. ( They can regulate public expression thereof, but they cannot decide anything further than that)

Right.

Just because masterbation happens to be a sin in Catholic tradition does not mean we can hold non Catholics to our personal, individual or Church standard, though we can certainly advocate for chasity in all forms as well as other moral concerns held by the Church. we can always try to influence.

 

[Mulligan2]

It is not quite so straight-forward as that. Your sexual faculty belongs to God, and after marriage to your spouse. It does not belong to you. Therefore to use your sexual faculty for your own self-gratification is a sort of theft.

That is not to say that something that is normally forbidden when pursued for the purpose of pleasure is always forbidden when truly necessary to alleviate suffering. For instance, narcotics may be administered to a degree that would be morally repugnant, except when needed to relieve serious pain. They may even be used to relieve the suffering of a dying person a degree that can realistically be expected to hasten death or given to a seriously wounded person when they might marginally increase the danger of death, when the suffering is serious enough and hastening death is not the objective.

No one here would go so far as to say that getting high is “healthy, normal, and good,” but OTOH no one would forbid the use of narcotics outright even in a time when most contemporary use was utterly immoral. For that reason, it is within the realm of possibility that stimulation for the purpose of achieving a sexual climax outside the marital act could conceivably have a morally-defensible use. Identifying that rare instance may exist is a far cry from giving carte blanche to someone who wants an excuse to masturbate. Still, it is possible that this might be permissible as a last resort, when other means of relieving such intense pain have proven fruitless. Masturbation does have serious moral implications, however, and certainly would be the treatment of last resort, when it is allowed at all. (After all, chemical pain relievers also must be used with a caution towards avoiding enslavement of the patient to immoral use or, even worse, a faculty-robbing addiction.)

I don’t have the inclination to discuss this further, as I can already see there is a clear difference in our approach. Further discussion would simply be a re-hashing of previous posts. At this point I’ll just politely thank you for your reply and excuse myself from this thread.

 

[EasterJoy]

Right.

Just because masterbation happens to be a sin in Catholic tradition does not mean we can hold non Catholics to our personal, individual or Church standard, though we can certainly advocate for chasity in all forms as well as other moral concerns held by the Church. we can always try to influence.

We are speaking on a matter of natural law, not some ecclesiastical matter. We have the same duty to speak our common sense on matters of morals as anyone else does. If no one in society thinks themselves worthy to enter into such a debate, then we are doomed to have a society that is utterly without moral compass. Who, after all, is their own best moral compass, when temptation is at their elbow to guide them? We all need outside compass in order to become the best versions of ourselves.* Even the most secular moral philosophers recognize this!*

 

[agapewolf]

It’s not a public concern. Full stop. There’s really nothing else I need to add to this.

This bleeds over into a lack of understanding of the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Sin affects ALL. “full stop”. Even the most personal private secret sin…it effects everyone. It pulls us out of communion with the church. It effects how free we are to be fully ourselves at our best in the state of grace. The soul ties that gain hold, possibly into habits and oppression – slippery slope.

Hence why we go to confession to a priest-- who represents the church, to reconcile back into communion.

So yes, it is, in a way, a “public concern”.

 

[truetofaith]

It’s not a public concern. Full stop. There’s really nothing else I need to add to this.

My point is …these are not public concerns, BUT they are Sins!..now remove yourself from this Topic, if you wish.

 

[bisco]

unfortunately, mulligan2 has confused our legal system with the op’s question, which is what the thread is about. the churches position on masturbation, not the government’s. but i notice he does this a lot, throws out some gasoline, then ‘politely bows out’
if we try to convince ourselves that ‘if it’s legal, it can’t be a sin’, we’re going to be in for a rude awakening someday.

 

[OurLadysServant]

Legal by law is completely different to God’s law.
The apostles said in the bible: ‘We obey God, and not men.’

Aborition, gay marriage, contraceptives and euthanasia being made legal in countries ?
It’s not God’s law.
Can a government contradict God’s law as set down by the Bible (God’s Word), the Commandments (given by God to Moses), Jesus teachings, the ruling of the Popes, catholic bishops, Vatican, the Catechism created by the catholic bishops under the Pope, the saints, the writings of the saints and the private revelation of the saints, over the last 2,000 years?

God’s law is the Commandments.
The commandments say: ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery.’ (Any act of intercourse outside marriage. Include going solo and committing the deed to yourself).
that includes as Jesus said ‘Anyone who looks at a woman lustfully,’ (pornography, impure images, films, etc…)

ANY act regarding the genital organs is DESIGNED by God ONLY for a husband and wife to CREATE CHILDREN. Otherwise it’s a grave PERVERSION.
The bible says: ‘Did you not know you are not your own? That you were bought at a price? That your BODY is a TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.’

God’s Law is forever. God gave the commandments. Jesus furthered the commandments.

The Catechism, from the Pope and Bishops is 100% that masturbation is a GRAVE MATTER, if committed deliberately, in freedom and full knowledge is a MORTAL SIN, meaning one cuts oneself off from God’s grace, means one CANNOT receive the Body and Blood of our Lord in communion, and if one dies without confessing and unrepentant, one CANNOT get into Heaven.

Is it worth an eternity in hell?

If you want to see what God thinks of SINS OF IMPURITY watch the clip of Jesus scourging in the Passion of the Christ.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRqXOaWUdVM&autoplay=1

Isaiah: ‘He was wounded for our transgressions.’
This is what the sin of masturbation causes Jesus to suffer, still suffering His Passion in all the masses and tabernacles of the Altar until the end of time.

 

[truetofaith]

This is not adultery.
Adultery is defined as “voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband.”
It has nothing to do with masturbation.
Looking at a woman with lust isn’t adultery, either.
And I guess, as per Jesus’ quote…looking at a man lustfully is definitely not adultery, since he didn’t even mention that one.

.

The sins you mention are covered under the 6th Commandment which is “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” There is more detail in Romans 1 : 24 - 32

 

[bisco]

‘if you look at a woman with lust, you have committed adultery in your heart.’

 

[truetofaith]

‘if you look at a woman with lust, you have committed adultery in your heart.’

Right…Matt. 5 : 27 & 28