My EF Mass Experience

[ProVobis]

Yes, Jesus said let the children come to me etc. I was so impressed with the kids being good and dressed nicely but I did not say so to their parents, possibly because I am so used to the parents of mainly preschoolers and older with their kids causing fusses and turning the sanctuary into a snack bar.

Just an observation on my part but in pre-Vatican II days when there were 6-7 Masses said on a Sunday morning and most were within walking distance of the church, it wasn’t unusual for one parent to watch the baby at home while the other attended Mass. Then later in the school days the kids sat with their classes at their own Mass. I don’t remember too many families attending all at once. You see much more of that now.

 

[Joannm]

Just an observation on my part but in pre-Vatican II days when there were 6-7 Masses said on a Sunday morning and most were within walking distance of the church, it wasn’t unusual for one parent to watch the baby at home while the other attended Mass. Then later in the school days the kids sat with their classes at their own Mass. I don’t remember too many families attending all at once. You see much more of that now.

I never attended Mass with my parents when in elementary school. We had a mass in the church that only the kids, their teachers and the ushers could attend. All other adults had to go to mass in the school basement which the kids were in the church.

 

[MissRose73]

I would have to ask my mother who was a teen/young adult in the 1960’s when she remembers being able to go to Saturday evening Mass for it to count for Sunday obligation.

There’s only one such EF Mass in my general area. (Indiana actually) And it does count for Sunday.

The situation wasn’t the same in 1962, however. So there may be hesitancy to install a Saturday evening EF (to count for Sunday) for that reason.

 

[Chatter163]

I would have to ask my mother who was a teen/young adult in the 1960’s when she remembers being able to go to Saturday evening Mass for it to count for Sunday obligation.

This varied by diocese, but in most American regions was in the late sixties and early seventies. A few came later.

 

[Chatter163]

Note: Technically a High Mass requires a Priest, a Deacon, and a Sub-Deacon. A mass which is sung, but lacks deacons is technically not a High Mass but a Missa Cantata (sung mass). But, most people don’t make this distinction.

This is actually not correct in the EF. The terms were revised in the late 1950s, and the EF uses the 1962 liturgical books. There are two kinds of High Mass: Sung and Solemn. A Sung Mass (Missa Cantata), which has only the priest, or a Solemn Mass, which also has deacon and subdeacon. The latter was previously known as a Solemn High Mass, but the terms were changed in the last years of the old missal, so as to emphasize that both Sung and Solemn Masses are types of High Masses. Incense is optional at a Sung Mass, but it had become more frequently used in the fifties, which also was a reason to designate the Sung Mass as one type of High Mass.

 

[rben20]

Glad you enjoyed your experience at an EF Mass. There are many reasons why the Pope has allowed the EF back into common use. One of them agrees with your opinion in that the EF hopefully rubs off on the OF in being celebrated next to it.

 

[MissRose73]

I would definitely attend an EF Mass again, especially if one was offered much closer to where I live. I am glad the Holy Father is allowing the EF Mass. It was a great experience for me. I have not found one in my diocese, perhaps not enough people have expressed interest or they just simply travel elsewhere for the EF Mass.

If only parents would make better faith attempts to get their preschoolers and older kids to behave (without snacks and toys), people to dress more modestly & a bit better for Mass, and stay til Mass is done (unless you have a good reason to leave early) which are things I never had to worry about at the EF Mass.

Glad you enjoyed your experience at an EF Mass. There are many reasons why the Pope has allowed the EF back into common use. One of them agrees with your opinion in that the EF hopefully rubs off on the OF in being celebrated next to it.

 

[malphono]

Incense is optional at a Sung Mass, but it had become more frequently used in the fifties, which also was a reason to designate the Sung Mass as one type of High Mass.

Incense wasn’t exactly “optional” for a Missa Cantata. It was allowed, but by episcopal indult (which was normally granted, and usuall granted for a period of time (renewable) rather than on an ad-hoc basis). IIRC, the 1962 rubrics allowed for the general use of incense at a Missa Cantata, thus eliminating the requirement of episcopal indult for same.

 

[Chatter163]

Incense wasn’t exactly “optional” for a Missa Cantata. It was allowed, but by episcopal indult (which was normally granted, and usuall granted for a period of time (renewable) rather than on an ad-hoc basis). IIRC, the 1962 rubrics allowed for the general use of incense at a Missa Cantata, thus eliminating the requirement of episcopal indult for same.

The requirement for the indult was indeed rescinded and no more indult was needed. Thus, incense is optional, which is what I said.

 

[Windmill]

Jeepers,

You liturgico’s are getting a little off topic with the debate over terminology. Can you say, “Rabbit hole”?

I think we have to remember that those seeking out an EF Mass are making a conscious decision because it accords with their spiritual temperaments and sensibilities. Most people are going to a mainstream parish, and it is there that you will find the greater variety of Catholics. As James Joyce said, “Catholic means, 'Here comes everybody.” You have the reverent types, the lax types, and all in between.

For my own part, I try to pray my best at whichever Mass I’m at…but if there was an EF Mass in my town, that’s all I’d attend. It accords with my spirituality (I pray the 1962 Divine Office in Latin, I read traditional Catholic books, and I love solemnity).

 

[TimothyH]

Why does everything have to be an experience?

I really don’t mean this as a poke at the OP and am truly interested in the Mass which was described. I just leanred of a Church within a 45 minute drive of my home with a latin Mass and intend to go myself.

But why does everthing nowadays reduce to an experience? We don’t by cars any more. The car itself doesn’t matter apart from it’s outward appearance. Instead we have a “Car buying experience.” We don’t eat steak but instead have a “Dining experience.” I live in the deep south and there are literally billboards for Churches which advertise this or that type of “worship experience.” I’m wondering what the difference is here?

Again, I mean this in the spirit of charity and good will. How was the worship offered to God different? Or was it different? What about the substance of the worship? Is it all about what one recieves from the worship or is one able to render more or less acceptable worship to God?

I think a few touched on it but I would like to hear more.

-Tim-

 

[moon1234]

The Missa Cantata is the sung Mass which is longer than the Low Mass. It is generally started by the priest and altar boys processing around the church whilst the Asperges Mei is sung…the priest uses holy water during this.

It is quite a complicated Mass for the newcomer as several different things are useally happening simulataneously. When I first went I was happy to watch …it is a stunning experience, very beautiful. It took me many months to really get the whole Mass understood by myself.

The Leoline Prayers are not said after a Missa Cantata.

The Asperges is only done at the principal Mass on Sunday and only outside of Eastertide. The Vidi Aquam is sung during Eastertide.

There are many different levels of solemnity for the EF (Tridentine) Mass.

Low Mass
High Mass (Missa Cantata)
Solemn High Mass
Pontifical High Mass
Pontifical High Mass at the Throne.

The last two involve the local Bishop, a Cardinal or the Pope as the main celebrent.

High Mass was a compromise that developed over the last few hundred years when there were not enough clergy for a solemn high Mass. Essentially when a deacon and subdeacon were not available. The last two are essentially the same as a solemn high Mass, but with some extra solemnity for the prelate.

 

[moon1234]

Glad you enjoyed your experience at an EF Mass. There are many reasons why the Pope has allowed the EF back into common use. One of them agrees with your opinion in that the EF hopefully rubs off on the OF in being celebrated next to it.

Technically the Pope did not “Allow” it back in. He stated, in Summorum Pontificum, that it had NEVER been supressed. All of the Bishops who tried to shut down EF Masses before SP were in error.

The Pope simply re-asserted what had always been law, that the EF Mass had never been supressed.

Maybe a minor quibble for some, but it is a very important distinction.

 

[Cat]

Why does everything have to be an experience?

I really don’t mean this as a poke at the OP and am truly interested in the Mass which was described. I just leanred of a Church within a 45 minute drive of my home with a latin Mass and intend to go myself.

But why does everthing nowadays reduce to an experience? We don’t by cars any more. The car itself doesn’t matter apart from it’s outward appearance. Instead we have a “Car buying experience.” We don’t eat steak but instead have a “Dining experience.” I live in the deep south and there are literally billboards for Churches which advertise this or that type of “worship experience.” I’m wondering what the difference is here?

Again, I mean this in the spirit of charity and good will. How was the worship offered to God different? Or was it different? What about the substance of the worship? Is it all about what one recieves from the worship or is one able to render more or less acceptable worship to God?

I think a few touched on it but I would like to hear more.

-Tim-

Interesting question, and one that I ask often of Catholics.

I work in a hospital, and recently, the entire staff was required to attend a presentation by Disney about management and the management techniques used at the various Disney theme parks.These management techniques have been adapted for hospitals and are being used at various hospitals around the U.S.

The Disney management system is based on the idea of giving people “an experience.”

Here’s how it works. Let’s say you come to our hospital for an appendectomy. From the moment you enter the E.D. moaning in pain, you have entered “the Appendectomy Experience.” It is our job to make your experience a joy on all levels–physical, mental, and spiritual.

Yes, I’m having a hard time typing this without laughing, but it’s actually true. Our hospital hasn’t actually implemented this management system yet, but it’s in the works.

Getting back to your question, I believe that in the U.S., many companies and organizations are using some aspect of the Disney management system and selling “experiences”

And they are selling well, and that’s why companies keep using “experiences.”

And of course, this means that we, the consumers, are used to a constant barrage of “experiences.” As you mentioned, we have “car driving experiences,” and “dining experiences.” I’ve seen “shopping experiences,” “theater experiences,” “fitness experiences,” and “education experiences.”

So many companies now say something along the lines of “Come and experience our …” (whatever they are selling).

I don’t really see anything wrong or evil or sinful in this. But it makes sense to be aware of our quest for “experiences” here in the U.S., and make sure that when we go to Mass, that we aren’t just looking for a “Mass experience,” but that we are meeting a Real Person, Jesus Christ, Truly God and Truly Man, Truly Present in the Eucharist.

JESUS is true, no matter WHAT our “Mass Experience” is like. And HE is the reason for Mass–not the music or the architecture or the language or the costumes or the quiet or the noise. Yes, all of that stuff contributes to our personal “experience” and makes meeting Jesus very pleasant for us. But the point of Mass is to receive Jesus.

 

[MissRose73]

I know I was an EF Mass newcomer, and knew it would be a different way compared to the OF I am accustomed to all my life.

I would like to attend an EF Mass more often as it was a much more reverent atmosphere overall with the way people dressed and behaved including the children & the young people present. I wished some of those items would trickle down to OF like people dressing a bit better, and people treating the sanctuary with respect by silently reflecting/praying before Mass compared to the low voices at OF Masses.

It certainly has affected me, and I only have gone to one EF Mass so far: I dress much better (but I have been modest even before the EF Mass), wearing head covering, and remaining quiet in the sanctuary before Mass compared to low whispers or talking to others before Mass starts.

 

[MissRose73]

I did attend another Low Mass last week. I understood more this time around…

I am hoping someday to be able to go to a High Mass someday…

You will need to try out a High Mass now! It’s a very different experience compared to a Low Mass!

I hope you enjoyed this form of the mass and attend again!

 

[rben20]

Technically the Pope did not “Allow” it back in. He stated, in Summorum Pontificum, that it had NEVER been supressed. All of the Bishops who tried to shut down EF Masses before SP were in error.

The Pope simply re-asserted what had always been law, that the EF Mass had never been supressed.

Maybe a minor quibble for some, but it is a very important distinction.

You are correct moon. People simply acted like it was abrogated…even I fall victim to that thinking! After all it was the priests and bishops who treated the EF as so.

 

[malphono]

Technically the Pope did not “Allow” it back in. He stated, in Summorum Pontificum, that it had NEVER been supressed. All of the Bishops who tried to shut down EF Masses before SP were in error.

The Pope simply re-asserted what had always been law, that the EF Mass had never been supressed.

Maybe a minor quibble for some, but it is a very important distinction.

IMO, it’s not a minor quibble at all. It cuts to bottom line. In the accompanying letter to Summorum Pontificum, PP Benedict XVI very clearly says (emphasis added)

What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful.

and that may well be the most important statement of all.

 

[karow]

Why does everything have to be an experience?

Again, I mean this in the spirit of charity and good will. How was the worship offered to God different? Or was it different? What about the substance of the worship? Is it all about what one recieves from the worship or is one able to render more or less acceptable worship to God?

Truly spot on observation.

I have to wonder if all the threads debating clothing worn to Mass, women’s head coverings, and general Mass behavior and decorum aren’t in part caused by expectations of having an experience, and people think and these things either add to or detract from their “Mass experience.”

One of the most telling threads I’ve read on this forum about this was one that appeared just the other day. The OP isn’t even Catholic but has been attending Masses in anticipation of RCIA. The poster went to an OF Mass for the first time and was so disappointed by the “experience” that he stated he’d never go to Mass again if that were the only Mass option. How sad, in my opinion.

 

[TrueLight]

Why does everything have to be an experience?

I understand what you’re asking, but we are human being and human beings have senses. We experience the world through sight, touch, hearing. feeling and smelling. And then there’s the spiritual senses.

So it’s not correct to imply that those who like a certain liturgy is focused on the “experience” as some have implied in this thread but also on other threads, especially when it comes to traditional masses.

Those who prefer the ordinary form also prefer their experience of an ordinary form, whether it be the different mass settings, the responses, the variety in music, the listening to the vernacular etc.

As much as some traditionalists will only attend the EF, others will only attend the OF.

So we all live our life through experience.