My ex-Catholic friends - escaping from guilt?

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betsybug354:
Questions I’m pondering right now: What’s up with all these guilt trips?Is this something that was common in the past but now not so much?Do you think that this is the main reason adults who were cradle Catholics leave the church?Just some honest questions I’m asking on my journey home.
I refer to this age group as the lost generation. IME, those apostate catholics formed in the 70’s/80’s all have had bad catechism and/or poor priests. When they lack the truth and are deprived of the true faith, they become low hanging fruit for heretical sects. Again, IME, the post VII kids seem to be a casualty of a larger liberal or modernist epidemic. It may not have been intended by the councils but it still remains a fact.

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So I was at the gym with my friend this morning and had an interesting conversation. My friend was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools all the way through high school, but is now Pentecostal. Her husband is also a former Catholic but is now Lutheran. My friend seems to have very little understanding of true Catholicism and espouses the typical Protestant beliefs, such as “Catholics are into idolatry,” “all we need is the Bible,” “just me and Jesus”, etc. As I probed a little further, she told me that the bottom line for her in leaving was how guilty she was made to feel when she would go to confession when she was young, and how she felt like she never really fit in at her all-girls high school.

After a few minutes of this conversation an older lady joined us in our conversation. Turns out she is also a former Catholic, now Baptist. She agreed wholeheartedly with my friend’s assessment of being made to feel guilty as a child in the Church.

My son’s assistant soccer coach says he left the church 25 years ago for basically the same reason. He’s now an ELCA Lutheran.

Questions I’m pondering right now:
  • What’s up with all these guilt trips?
  • Is this something that was common in the past but now not so much?
  • Do you think that this is the main reason adults who were cradle Catholics leave the church?
Just some honest questions I’m asking on my journey home.
I love going to confession as it gives me a clean, fresh start on my spiritual journey. I try to go once per month or two. It really helps me sin less the more often I go. I think anyone who doesn’t put continuous effort into learning and growing their religious beliefs is prone to fall for anyone that comes along and makes a different argument. To be obedient is not easy and tests will always come to members of Christ’s Church. Sorry to hear so many Catholics in your life were lacking the effort to stay in Christ’s Church. Satan always tries to pull people away from it.
 
I remember how confused and angry and frustrated I felt as a small child attending private Catholic grammar school, taught by old-world full-habit nuns. We - the kids - were prepping for the first 2 sacraments.

It seemed all about guilt and pain and the sins you committed, and being sure to remember every single one, and to “CONFESS!” them appropriately to the Priest. I use caps/exclamation point purposefully because that’s how it felt to me, as if I was just a little bug with all these huge people standing judgment over me, forcing me to cower and cry. I was overwhelmed! Then I learned that we were going to be going to Confession every week, and we had to be sure to “tell all your sins and be heartily sorry.” I remember raising my hand and asking a question “But what if you didn’t do any sins?” The nun was shocked. Absolutely shocked. I was berated, asked if I thought I was perfect… the other kids made fun if me and laughed at me. But I was serious! I couldn’t remember a darned thing I had (allegedly) done that deserved “confessing”, but I was totally expected to debase myself by confessing things that didn’t happen! It was awful, just awful. In my true child-like logic I figured out that gosh-darnit I’d better sin so I’d have something to confess, because I’d have to go kneel inside that dark scary booth anyway and if I said I hadn’t done anything to confess, I’d be labeled prideful and a liar, and I’d be punished by the Priest for that!

I remember learning that saying “curse-words” “hurt God” so I’d play solitary jump-rope and every time I jumped, I would mutter a “curse” under my breath and count them, so I would be able to tell the Priest “I cursed so-many times.” I didn’t even know what a “curse-word” was for! I imagined that when I uttered st or fk that it was like I was making God stub his toe. Seriously.

My sister was 10 years older than me, and she did not treat me well. She was cruel. She would harass me and push me to the point where I would cry, and she’d laugh at me. Finally, I’d strike out and hit her in frustration, and she would then run and tell our mother that I had hit her. I’d get punished and she’s get sympathy. I don’t know if she “confessed” her abuse of me, but I surely had to remember “hitting my sister” and suffering penance for it. Me, not her! In fact, I remember specifically the Priest telling me after I confessed “I hit my sister” that I must have felt anger in order to “do violence” and because I had not confessed being angry, that was very bad as I had tried to withhold a sin from him and I had to tell him everything so he could tell God, and now I needed to perform even more penance. But I hadn’t been angry. I was hurt and frustrated and nobody would listen to me or explain answers to any of my questions! I tried to tell him but he snapped at me to be quiet, said I should stop making excuses, that he’d remember my voice next week and I’d better not be doing the same things again. WHAT?! I thought - then what other sins could I possibly concoct? I was careful to go to another Priest’s section next time. I wanted no part of that Priest and his ledger-book and his hot-line to God!

In spite of all this confusion, I always felt so close to God, but these “rules and regulations” seemed extraneous because no reasons or explanations were offered. It was pounded into our heads what we had to do and not do, but the reasons “why” never came! There was a huge hole in my heart. I wanted to be educated about how all the rules worked, what everything meant, where we were being led and why, and I remember wanting to be a Priest, the most intimate, deep and loving “job” I could imagine, to be with God all the time. My “job” would be to learn all there was to learn, and work with God every day, and I would be nice to the children instead of mean and teach them all they ached to know! I was told that this wasn’t possible because only boys could be Priests. In other words, it wasn’t my place to learn any of the special, sacred, secret things. I could be a nun, though. Um, no. From what I saw of them, that was not my calling.

Someone on these forums once stated (about me, on one of my early posts) that they knew that I had *“…rejected the RCC because you felt your will should have been done rather than the will of God through his Church. I think it is very sad that so many seek to make God the way they want God to be, to fit their idea rather than to seek the truth of God. So many are in love with the ‘magic’ gift that they think the priest possesses when he consecrates the host that they lose sight of the fact that it is the body and blood of Jesus that is the greatest gift of all. You couldn’t have wanted to be a priest that badly or you would never have walked away from the Holy Eucharist. It just seems to me that you traded what you perceived as male worship for your invention of female worship…” *

That was a slap in my face. I was totally misunderstood, just like when I was a child, but I walked away without a response. (After all, “you can’t teach a pig to sing.”) They had absolutely no idea what was in my mind or my heart.
 
I remember how confused and angry and frustrated I felt as a small child attending private Catholic grammar school, taught by old-world full-habit nuns. We - the kids - were prepping for the first 2 sacraments.

It seemed all about guilt and pain and the sins you committed, and being sure to remember every single one, and to “CONFESS!” them appropriately to the Priest. I use caps/exclamation point purposefully because that’s how it felt to me, as if I was just a little bug with all these huge people standing judgment over me, forcing me to cower and cry. I was overwhelmed! Then I learned that we were going to be going to Confession every week, and we had to be sure to “tell all your sins and be heartily sorry.” I remember raising my hand and asking a question “But what if you didn’t do any sins?” The nun was shocked. Absolutely shocked. I was berated, asked if I thought I was perfect… the other kids made fun if me and laughed at me. But I was serious! I couldn’t remember a darned thing I had (allegedly) done that deserved “confessing”, but I was totally expected to debase myself by confessing things that didn’t happen! It was awful, just awful. In my true child-like logic I figured out that gosh-darnit I’d better sin so I’d have something to confess, because I’d have to go kneel inside that dark scary booth anyway and if I said I hadn’t done anything to confess, I’d be labeled prideful and a liar, and I’d be punished by the Priest for that!

I remember learning that saying “curse-words” “hurt God” so I’d play solitary jump-rope and every time I jumped, I would mutter a “curse” under my breath and count them, so I would be able to tell the Priest “I cursed so-many times.” I didn’t even know what a “curse-word” was for! I imagined that when I uttered st or fk that it was like I was making God stub his toe. Seriously.

My sister was 10 years older than me, and she did not treat me well. She was cruel. She would harass me and push me to the point where I would cry, and she’d laugh at me. Finally, I’d strike out and hit her in frustration, and she would then run and tell our mother that I had hit her. I’d get punished and she’s get sympathy. I don’t know if she “confessed” her abuse of me, but I surely had to remember “hitting my sister” and suffering penance for it. Me, not her! In fact, I remember specifically the Priest telling me after I confessed “I hit my sister” that I must have felt anger in order to “do violence” and because I had not confessed being angry, that was very bad as I had tried to withhold a sin from him and I had to tell him everything so he could tell God, and now I needed to perform even more penance. But I hadn’t been angry. I was hurt and frustrated and nobody would listen to me or explain answers to any of my questions! I tried to tell him but he snapped at me to be quiet, said I should stop making excuses, that he’d remember my voice next week and I’d better not be doing the same things again. WHAT?! I thought - then what other sins could I possibly concoct? I was careful to go to another Priest’s section next time. I wanted no part of that Priest and his ledger-book and his hot-line to God!

In spite of all this confusion, I always felt so close to God, but these “rules and regulations” seemed extraneous because no reasons or explanations were offered. It was pounded into our heads what we had to do and not do, but the reasons “why” never came! There was a huge hole in my heart. I wanted to be educated about how all the rules worked, what everything meant, where we were being led and why, and I remember wanting to be a Priest, the most intimate, deep and loving “job” I could imagine, to be with God all the time. My “job” would be to learn all there was to learn, and work with God every day, and I would be nice to the children instead of mean and teach them all they ached to know! I was told that this wasn’t possible because only boys could be Priests. In other words, it wasn’t my place to learn any of the special, sacred, secret things. I could be a nun, though. Um, no. From what I saw of them, that was not my calling.

Someone on these forums once stated (about me, on one of my early posts) that they knew that I had *“…rejected the RCC because you felt your will should have been done rather than the will of God through his Church. I think it is very sad that so many seek to make God the way they want God to be, to fit their idea rather than to seek the truth of God. So many are in love with the ‘magic’ gift that they think the priest possesses when he consecrates the host that they lose sight of the fact that it is the body and blood of Jesus that is the greatest gift of all. You couldn’t have wanted to be a priest that badly or you would never have walked away from the Holy Eucharist. It just seems to me that you traded what you perceived as male worship for your invention of female worship…” *

That was a slap in my face. I was totally misunderstood, just like when I was a child, but I walked away without a response. (After all, “you can’t teach a pig to sing.”) They had absolutely no idea what was in my mind or my heart.
I think some Catholics emphasize intra-Christian differences to the point that someone leaving Catholicism might think “Why stay Christian at all?”

Fwiw.
 
So I was at the gym with my friend this morning and had an interesting conversation. My friend was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools all the way through high school, but is now Pentecostal. Her husband is also a former Catholic but is now Lutheran. My friend seems to have very little understanding of true Catholicism and espouses the typical Protestant beliefs, such as “Catholics are into idolatry,” “all we need is the Bible,” “just me and Jesus”, etc. As I probed a little further, she told me that the bottom line for her in leaving was how guilty she was made to feel when she would go to confession when she was young, and how she felt like she never really fit in at her all-girls high school.

After a few minutes of this conversation an older lady joined us in our conversation. Turns out she is also a former Catholic, now Baptist. She agreed wholeheartedly with my friend’s assessment of being made to feel guilty as a child in the Church.

My son’s assistant soccer coach says he left the church 25 years ago for basically the same reason. He’s now an ELCA Lutheran.

Questions I’m pondering right now:
  • What’s up with all these guilt trips?
  • Is this something that was common in the past but now not so much?
  • Do you think that this is the main reason adults who were cradle Catholics leave the church?
Just some honest questions I’m asking on my journey home.
As a cradle Catholic myself, I can share these observations I have looking back, at friends I went through 12 years of Catholic school with.

There is a culture, discipline and obedience to faith in being a good and faithful Catholic. Paul even complemented the Church of Rome in their obedience of faith. He said the whole world has heard about it. Not just their faith but their obedience of faith was the point. The friends I had in school that I’m thinking of in particular, who left the faith, were “A” students. So when it came to knowledge of the faith for THEM, lack of knowledge wasn’t the issue. Some were even altar boys like myself. They knew the answers to all the questions in religion class. From my pov, looking back at this later in life, they did not live the faith, and they did not “will” to continue in the faith as a result of their life choices.

For example

Sin. Mortal sin exists. It’s easy to commit. Mortal sins are all listed in scripture as are the consequences when one is in them or remains in them. And mortal sins aren’t easy to confess especially if one is habitually commiting them or one doesn’t want to change. But by God’s own design, He established the sacrament of reconciliation to restore grace in the individual and get rid of guilt. So one can ask
  • WHO is the one who plays on our guilt and embarrassment
  • Who is the one therefore, keeping us away from confession?
  • Who is the one getting us to downplay mortal sin in our minds dumbing it down to a misdemeanor or no sin at all
It’s Satan.

So while on the one hand, being a faithful Catholic isn’t easy for some or maybe many, on the other hand, being a faithful Catholic is the easiest way to heaven.

let’s face it, even Jesus, the best teacher in the universe, who performed miracles in front of the crowds, when addressing even His followers face to face, most walk away from Him because what He wanted from them was too hard to swallow. That’s an act of their will being exercised against the will of God. That’s how powerful our free will is, and it’s given to us by God. Can those who walked away from Jesus say, they didn’t get good enough teaching that’s why they left? Nope!

Here’s what I think went wrong for my friends who left the Church
  • BOTH father and mother weren’t united together on the same page with the faith. Looking back, dad went golfing or fishing or stayed in bed on Sunday and didn’t go united as a family Dad + Mom + kids to mass. When a child learns that deliberately missing mass on Sunday is a mortal sin, and why it is mortal sin, and sees his father deliberately missing mass, what’s the message?
  • Sometimes it’s mom too that isn’t there at mass. Dad and mom, send their kids to Catholic school during the week but on Sunday nobody goes to mass. Or maybe they are C & E Catholics, (Christmas & Easter). They have no connection to the Church all year long except for 2 (1 hour masses). And for the rest of the year, don’t bring their faith into their family life.
  • imv, dad should be the rock in the family. When he perseveres in faith and sets the example for the family with mom right there as a team effort, that plays a huge part in the kids success in maintaining their faith. (unless of course if dad or mom is not in the picture)
  • Much later, when I looked back on the life of these particular friends of mine, I was able to connect dots I wasn’t even thinking about connecting, when we were going through those early school years as kids.
  • When college rolled around and we all split up and went our own ways, those who didn’t practice their faith, many lost it.
as Peter said
  • 2 Pet 1: 5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
I think people leave the church because it is too much of a commitment for them. These commitments can be as simple as attending mass regularly or going to confession. When they miss, they feel guilty.

When they find an easier, more conveinient way to worship God and are justified by the protestant religion they join-the guilt goes away.
 
That’s really an interesting observation. I know very few people who grew up in a religious household who didn’t feel some sense of guilt. Guilt, at a healthy level, can be healthy in that it nags at us to stay away from things that are harmful. I am skeptical of any faith that affirms you exactly as you are - its difficult to say, based on Scripture or other meritorious teaching, that we’ve no need to change our habits, our desires, or our mindset.

I’ve always found confession to be tremendously liberating. I can’t say my experience is consistent for all Catholics, though I hope it to be. I will say that there have been times when, after Confession, I swear I smell jasmine or roses, even in the dead of winter. It could be lingering scent from incense during a benediction, or walking through the cloud of someone’s perfume, but I’ve always taken it as a small gift, something to say “The Lord is with you”.

Among my friends who are ex-Catholics, most of them left as adults and left over specific things, mainly sexual teaching. Several left because they didn’t want to be made to feel guilty that they were living with (and sleeping with) their significant other. One printed up pamphlets about why same-sex marriage should be allowed, put them in the pamphlet rack in the back of the church, and was angry when they were taken away (technically, it was because there was no stamp of approval from the parish council - something all materials must have to be posted within the church). Another left because, as a scientist, he felt it was incorrigible that the local bishop would speak out against GMOs despite their potential for increasing agricultural yields (nevermind that friends in his group spoke out against GMOs on scientific grounds). Perhaps one or two left over strictly theological reasons, ie one didn’t believe she was saved without an adult baptism and didn’t believe the Eucharist had real power (she searched probably a dozen churches before she joined her current one), and another left because she felt like she wasn’t “being fed” by the lackluster homilies.

This isn’t to dismiss the reasons why people leave; they have their reasons and they are, for them at least, sufficiently grave to justify their leaving. Something I’ve not seen us do well as Church is have an open door for that kind of doubt. I have long struggled with certain facets of our faith, and I remain Catholic partly because I’ve been able to find someone to help walk me through it, or explain it to me, or lead me to the conclusion that it wasn’t a vital necessity that I accept this particular teaching in this particular way.
 
I think people leave the church because it is too much of a commitment for them. These commitments can be as simple as attending mass regularly or going to confession. When they miss, they feel guilty.
There’s a good reason why missing mass deliberately on Sunday is a mortal sin ( #17 )
m:
When they find an easier, more conveinient way to worship God and are justified by the protestant religion they join-the guilt goes away.
That might be what they tell themselves.
 
This may go without saying, but I feel it ought to be said: many people probably never understood the distinction we make between ex-Catholics and never-been-Catholics.
 
:amen: and Alleluia
Perhaps they never had a full understanding and/or relationship to Our Lord in the Eucharist.
That is what also drew me in I was raised in the pentecostal church of god.
 
I was raised in a catholic family, went to catholic school up until 7th grade, after which I went to public school, (where all my neighborhood friends went), my parent pretty much made me go to church each week, but I did not enjoy it…and in all those years from 1st grade up until 7th grade, going to mass all those times, I never once felt anything…not once!

Even after I grew older, I have tried many times talking to God, praying for guidance, help, giving my life to him, etc and still felt absolutely nothing. I was and still am a bit confused as Ive heard many people (including family members) talk about how they get ‘filled up’ each week at mass, and truly feel better…I have never experienced that though, so I think this is one reason I kind of wonder about the religion.

Dont get me wrong though, I still believe wholeheartedly in God, and that he created the world and everything in it. I still love God and try to live my life right, but unlike many others, I do not feel anything from praying, or going to mass. I wish I would though, its definitely not for lack of trying, I cant count the number of times I have tried asking God for help or praying, but when nothing happens and I get no response time after time, it does wear me down a bit.
I used to think that Mass was boring as well. Can I suggest a video that I watched the helped me a lot:
The Mass Explained - by Michael Cumbie
 
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