My Experience in A Russian Orthodox Church

[Augustus24]

I have wanted to visit an Orthodox Church for a while. I was trying to decide between a Russian (ROCOR) and a Greek (GOAA). I decided to go to the Russian today. I have recently fallen in love with Eastern liturgy and theology, and I am a Roman Catholic who is headed East, I just dont know how far East I am wanting to go.

On the drive over, I was praying to God, I asked the Holy Spirit to show me whether or not he wants me to move towards Orthodoxy. I confess that I wanted an excuse to hate this experience because I am reasonably comfortable where I am, I went through RCIA and confirmation in the Catholic Church, I dont really want to go through more months of training and reading for Chrismation in the Orthodox Church.

I walk in the parish hall where there were a few people. I am hoping that they will be rude to me, and unfriendly or the opposite, love bomb me in the way that the pentecostals used to, that way I can reject this church based on the quality of the people. Not so fast, I am greeted by a warm and welcoming couple who were friendly, but not too friendly. They welcome me, invite me to look around, and make my way into the church. Dang, I guess me rejecting the Church based on the quality of the people is out.

I walk into the Church. It was very small. The first thing I notice is that there are no pews. Well, I guess I am going to be standing the whole time. I quickly review the literature at the door, its all in Russian, so I cant read it. No worries. I didnt come here for literature. I make my way to the far corner and try my best to not stick out too sorely. A woman with a beautiful voice is chanting the psalms in Slavonic. The air is thick with incense. After the absence of pews, and the literature, the next thing I notice is the beautiful and wonderful icons adorning the walls, and the iconostasis. I reflect on the pictures of icons that I had seen in my textbooks in my art history classes. Wow, what a connection to artistic history. I feel like I am standing in a church in the late great Byzantine Empire.

Well, maybe I will dislike the liturgy. The 6 person choir begins their intonations completely in Slavonic. The deacon has a voice worthy of the Metropolitan Opera House. I cant understand a word, but I am taken back through time by the bells and chimes the chanting and the incense, to the age of the emperors, and councils. The liturgy starts out with only about 10 people in the church, mostly women. More and more worshipers come in throughout the liturgy, by the end there are at least 50 people, all standing, women with head coverings, old men with white beards, young couples, small children, all being attentive to the intonations, mystical clouds of incense, the icon doors swinging open and shut. Well, I guess that I cant hate this experience because of lack of reverence and beauty of the church and liturgy.

I am surprised at how “separate” the clergy seem from the parishioners. Most of the chanting and prayers are done behind the icon doors, for about 30 minutes there is a curtain closed, so I can see the priest and deacon at all presumably during the consecration. They pull back the curtains and open the main icon doors. I am also surprised at how little the congregation are participating. I am used to the Catholic novus ordo mass, where the people are calling back responses. The parishioners here say nothing, except for the occasional bow, and cross themselves. They dont have to say anything, their body language says it all. They are worshipping the undivided Trinity.

I am also surprised about how few people actually take communion. Out of 60 people, only about 15 took communion. This is different from the Catholic Church where most all of the people take communion.

After the liturgy, all the parishioners file out to the parish hall, I wait and fall in towards the back of the line. Inside the hall, they have prepared a wonderful lunch for the parishioners. They invite me and another man (who is also a visitor) to partake. I kindly refuse, as I have to save room to go out to lunch with my mother in law for mother’s day. The priest walks in, stops in front of me, and says something in Slavonic. I assume its “Christ is Risen” I tell him, I dont know how to respond in Slavonic, but Christ is risen indeed. I tell him that I am visitor and inquirer about Orthodoxy. He smiles and shakes my hand and welcomes me.

I have to leave the lunch because of my prior engagement with my Mother in Law. But I leave feeling satisfied and filled with the Spirit. There is something substantial, filling, and comforting about Orthodox worship, like a Christmas ham.

I am not sure I will be knocking the door of my local Orthodox Church to be received into the Church, at least not yet , But this experience was wonderful, and rewarding. And I salute my Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. Thank you for the wonderful experience, I will definitely be coming back for more.

Yours.

Aug.

 

[mark_a]

I confess that I wanted an excuse to hate this experience

I am hoping that they will be rude to me, and unfriendly or the opposite, love bomb me in the way that the pentecostals used to, that way I can reject this church based on the quality of the people.

Well, maybe I will dislike the liturgy.

I don’t mean to be rude, but the above seem like an aweful mindset in which to enter any Church.

Otherwise a very informative post.

 

[Augustus24]

I don’t mean to be rude, but the above seem like an aweful mindset in which to enter any Church.

Otherwise a very informative post.

Indeed I agree with you.

I am a work in progress.

 

[TrueLight]

Augustus, we had a very similar experience except in the case of the church I visited, the majority of the Liturgy was in English.

My favorite part:

Priest: “Christ is Risen”
People: “Indeed He’s Risen”, said enthusiastically

 

[ByzCath08]

Do you have any eastern catholic churches near you? If so, try them out as well

 

[Rawb]

I’m glad you posted your experience!

On the drive over, I was praying to God, I asked the Holy Spirit to show me whether or not he wants me to move towards Orthodoxy. I confess that I wanted an excuse to hate this experience because I am reasonably comfortable where I am, I went through RCIA and confirmation in the Catholic Church, I dont really want to go through more months of training and reading for Chrismation in the Orthodox Church.

Oh I know this feeling. I felt it exactly before my first time at Liturgy.

I feel like I am standing in a church in the late great Byzantine Empire.

I feel that often as well.

Well, I guess that I cant hate this experience because of lack of reverence and beauty of the church and liturgy.

No, of our many faults, lack of reverence and beauty of our temples and liturgy is not one of them.

I am surprised at how “separate” the clergy seem from the parishioners.

This surprised me. I always felt more connected to the consecration than in Catholicism, but our Royal doors are open almost the whole time. Different parish practices.

I am also surprised at how little the congregation are participating. I am used to the Catholic novus ordo mass, where the people are calling back responses. The parishioners here say nothing, except for the occasional bow, and cross themselves. They dont have to say anything, their body language says it all. They are worshipping the undivided Trinity.

Yes, we express ourselves more often in movements than in Catholicism (I should say, arguably. IMO we do) but this, again, can change from parish to parish. At my parish almost everyone sings along, says the prayers, responds, etc.

I am also surprised about how few people actually take communion. Out of 60 people, only about 15 took communion. This is different from the Catholic Church where most all of the people take communion.

Only those who’ve fasted and been to confession according to the guidance of their Spiritual Father will receive Communion. Again, expect variety - at my parish people often attend Confession and observe the midnight to Communion fast so almost everyone receives. Russians, however, often try to fast for an entire week before Communion. That’s probably why so few received.

I have to leave the lunch because of my prior engagement with my Mother in Law. But I leave feeling satisfied and filled with the Spirit. There is something substantial, filling, and comforting about Orthodox worship, like a Christmas ham.

I’m glad you had such a good experience. I know this feeling as well.

Thank you for the wonderful experience, I will definitely be coming back for more.

 

[smad0142]

My dear brother I would like to simply share a concern that came up in my heart while reading your post:

You are asking the Holy Spirit if He is calling you to Orthodoxy, even though He just called you to Catholicism (I mean after all you just joined Catholicism, so I assume you thought He was calling you there).

My concern here is that you don’t seem to have any objective standard against which to weigh the movements of your heart. For me, as an EC, I can use the Magesterium to make sure that the movements of my heart are really from God. It is a good practice in the spiritual life to always submit the movements of your heart to an objective reality and to a trusted spiritual guide. Since you are RC I would suggest to find a good and holy RC Priest as a spiritual director and to stick to the Magesterium.

Also I would highly recommend checking out the EC, especially the Melkites if you want a very Orthodox experience, before the EO.

But if you recall on your thread asking you which Church to go to, between Russian and Greek, I said Greek because I thought the Russians would not be as welcoming. I am glad I was wrong.

 

[Ignatius]

Indeed I agree with you.

I am a work in progress.

Have you visited any Eastern Catholic Church? It has the identical liturgy.
You can locate one nearby here: byzcath.org/

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down Death by death, and to those in the tombs bestowing life! (Troparion)

You descended into the tomb, O Immortal. You destroyed the power of Death. You arose as a victor, O Christ God. You announced to the women bearing ointment: “Rejoice!” You gave peace to Your apostles and resurrection to the Fallen. (Kontakion)

 

[GIR]

I agree with the other ECs that you should try Eastern CATHOLIC churches, and that you ought to weigh your feelings against what you know from RCIA, and from common sense. The Orthodox don’t have a solid magisterium because they don’t have a visible unified body to decide what is and is not valid etc. I believe it was Vladimir Soloviev that said that the union between the Orthodox is illusory and will eventually be revealed for what it is. The Greeks hate the Russians, and the Russians hate the Greeks. I even had one Orthodox who had the chutzpah to say that the Fathers supported birth control (remember the OC allows birth control and divorce) and he even said that the Fathers supported abortion!

It’s one thing to simply say “abortion is OK”, or to pull a Pelosi and say “well, the Fathers really weren’t clear”, but to say that they SUPPORTED such a barbarous practice when they clearly did not shows me there’s something wrong here. Not that all Orthodox support abortion by any means, but they lack the organized force to state as much.

As for what eastern Catholic church to try, the Maronites are nice. A good blend of East and West given their history and location. They never denied papal primacy (that we know of) and so there is no counterpart Maronite Orthodox Church outside of communion with Rome.

 

[Rawb]

The Orthodox don’t have a solid magisterium because they don’t have a visible unified body to decide what is and is not valid etc.

We’re perfectly visibly unified. I’m an ethnically German American born man who attends a Serbian parish. Yesterday I judged an Oratorical contest for the Greeks. My Godfather attends an OCA parish and I helped someone find an OCA parish to visit recently. Just because we lack your type of unity doesn’t make ours any less real. Validity is a Western concern.

I believe it was Vladimir Soloviev that said that the union between the Orthodox is illusory and will eventually be revealed for what it is.

And he is? So?

The Greeks hate the Russians, and the Russians hate the Greeks.

And the Libcaths hate the Neocons hate the Traditionalists…

I even had one Orthodox who had the chutzpah to say that the Fathers supported birth control (remember the OC allows birth control and divorce) and he even said that the Fathers supported abortion!

It’s one thing to simply say “abortion is OK”, or to pull a Pelosi and say “well, the Fathers really weren’t clear”, but to say that they SUPPORTED such a barbarous practice when they clearly did not shows me there’s something wrong here

.

I’ve had Catholics tell me abortion is fine, supported by the ECF’s. I’ve had other Catholics tell me that Christ blessed homosexual unions. I’ve had Catholic priests tell me it was my duty to vote for the Tea Party. Does any of this effect what the Catholic Church actually teaches? Does it tell *me *something is wrong?

Not that all Orthodox support abortion by any means, but they lack the organized force to state as much.

Whereas that organized force (force?) in your church appears to be working so well…

Not meant to start a debate, just point out the inconsistencies and suggest that perhaps people in glass houses shouldn’t be so hasty with those stones.

 

[smad0142]

I think the disctinction must be made between the existence of a clear and unified voice for the Catholic Church, and how well that voice is listened to.

There is no doubt where the Catholic Church stands on issues like abortion or contraception, regardless of how well the faithful listen to the Church’s teaching. On the other hand, there is a plurarilty of opinions within the Orthodox Church regarding issues such as contraception and Catholic Orders.

 

[5Loaves]

I’ve been following, and responded to , your other ongoing connected thread Should I check out a Russian or a Greek church first?.

Glad to read about your experience today. Does this parish have Sat. night Vespers? That is also a good time to go which should be a very rich experience. Not a Divine Liturgy, so no Eucharist. And Wed. 5/16 is Mid-Pentecost and Blessing of Water. The parish I’m going to will have the blessing of water at Vespers Tues night instead of a Wed. service. This coming Wed. is the feast of Saints Cyril and Methodius, Equals of the Apostles, and Enlighteners of the Slavs. I’d expect them to have services or Vespers the night before depending… they sound pretty large. Hopefully if you go again on a Sunday you’ll be able to stay to eat. Having fasted since last evening ad stood in Liturgy for several hours Russians are ready to eat!

 

[Augustus24]

I agree with the other ECs that you should try Eastern CATHOLIC churches, and that you ought to weigh your feelings against what you know from RCIA, and from common sense. The Orthodox don’t have a solid magisterium because they don’t have a visible unified body to decide what is and is not valid etc. I believe it was Vladimir Soloviev that said that the union between the Orthodox is illusory and will eventually be revealed for what it is. The Greeks hate the Russians, and the Russians hate the Greeks. I even had one Orthodox who had the chutzpah to say that the Fathers supported birth control (remember the OC allows birth control and divorce) and he even said that the Fathers supported abortion!

It’s one thing to simply say “abortion is OK”, or to pull a Pelosi and say “well, the Fathers really weren’t clear”, but to say that they SUPPORTED such a barbarous practice when they clearly did not shows me there’s something wrong here. Not that all Orthodox support abortion by any means, but they lack the organized force to state as much.

As for what eastern Catholic church to try, the Maronites are nice. A good blend of East and West given their history and location. They never denied papal primacy (that we know of) and so there is no counterpart Maronite Orthodox Church outside of communion with Rome.

My RCIA experience was terrible, I want to forget about it. Good thing I am convinced that Catholicism is true, else RCIA would have deterred me from joining up.

I dont get the sense that Greeks hate Russians, Russians hate Greeks at all. However that is insignificant to me being drawn to the byzantine liturgy.

However, I am attending an Eastern Catholic liturgy. Problem is, the EC Parish closest to me is about an hour away, and they only offer a mission in my area once a month in a borrowed Latin Rite chapel. I attended a Russian Church today because I was looking for Orthodoxy with all the trappings so to speak. But yes, If the EC parish was more accessible to me, I would consider formally switching into a Byzantine Rite Church.

 

[Augustus24]

Have you visited any Eastern Catholic Church? It has the identical liturgy.
You can locate one nearby here: byzcath.org/

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down Death by death, and to those in the tombs bestowing life! (Troparion)

You descended into the tomb, O Immortal. You destroyed the power of Death. You arose as a victor, O Christ God. You announced to the women bearing ointment: “Rejoice!” You gave peace to Your apostles and resurrection to the Fallen. (Kontakion)

Yes I have visited an Eastern Catholic Church. Problem is, the nearest one to me is an hour away. They offer a byzantine divine liturgy in my area only once a month, in a borrowed Latin Rite chapel, with no icons, no iconostasis.

 

[Rawb]

I think the disctinction must be made between the existence of a clear and unified voice for the Catholic Church, and how well that voice is listened to.

There is no doubt where the Catholic Church stands on issues like abortion or contraception, regardless of how well the faithful listen to the Church’s teaching. On the other hand, there is a plurarilty of opinions within the Orthodox Church regarding issues such as contraception and Catholic Orders.

If 10% of an organization believes something, I’m not sure you can accurately say that that organization “stands” solidly on that belief.

 

[smad0142]

Anyone who does not believe everything that the Catholic Church definitively teaches is not a part of the Church.

And you are still avoiding the fact that the Catholic Church, which is composed of the hierarchy and all baptized and believing Catholic, holds definitive positions on issues like contraception whereas the Orthodox Church does not. The Catholic Magesterium is much more firm and comprehensive.

 

[Rawb]

And you are still avoiding the fact that the Catholic Church, which is composed of the hierarchy and all baptized and believing Catholic, holds definitive positions on issues like contraception whereas the Orthodox Church does not.

Oh I avoid nothing. I’ll freely admit that Orthodoxy has no pre-set list of what is a “mortal sin” but entrusts the working out of salvation with fear and trembling to the believer and their Spiritual Father, who are more likely to be able to take in the entire situation and offer advice. We don’t do “one size fits all” in that way.

 

[smad0142]

Yes I have visited an Eastern Catholic Church. Problem is, the nearest one to me is an hour away. They offer a byzantine divine liturgy in my area only once a month, in a borrowed Latin Rite chapel, with no icons, no iconostasis.

The trappings of the Divine Litrugy and of an EC Parish are wonderful. Believe me, I thank God that I have four EC parishes within easy distance. But are the externals or the Faith more important. Maybe God wants you to fast and pray and sacrifice a lot so that this Byzantine mission becomes a full parish. If you want, I would help to fast and pray and sacrifice towards this end with you.

 

[smad0142]

Oh I avoid nothing. I’ll freely admit that Orthodoxy has no pre-set list of what is a “mortal sin” but entrusts the working out of salvation with fear and trembling to the believer and their Spiritual Father, who are more likely to be able to take in the entire situation and offer advice. We don’t do “one size fits all” in that way.

But surely a Spiritual Father must be well formed. A Spiritual Director who told me that murder wasn’t wrong, and he honestly believed it, would still be wrong. For Catholics contraception is one of those things that is intrinsically and gravely wrong.

The Church has never said that everyone who is involved with contraception commits a mortal sin though, and I am sure there are many people who do not incur a mortal sin because Catholic Priests or Nuns have told them that contraception isn’t bad. That does not change the fact that contraception is still an objectively seriously sinful act, apart from an indiviudals subjective responsibility.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

I think the disctinction must be made between the existence of a clear and unified voice for the Catholic Church, and how well that voice is listened to.

There is no doubt where the Catholic Church stands on issues like abortion or contraception, regardless of how well the faithful listen to the Church’s teaching. On the other hand, there is a plurarilty of opinions within the Orthodox Church regarding issues such as contraception and Catholic Orders.

Also, when I attended ROCOR, the priest told parishioners not to present themselves for Holy Communion in the Greek and Antiochian EOC. Also, ROCOR was out of communion with the Moscow Patriarchate (MP) at that time. There was also a time in the 1990s when the MP broke communion with the EP (Constantinople). The lack of unity within the various EOC is often seen not only in their disagreements on doctrine and discipline (and territorial jurisdiction), but in effectively breaking communion with each other.