My experience with IVF

[clskier]

First off, this is not a thread about what is right and wrong. I KNOW what I did was wrong. I have since prayed about it, gone to confession, and been absolved. What I want to do with this thread is bring up a couple of things for anyone of the mind set I was in to think about. That being said:

My wife and I have a very strong desire to have more children. After many miscarraiges, our doctor (we had already been seeing a reproductive endocrinologist due to the miscarriages) said our last hope was IVF. We had already told him this was off the table due to our religious beliefs. He respected that decision, but IVF is his bread and butter. So we discussed a plan in which we would not fertilize any more eggs than he thought prudent to implant (i.e. we would not freeze any babys or worse). So after much thought, prayer, and tears, we decided to proceed. At this point I was sick about entering into sin with so much pre-meditated thought beforehand. This was not just a slip up, this was full out willful disobedience to the Church and God!

So by now I’m trying to convince myself what we are doing is OK since we are not creating any extra children, and the first alarm goes off when we are signing the paperwork. We had to sign a form that specified what we wanted in the event that we both died in the three days between when they fertilize the eggs and implant them. As unlikely as that situation is, there it was on paper in black and white…only two choices…either destroy the child or donate to science. That was almost a deal breaker. I just couldn’t get past that. Even though the odds were one in a million, how could I sign that paper. In the end, I told myself if this was a natural pregnancy, the child would be in my wife, and pass with her.

The second alarm went off when I had to supply my part of the process. I’m a man and I would be lieing if I said I had never fallen to this sin before, but this was different. As I was carrying the beaker to the nurse, I was just thinking that this was part of a new life about to be created…in a lab. It just felt wrong.

Alarm number three was when we got the call later that day that two eggs had accepted my sperm. There were two babies of ours in that lab, and we were not there with them.

Three days later the babies were implanted in my wife. Seeing the nurse carrying a syringe, knowing our babies were in there; more alarms.

Well, the procedure did not take, the babies died, and there are two new souls in heaven. I now know better than ever why this is a sin, even if we were not creating any additional children. If you are of the mind set that IVF can be acceptable to Catholics, please think about these points long and hard.

 

[1ke]

God bless you for sharing your story.

 

[kristie_m]

Thank you…this is not a perspective that is often seen. God Bless you for sharing it!

 

[baltobetsy]

Thank you so much for sharing this story. It’s a part of the process that many simply refuse to acknowledge.

It may have been quite a mercy to you that the Lord called these little souls to Himself when He did. How heartbreaking would it have been for you to look into your child’s eyes every day and be reminded of your sin.

May God bless you richly.

Betsy

 

[clskier]

It may have been quite a mercy to you that the Lord called these little souls to Himself when He did. How heartbreaking would it have been for you to look into your child’s eyes every day and be reminded of your sin.

Not sure how you meant this, but I would gladly be reminded of my sins every minute of every day if it meant I could look into my child’s eyes!

 

[Lutheranteach]

Not sure how you meant this, but I would gladly be reminded of my sins every minute of every day if it meant I could look into my child’s eyes!

I had questions on that myself…

 

[Rence]

I’m very sorry that the procedure didn’t work for you and your wife, especially after all you had been though about it. I’m quite certain that had those two babies lived you would have loved them just as much as any other child you would have conceived the natural way. And looking in their eyes, you would have found them just as precious.

Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[anneline]

Thank you for sharing your story! God bless you and your wife!

 

[petesgottheseat]

Thank you for sharing your story. I know all too well what it’s like wanting a baby so bad to resort to something that we know is wrong yet still going ahead and doing it anyway. It’s heartbreaking.

 

[vera_dicere]

Have you considered embryo adoption?

It would avoid the many sins and alarm bells you discussed and would actually save embryos who are destined to be destoryed or studied.

 

[Rence]

Have you considered embryo adoption?

It would avoid the many sins and alarm bells you discussed and would actually save embryos who are destined to be destoryed or studied.

But isn’t that forbidden by the Vatican? I thought it was…

 

[SophiaLector]

God bless you for sharing your story and my sincere condolences on the passing of your children. I have a good friend (non-Catholic) who’s been through this and the outcome is just horrific. I think that doctors who perform IVF as their “bread and butter” also have an obligation to let prospective patients know that the mortality rate is shockingly high. There are some people who have been unsuccessfully trying IVF for years. The number of babies lost shadows the rates of abortion in many cases.

We are Catholic. We have to stand for life.

I hope you are considering a regular adoption and I hope your home is full of children soon!

Have you considered embryo adoption?

It would avoid the many sins and alarm bells you discussed and would actually save embryos who are destined to be destoryed or studied.

I have another friend who is involved in embryo adoption – she just had a transfer today, actually. While it seems like a better option than traditional IVF, I can tell you the mortality rate is just as high, if not higher, and the “alarm bells” are just as loud. The children are Fed-Ex’ed to the clinic; artificial hormones, steroids and antibiotics are administered to the mother; the children are thawed; and an incision is made in the mother’s womb where the babies will be implanted by a doctor. And, in the case of my dear friend, the babies typically do not make it. She and her husband adopted 8 embryo babies and so far 6 have died. These last two are their only remaining hope. They plan to adopt should this transfer not suceed (they are not Catholic).

I know people who have suffered with infertility and miscarriage but I know very few who have lost 6 or 8 babies naturally. And I can think of no case where someone adopted a child only to have them die within days of that adoption. When a couple adopts a living child they get that child. And they support adoption – not abortion or IVF – in the process.

In a perfect scenario, IVF would be outlawed and these abandoned embryos – CHILDREN – would be adopted and carried to term by parents who love them. But unfortunately adopting embryos is still neither unitive nor, in many cases procreative, and it supports the very thing that made these children orphans in the first place.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t love and support my friend or her children. I hope they live and thrive and make their parents the happiest people on earth. And I have no answer for what should be done with the remaining orphaned embryos. That’s beyond my pay grade.

 

[SophiaLector]

No, the Church has not made a ruling on embryo adoption yet. But a verdict is forthcoming and the general feel is that it will be deemed morally wrong.

 

[vera_dicere]

But isn’t that forbidden by the Vatican? I thought it was…

Someone already made comment that a verdict was pending. But I’d be very surprised if they said it was morally wrong.

The reality is either the embryo is adopted by a loving set of parents or the embryo is destoryed or used in research which is murder.

Yes, the chances of an embryo implanting in the adopting mother’s uterus are low but at least its given a natural chance at life. Mind you, people who have adopted embryos, tend to be functionally normally reproductively and have higher rates of success.

 

[Seatuck]

Someone already made comment that a verdict was pending. But I’d be very surprised if they said it was morally wrong.

The reality is either the embryo is adopted by a loving set of parents or the embryo is destoryed or used in research which is murder.

Yes, the chances of an embryo implanting in the adopting mother’s uterus are low but at least its given a natural chance at life. Mind you, people who have adopted embryos, tend to be functionally normally reproductively and have higher rates of success.

From Dignitas Personae

1. With regard to the large number of frozen embryos already in existence the question
   becomes: what to do with them? Some of those who pose this question do not grasp its ethical
   nature, motivated as they are by laws in some countries that require cryopreservation centers to
   empty their storage tanks periodically. Others, however, are aware that a grave injustice has
   been perpetrated and wonder how best to respond to the duty of resolving it.
   Proposals to use these embryos for research or for the treatment of disease are obviously
   unacceptable because they treat the embryos as mere “biological material” and result in their
   destruction. The proposal to thaw such embryos without reactivating them and use them for
   research, as if they were normal cadavers, is also unacceptable.37
   The proposal that these embryos could be put at the disposal of infertile couples as a
   treatment for infertility is not ethically acceptable for the same reasons which make artificial
   heterologous procreation illicit as well as any form of surrogate motherhood;38 this practice
   would also lead to other problems of a medical, psychological and legal nature.
   It has also been proposed, solely in order to allow human beings to be born who are
   otherwise condemned to destruction, that there could be a form of “prenatal adoption”. This
   proposal, praiseworthy with regard to the intention of respecting and defending human life,
   presents however various problems not dissimilar to those mentioned above.
   All things considered, it needs to be recognized that the thousands of abandoned
   embryos represent a situation of injustice which in fact cannot be resolved. Therefore John
   Paul II made an “appeal to the conscience of the world’s scientific authorities and in particular
   to doctors, that the production of human embryos be halted, taking into account that there
   seems to be no morally licit solution regarding the human destiny of the thousands and
   thousands of ‘frozen’ embryos which are and remain the subjects of essential rights and should
   therefore be protected by law as human persons”.39

The magesterium seems to be leaning toward not allowing it. But we shall see.

 

[Silyosha]

Thank you for sharing your story on this difficult topic. God bless you.
Silyosha

 

[Lauds]

One size does not fit all, My Nephew & his wife could not conceive naturally. They tried & tried, finally they had IVF, which gave them twins, the twins are beautiful & My Nephew & his wife are just thrilled over having these Children. They are thrilled every day of their life seeing there miracle children. IVF or not, they are still Children of God

 

[vera_dicere]

From Dignitas Personae

The magesterium seems to be leaning toward not allowing it. But we shall see.

With the comment regarding the adoption of these embryos to infertile couples, I was actually always thinking along the lines of adopting these embryos to parents with no physical issues - rather viewing it as just another form of adoption.

I mean, the same psychological effects and “orphaning” of these embryos by adoption, how is it any different than traditional adoption?

I’m adopted. And beleive you me, I’m glad as cuss that I wasn’t torn to shreds and sucked down a tube (of course if I was I wouldn’t be here to complain about it). I would imagine the parents of an child adopted as an embryo would simply explain to said child the method of their adoption.

But honestly, I just don’t feel comfortable about tens of thousands of discarded embryos going to waste because the Catholic church might think its not moral. Using them for research is just twisted, but the only other option is to just switch off the fridge’s power and let these children die naturally - but considering they were created through unnatural means, are we justified to be apathetic towards them?

Its a cuss of a moral head scratcher.

 

[vera_dicere]

One size does not fit all, My Nephew & his wife could not conceive naturally. They tried & tried, finally they had IVF, which gave them twins, the twins are beautiful & My Nephew & his wife are just thrilled over having these Children. They are thrilled every day of their life seeing there miracle children. IVF or not, they are still Children of God

How many rounds of IVF did they have?

The most tragic IVF story I heard of, my uncle’s sister in law couldn’t get pregnant. She used IVF. The govt. here pays for two rounds of IVF then the rest is up to the couple to fund. They had about five goes, chewing through over 100 embryos, either through ones that didn’t implant and ones that were “defective” and couldn’t be implanted. Finally, she got pregnant and they discovered that there were five embryos that had implanted. they only wanted one child, so they underwent a “reduction”, they had three of the children killed. Three days later, she miscarried the remaining two. So, back to the IVF drawing board, they had two more rounds and then she fell pregnant again with four embryos successfully implanting, they again didn’t want four children, so reduced three of them. Again, she miscarried but her body didn’t pass all of the placenta she developed a huge infection and ended up needing an emergency hysterectomy.

She and her husband, along with those scientists and doctors are responsible for the deaths of over 100 children. Then when God gave them, or apathetically allowed them to have nine children, they threw them back in His face because they didn’t get the number they wanted. -_-’ Now they get none.

IVF is just one great big melting pot of sin. Its best to just avoid it. And it’d be great if we could ban it.

Its tragic that some people can’t fall pregnant or have children naturally, and that is their cross to bear, a heavy cross, but that’s why we have Jesus, to offload that weight on Him. Not to go to scientists and spit in God’s face.

 

[Lauds]

How many rounds of IVF did they have?

The most tragic IVF story I heard of, my uncle’s sister in law couldn’t get pregnant. She used IVF. The govt. here pays for two rounds of IVF then the rest is up to the couple to fund. They had about five goes, chewing through over 100 embryos, either through ones that didn’t implant and ones that were “defective” and couldn’t be implanted. Finally, she got pregnant and they discovered that there were five embryos that had implanted. they only wanted one child, so they underwent a “reduction”, they had three of the children killed. Three days later, she miscarried the remaining two. So, back to the IVF drawing board, they had two more rounds and then she fell pregnant again with four embryos successfully implanting, they again didn’t want four children, so reduced three of them. Again, she miscarried but her body didn’t pass all of the placenta she developed a huge infection and ended up needing an emergency hysterectomy.

She and her husband, along with those scientists and doctors are responsible for the deaths of over 100 children. Then when God gave them, or apathetically allowed them to have nine children, they threw them back in His face because they didn’t get the number they wanted. -_-’ Now they get none.

IVF is just one great big melting pot of sin. Its best to just avoid it. And it’d be great if we could ban it.

Its tragic that some people can’t fall pregnant or have children naturally, and that is their cross to bear, a heavy cross, but that’s why we have Jesus, to offload that weight on Him. Not to go to scientists and spit in God’s face.

For them it worked out quickly, wife had no after effects either, thats why I said, one size dont fit all, I am sure they did not do the IVF to spit in Gods face, many many Catholics spit in God`s face daily & not from doing IVF