My faith is wavering- please help! Doubting Jesus!

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JenniferB said:
The reason I say this is because I don’t feel that people of other religions are not “saved” in the Christian way. Because I believe that God is **all encompassing love **and compassion, I don’t believe that He would send any loving and moral person to Hell because they happened to be born in India and believe in someone named Ganesh. However He is able to save them (giving them a chance to recieve Him at Heaven’s Gate, dismissing their earthly beliefs because of thier moral character, etc) I believe that if He can, He will.
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Actually, what you’ve expressed here does not sound much different from the Catholic Church’s teaching on Baptism by Desire:

“Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity. (CCC #1260)
JenniferB said:
At the same time, since I believe in an all loving and all compassionate God, I don’t believe He will turn His back to any of His children that may not have followed Jesus. What happens to the people before Jesus was born? Are they all condemned to Hell because God made them be born before Christ? I don’t believe so.
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The Catholic Church has never taught otherwise. Do you actually think that the Catholic Church believes that Moses, Elijah, Abraham, Sarah, Ruth, etc. are in hell because they lived before the birth of Christ? Nothing is further from the truth. In the Creeds of the Church we state that after Jesus died he descended to the dead. This means that he was revealed to the righteous people of the past (they were in a kind of limbo called “the Bosom of Abraham”; Jesus describes it in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus) and they were given the chance to accept him as their Messiah (and therefore were permitted to enter heaven).

Here is an ancient Holy Saturday homily in which the author envisions what this must have looked like. So the Catholic Church has always believed in the salvation of the righteous who lived prior to the birth of Christ.
 
EricFilmer said:
Actually, what you’ve expressed here does not sound much different from the Catholic Church’s teaching on Baptism by Desire:

“Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity. (CCC #1260)

The Catholic Church has never taught otherwise. Do you actually think that the Catholic Church believes that Moses, Elijah, Abraham, Sarah, Ruth, etc. are in hell because they lived before the birth of Christ? Nothing is further from the truth. In the Creeds of the Church we state that after Jesus died he descended to the dead. This means that he was revealed to the righteous people of the past (they were in a kind of limbo called “the Bosom of Abraham”; Jesus describes it in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus) and they were given the chance to accept him as their Messiah (and therefore were permitted to enter heaven).

Here is an ancient Holy Saturday homily in which the author envisions what this must have looked like. So the Catholic Church has always believed in the salvation of the righteous who lived prior to the birth of Christ.
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Wow. Thank you so much for this information. I have a Case for Christ on my Kindle and am hoping it is something readable so that I can actually follow it instead of drowing in a bunch of religious words.

I have come to make peace with God loving all of His creation (including those before Christ and those that are unable to hear of God) but because of this, I am so confused on the divinty of Jesus still. If God saved those before Christ and those that are unable to hear His message, why have a Christ figure at all? Doesn’t God dwell in all of us if we chose to have a relationship with Him? If that is the case, aren’t we His Sons and Daughters too? Wont I be ok if I just pray straight to God instead of Jesus? And most importantly, if God is all powerful and can do what He wants, why have a Jesus martyr in the first place? Couldn’t He have somehow given us wisdom of Salvation without sending someone to die for our sins?
 
JenniferB said:
Wow. Thank you so much for this information. I have a Case for Christ on my Kindle and am hoping it is something readable so that I can actually follow it instead of drowing in a bunch of religious words.

I have come to make peace with God loving all of His creation (including those before Christ and those that are unable to hear of God) but because of this, I am so confused on the divinty of Jesus still. If God saved those before Christ and those that are unable to hear His message, why have a Christ figure at all? Doesn’t God dwell in all of us if we chose to have a relationship with Him? If that is the case, aren’t we His Sons and Daughters too? Wont I be ok if I just pray straight to God instead of Jesus? And most importantly, if God is all powerful and can do what He wants, why have a Jesus martyr in the first place? Couldn’t He have somehow given us wisdom of Salvation without sending someone to die for our sins?
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God could have saved us by a simple “Fiat”, but He chose to come as Man through Mary’s “Fiat” and so to enter into death to put an end to death and man’s separation from the Father. Now because of Him we can truly say “death, where is thy sting?” for Christ has conquered death for us as one of us. A man who isn’t also God could noy have done that, for God alone is worthy to atone for the sins against Himself.
 
I was obsessed by Love Wins when it came out as I was dealing with recent deaths in the family. As all the evangelicals were calling him a heretic I found it interesting that Catholics by and large were silent. I was just starting to feel a tug toward Catholicism as a lifelong Methodist and I was interested to see how the catechism did not seem too far off from Love Wins in some ways. However what also struck me as someone more on the conservative Evangelical end of the Methodist spectrum how I had misjudged what I thought the Catholic Church said and was very pleasantly surprised. Rob Bell who really did not seem to have anything backing him up and seemed to be on to something by accident helped lead me to where I could find the truth with Sciptural and Church authority and it has been very comforting for me in dealing with the deaths of loved ones.

Another thought I have is that when I am doubting something about Jesus or what God is asking me to do and what I think the Bible is saying or even as a Methodist trying to decide if I really was going to be Catholic now I will let Hm know everything that I am not sure of and ask questions. As it says in James, if you are lacking wisdom, ask for it. I lack wisdom as lot and I am one of God’s denser children and I really do get amazing answers when I ask the questions but you have to be open to hear the answers. Anyway, doubting and not always liking what God has to say and even being angry with God come with the territory- just read the Psalms. God wants to hear those questions that you have when you spend time with Him.

Blessings,

Val
 
JenniferB said:
Wow. Thank you so much for this information.
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You are very welcome.
I have a Case for Christ on my Kindle and am hoping it is something readable so that I can actually follow it instead of drowing in a bunch of religious words.
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If you are referring to The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, it is, indeed, a very readable book, and I thought it was pretty good. I also recommend his other books, The Case for Faith and The Case for a Creator.
JenniferB said:
I have come to make peace with God loving all of His creation (including those before Christ and those that are unable to hear of God) but because of this, I am so confused on the divinty of Jesus still. If God saved those before Christ and those that are unable to hear His message, why have a Christ figure at all?
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And most importantly, if God is all powerful and can do what He wants, why have a Jesus martyr in the first place? Couldn’t He have somehow given us wisdom of Salvation without sending someone to die for our sins?
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Prior to the death of Christ, righteous people were not yet saved. They enjoyed a very pleasant existence (another name for the Bosom of Abraham was “paradise”) but this still had its limits. It was not heaven, and it did not include the Beatific Vision which all of humanity inherently longs for. It was not until Christ descended to the dead and revealed himself to them that they could accept the gift of salvation he offers. This allowed the righteous to leave the Bosom of Abraham and enter heaven. At that point, the Bosom of Abraham was presumably closed down, having served its purpose (after all, obviously Abraham wouldn’t be hanging around there anymore, and he took his bosom with him).

We need a Christ figure because we basically need an Adam figure. Or rather than say “need” perhaps I should say that God considered sending a Christ figure very fitting in terms of what has happened in human history. Basically, God sent his Son to undo the damage caused by Adam. Adam was the first human and therefore the representative of the entire human race. He was given the gifts of immortality, perfect health, peace, and pleasant existence. Such gifts were also meant to be our inheritance.

Adam was also given the choice to either obey or disobey God. God told him that disobedience would result in death. This may sound harsh, but we must remember that sin is a rejection of God, and God is life itself. The only realistic consequence of the rejection of life itself is the loss of life. In its most extreme case, this means death. This is why the Bible teaches us that the wages of sin is death.

We must also keep in mind that our relationship with God is a relationship of love. True love demands that the beloved be free to accept or reject the lover. After all, love which is forced upon another is not true love. Moreover, the beloved must have the freedom to totally reject the lover, to sever the relationship completely. Adam was created to be in a loving relationship with God, and Adam was given the freedom to not only reject God, but to do so completely. The action by which he could do this was in eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, which symbolized the sin of pride (the desire to be like God without God) and lack of trust in God (belief that God was a liar and that he was not truly looking out for their best interests). When Adam & Eve sinned, they completely rejected God which meant that they completely rejected life itself, and death entered the universe. They lost the gifts of immortality, perfect health, peace and pleasant existence, and therefore “blew our inheritance” as well. Humanity lost the bliss of the Garden of Eden and ended up in this broken world of ours.

(Continued in my next post)
 
(Continued…)

But God in his love and mercy sent his Son to be the “Second Adam” (or the “New Adam”). Being human, Jesus is one of us and can rightly be considered our representative. Because of sin, we have all rejected God (and life) and therefore owe the wages of sin: death. But being our representative, Jesus is able to pay that debt on our behalf, and he freely chose to die for our sins. Moreover, because Jesus is God, his sacrifice is perfect, and therefore it has the power to absolve all sin, throughout all time.

Remember the gospel accounts of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane? Jesus said to the Father, “Your will be done, not mine.” Compare this to Adam whose actions basically said to God, “My will be done, not yours!” So the Old Adam stood in a garden and expressed disobedience to the Father, whereas the New Adam knelt in a garden and expressed obedience to the Father. The obedience of the New Adam fixes the mess created by the disobedience of the Old Adam. This is an example of what is called recapitulation. The garden imagery between the Old Adam and the New Adam comes up again in the Gospel of John when Mary Magdalene first saw the resurrected Christ and initially mistook him for “the gardener.” John in particular makes a lot of parallels between his account of Jesus and the beginnings of the Book of Genesis.

In terms of our inheritance, whereas the Old Adam “blew our inheritance” (and we lost the gift of immortality and life in the Garden of Eden) the New Adam restores it. For those who accept the gift of salvation won for us by Jesus, death is not the end, but a transition into eternal life. And being adopted sons and daughters of the Father, our inheritance is no longer merely the bliss of the Garden of Eden, but the very Kingdom of Heaven. We are allowed to partake of the Tree of Life that was denied Adam & Eve after they sinned. And the Tree of Life is actually Christ himself, and it is our participation in his life and love that allows us to eat of this fruit.

(And here is an interesting side note. In the Garden of Eden, Eve, an immaculately conceived virgin, was the bearer of the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which became the fruit of death. Mary is the New Eve, also an immaculately conceived virgin, who brings us the fruit of the Tree of Life, Jesus.)

Plus, in dying for our sins, Jesus not only paid the wages of sin on our behalf, but showed us that he was willing to die for us, which he, himself, taught was the greatest act of love. So when we wonder how much does Jesus love us, and how valuable we are in the eyes of God, we need only to look at a crucifix – we are worth the very blood of God himself.

And we should also consider that the crucifixion of Christ was the worst possible crime imaginable – deicide: the murder of God (Jesus is God but in his human nature he can, and did, experience death). But from the greatest possible crime, deicide, God rendered the greatest possible gift – the power of salvation for all humankind. So in the death and resurrection of Christ we see that God has the power to render the greatest of all things from the worst of all things, and therefore he can render goodness from all the various bad things we have to endure in life.

(Continued in my next post)
 
(Continued…)
Doesn’t God dwell in all of us if we chose to have a relationship with Him?
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I believe this to be so.
If that is the case, aren’t we His Sons and Daughters too?
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Generally speaking we tend to think of all of humanity as being children of God, because he created all of us and reveals himself as a Father. But theologically speaking, and technically speaking, this is not true. We are all creatures of the Creator, but not automatically children of the Father. I say this because there is (as the Bible and the Creed states) only one begotten child of God, and that is Jesus the Son. According to the New Testament, we become brothers and sisters of Jesus through the power of baptism. And because we are brothers and sisters of Jesus, his Father becomes our Father as well. We become adopted children of the Father.
Wont I be ok if I just pray straight to God instead of Jesus?
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If you pray straight to God you are praying to Jesus, as well as to the Father and the Holy Spirit. I think you meant to say “pray straight to the Father instead of Jesus.” We can pray straight to any of the Divine Persons we want, but we have to examine the rationale behind it. It seems that you want to pray straight to the Father and not Jesus because you have misgivings about Jesus’ divinity. But please keep in mind these passages from the Bible:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
I and the Father are one." (John 10:27-30, RSV)

“Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father’s house are many rooms;
if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
And you know the way where I am going.”
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?”
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him.”
Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.”
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father’?
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. (John 14:1-11, RSV)

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. (1Tim 2:5-6, RSV)

And let me conclude by pointing out that, in terms of the gift of salvation, God could have done things in different ways, but he chose to become one of us and to die for us. Lots of people believe that God is present to us, and wants to be close to us, but the question is, “How far is God willing to go?” We Christians can point to the manger in a nativity set and say, “That is how far he is willing to go”. He was born of a human woman and therefore perfectly united divinity and humanity in his very being.” Lots of people believe that God loves us, but the question is, “How far is God willing to go in order to love us?” We Christians can point to a crucifix and say “That is how far he is willing to go!”
 
Eric: thank you so much for your thought out and well organized response. It is with great apprehension that I mention to you now that I am not a believer in a literal bible. To me, the Adam and Eve story is just that- a story. I believe in evolution and attribute evolution to me knowing for a fact that ther IS a God. In my eyes, a 7 day creation story somehow weakens to almighty power of God, who set in most the sequence of events that lead to the most perfect machine of the human body. Furthermore, I have problems with the Bible in that some books were kept out and/or included because of personal agendas during the Council of Nicaea.

With all that being said, I don’t like to take evidence or facts from the Bible because I do not believe it is without error, contradictions or personal agenda. How sad is it to feel like I need more proof than the Bible, but I can say honestly that I do
 
JenniferB said:
Eric: thank you so much for your thought out and well organized response. It is with great apprehension that I mention to you now that I am not a believer in a literal bible. To me, the Adam and Eve story is just that- a story. I believe in evolution and attribute evolution to me knowing for a fact that ther IS a God. In my eyes, a 7 day creation story somehow weakens to almighty power of God, who set in most the sequence of events that lead to the most perfect machine of the human body. Furthermore, I have problems with the Bible in that some books were kept out and/or included because of personal agendas during the Council of Nicaea.

With all that being said, I don’t like to take evidence or facts from the Bible because I do not believe it is without error, contradictions or personal agenda. How sad is it to feel like I need more proof than the Bible, but I can say honestly that I do
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Idk that there’s any proof of Jesus. It could be just another fable like the rest of the bible for all I know. If you want to believe in Jesus you’ll prob have to just go on blind faith.
 
Frog: That is what I’m hoping to regain- my blind and unwavering faith. 🙂
 
BlueFrog said:
uhm, what?
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Ha! Exactly! It’s hard to have a conversation with a Bible literalist or someone who believes the Bible is inerrant. Every point they make refers to a “truth” in the Bible. When you are doubting the validity of some parts of the Bible (not all!) It can be hard to swallow.

I feel I need more. Why doesn’t God speak to us anymore like he did in the Biblical times? I feel we need to hear His voice more than ever right now.
 
BlueFrog said:
uhm, what?
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Jonah was down in the sea (in the gut of a whale) for three days. When he emerged alive, the people repented.

Our LORD went into the darkness of death for three days, far more final than the gut of a whale; in fact, finally final. Yet HE emerged alive.

What greater sign could there possibly be!!!

ICXC NIKA
 
I dont know if someone has said this yet.

I kinda am in the same boat. God has made himself real to me, but doubt persists for no good reason.

I enjoy reading about the historical Jesus because it reinforces my faith. Through studying the historical Jesus you can conclude his divinity. You must consider this; Jesus was alive, then he was crucified, and killed.

Then something happened to his body. No one knows where it went. Except for some reason the apostles came to believe that he rose from the dead, and not only that but that he was physically with them again after the resurrection.

I think about Thomas (doubting Thomas, who I relate to the most), and how even though he doubted before seeing it for himself, he went off to India to teach that he walked with Jesus, and then was with Jesus after he had resurrected. Not only that but he was martyred for his beliefs.

So I think what separates Jesus from Mohammed or other spiritual leaders is the Ressurection, aka the sign of Jonah. Once he came back to life, we have to hold him at the very least more than a good teacher.
 
Jcnava15 said:
I dont know if someone has said this yet.

I kinda am in the same boat. God has made himself real to me, but doubt persists for no good reason.

I enjoy reading about the historical Jesus because it reinforces my faith. Through studying the historical Jesus you can conclude his divinity. You must consider this; Jesus was alive, then he was crucified, and killed.

Then something happened to his body. No one knows where it went. Except for some reason the apostles came to believe that he rose from the dead, and not only that but that he was physically with them again after the resurrection.

I think about Thomas (doubting Thomas, who I relate to the most), and how even though he doubted before seeing it for himself, he went off to India to teach that he walked with Jesus, and then was with Jesus after he had resurrected. Not only that but he was martyred for his beliefs.

So I think what separates Jesus from Mohammed or other spiritual leaders is the Ressurection, aka the sign of Jonah. Once he came back to life, we have to hold him at the very least more than a good teacher.
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THANK YOU so much for writing this and putting it in these terms. I can definitely see how studying the historical Jesus would help strengthen my faith in Him. While I never doubted His extistence (or God’s), it is hard to come to terms with His divinity when there are other religious teachers out there.

I must make peace with the fact that I will never be a “you’re must be a ____ or you will go to Hell” kind of Christian. As a matter of fact, I don’t want to be. But in order to be in good standing with my faith, I will just have to not think about it. Period. Thinking about it makes me doubt the goodness and love of the Church.

Thank you everyone for your kind responses. I continue to pray daily that I find peace in Jesus and continue to strengthen my faith in a merciful and ever-loving Father God.
 
You should learn about your faith.

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

You can download it using Win Website Downloader

Read the Diary of St. Faustina Kowalska - Divine Mercy in my Soul (it is available online and for free)
saintsworks.net/books/St.%20Faustina%20Kowalska%20-%20Diary.pdf

Read other saints books, to help your faith, you can find it for free here, along with the recommendations
saintsbookscatechisms.blogspot.com/

I have made a website to help fellow catholics
everycatholicblog.blogspot.com/

It contains free resources, such as saints books, catholic music, sacred music, all for free to learn about the faith, to make you enthusiastic about it. Catholicism is fun and fulfilling.

Listen to Mother Angelica
youtube.com/results?search_query=mother+angelica&aq=f

She is very witty and will bring you back on track about your faith. Listening to her will bring deep peace and joy to your heart, plus she can make you laugh. She will teach you about the church and about Jesus. Not historically, but how Jesus loves each and everyone of us, personally, as if no one else existed. He loves us personally. Person to person basis. You are precious to his heart

You will feel this when you listen to her talk. You can download the videos on youtube using atube catcher

She has hundreds of free podcasts too
motherangelicalive.blogspot.com/

But I suggest you to watch the videos.

Pray the rosary and the divine mercy chaplet three times a day, morning, noon, and night. The divine mercy chaplet only takes 5 minutes each time it is said, and Jesus promised great graces to those who said it. He said that even the most hardened sinners, if he said the divine mercy chaplet just once, he will obtain a peaceful and happy death
(instructions)

It is prayed on a regular rosary.

The only way to strengthen your faith is through prayer. Pray without ceasing, as St. Paul exhorts us.

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Have the divine mercy and sacred heart image venerated in your room

Go to confession frequently, have regular confessors (can be as many as 4). Go to confession weekly, or every fortnight, or monthly. Be careful in choosing your confessor. Choose one who is holy and lead a good life. Bad confessor can lead you astray. Do not lightly change your confessor, unless there are something seriously wrong with him.

May the merciful Jesus bless you, and grant you salvation 🙂
 
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