My Fathers "medicinal" drinking

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Wollie

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Ok,
so my father had surgery about 6 years ago to fuse herniated disks in his spine. The operation was a success but left him with lots of scar tissue. That scar tissue is now pinching nerves and has given him a great deal of pain. For a while he was on Oxycotton, Methadone and other very very strong pain killers. His pain has subsided a little and he no longer takes these kind of drugs. What he does now is drink… a lot. He has several drinks when ever the pain is bad and he wants to go to sleep. I ask him about it and he says that nothing affects the pain the same way alcohol does.

so is it sinful for someone to drink in order to ease pain?
(trust my it is a lot of pain… he can’t sleep sometimes… i’ve seen him shake)
 
I have a question. When he drinks does he get drunk? If so, this is a sin, as far as I know. If he doesn’t get drunk, I would imagine that it’s okay. I also have a hard time believing that simple liquor cures pain better than prescription drugs. Of course, in either case, you run the risk of dependency. (Your dad could become dependent on either the oxycontin or the alcohol. As his son, you may want to watch for that.) Has the doctor recommended physical therapy? That may help as well. Even if it’s just a walk around the neighborhood. I don’t know much about severe pain management, so I can only offer a few suggestions. I’m sorry you both are going through such a hard time. I will pray on your behalf that your dad’s suffering will help some poor souls in Purgatory. I hope you find a solution that works for you soon.

God bless you

Tracy
 
He does not want to be on drugs… Coming off of Oxycotton is like coming off of Heroine. You lie there and shake for three or four days. You don’t eat, you don’t sleep. He does physical therapy and it is the reason he doesn’t need drugs anymore. He doesn’t always get drunk. Sometimes it hard to tell though… I have seen him very drunk. I tell him to be careful, but he is in pain so what can i really say?

alcohol is just a drug right?
if he says it helps ease his pain is it still sinful?
 
Alcohol is a drug, yes. It’s a central nervous system depressant, as are opiates like oxycodone and heroin, but the narcotics are by far the better painkillers. The problem is that opiates and opioids are about the easiest thing in the world to develop a physical dependence on. Someone who’s been drinking every day for at least several months might get delirium tremens upon stopping suddenly, but an opiate/opioid user will get some nasty withdrawal symptoms when he or she stops after only a few days of steady use (on the plus side, opiate withdrawal generally won’t kill you like delirium tremens does, although you kinda wish it did).

I can definitely understand your father not wanting to depend on narcotics for pain relief. Alcohol can still have side effects, both for the user and for others – I’d be willing to bet that over the entirety of human history, mean drunks have caused more property damage, killed more people, and broken more families than junkies – but if he can avoid those and use it in moderation, I don’t see any reason to stop him. I would advise checking with a doctor though.

And don’t let him mix the two! Alcohol potentiates the depressant effects of opiates and derivatives, and that way lies overdose.
 
He really needs to see a pain management specialist. There are drugs that are not as powerful or as addictive as oxycontin. Sometime even something like extra strength Tylenol can handle pain.Totally non-addictive, but dangerous to be drinking alcohol along with it. That overloads and can damage the liver. Alcohol can also be addictive so I don’t quite understand the concern about addiction with drugs. The other point I would make with respect to addiction to a pain killer drug. If the pain is never going to go away why would one have to go through withdrawal. At minimum I would recommend the pain management specialist.
 
rwoehmke said:
He really needs to see a pain management specialist. There are drugs that are not as powerful or as addictive as oxycontin. Sometime even something like extra strength Tylenol can handle pain.
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I get the impression that treating Wollie’s father with over-the-counter tylenol would be like trying to saw plywood with a noodle. We’re not talking about a headache here.
Alcohol can also be addictive so I don’t quite understand the concern about addiction with drugs.
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As addictive as alcohol is, it’s far easier to become addicted to narcotics.
The other point I would make with respect to addiction to a pain killer drug. If the pain is never going to go away why would one have to go through withdrawal.
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If you fly across the country and forget your pills, life is going to suck for the next few days at a minimum. Or if you forget to refill the scrip, misplace the bottle, or worst of all, run out of cash. Withdrawal symptoms include horrible pain, diarrhea, upset stomach, furious sneezing, and that’s just the start. It’s like the flu from hell.

Withdrawal occurs because the body replaces its natural flow of endorphins – pain-killing compounds – with the narcotics you’re feeding it. Opiates and opioids mimic the structure and function of endorphins exactly, which is why they’re the most effective painkillers around (and why they’re so frequently abused). If that stream of narcotics dries up, it takes the body a while to restart endorphin production – and until it does, you’re stuck.

I do agree with you though, he needs to see a specialist for this, and make it clear that he doesn’t want narcotics.
 
rwoehmke said:
He really needs to see a pain management specialist. There are drugs that are not as powerful or as addictive as oxycontin. Sometime even something like extra strength Tylenol can handle pain.Totally non-addictive, but dangerous to be drinking alcohol along with it. That overloads and can damage the liver. Alcohol can also be addictive so I don’t quite understand the concern about addiction with drugs. The other point I would make with respect to addiction to a pain killer drug. If the pain is never going to go away why would one have to go through withdrawal. At minimum I would recommend the pain management specialist.
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There are also other types of things that doctors can do for pain management. My mother has gotten nerve block injections in her back. They provide relief of pain for about a year and do not involve any pills. She does not have to take narcotics, NSAIDS, Tylenol or aspirin.
 
Three months ago I lost a friend that had a very similar problem and at the end he could not deal with the pain anymore. No drugs would work with him (Viacodin, opiate patches etc.).

If your father is in the same situation, I can tell you that he drinks to alleviate the pain for real and not for the buzz. Drinking is not illegal so I would say that what he is doing is not a sin. There will be side effects to his self medicating but morphine and other drugs have major side effects if used in the long term.

I would encourage him to see specialist for pain management but after having taken care of this friend of mine I do not have too much trust in them. Spinal injections might help but it depends on the location of the fused vertebrae. The enzymes will destroy some of the scarred tissue but the effect can be close to nothing.

Depression is a major problem with this kind of chronic pain and alcohol is a depressant so it might worsen the person mental state. Depression can make the person more aware of the pain (or the anticipation of pain) thus lowering the quality of life. Counseling and a support system might be of help.
 
Hm, yeah…well okay, alcohol really is a pretty good painkiller, but it’s far too random and interactive to be a good idea. In fact it’s a terrible idea - oxycodone and the other opiates are a far better way to go, and as Mirdath said, do NOT mix them with alcohol. The dose is controlled and far more predictable in effect, both good and bad. (Nerveblock therapy has its own share of terrible problems, and is certainly not viable therapy in all cases – medicine is to keep one functioning, and courting paralysis…well, is courting addiction better or worse, especially if it does not guarantee any relief from pain? some cases, it just isn’t helpful).

Yeah, oxycodone is tough stuff, but methadone is tougher, at least in terms of withdrawal (but, it’s longlasting, effective, and leaves the patient lucid…I don’t like methadone, but it is more of a blessing than a curse, medically, by far). On the other hand, if chronic severe pain is the problem like it may well be here, opiates become far less addictive, since they get utilized very quickly to stem the onslaught of insupportable pain, and one’s own neurochemistry is being assisted rather than usurped. And there are certainly other medications on the market, depending on what the patient can tolerate. Maybe scaling down to hydrocodone or similar would be worth a try, or maybe plain old morphine (not as scary as it sounds, especially orally), or perhaps meperidine or one of the other quasiopiods (effective, but they are often VERY potentiated by alcohol, so it might be wiser to go to those after the patient is stabilized).

Anyway, it sounds like he very much needs to speak with a physician, and one who is willing to take his pain seriously (though many doctors are cowed by the current draconian regulations…made and enforced by people who have no idea what they are doing). A course of proper pain management is definitely the way to go – a good friend of mine, though disabled and very poor, finally got into one of these programs, and suddenly has had no problems whatsoever turning his life around, after years of misery and, yes, crime just to stay alive.
 
my father has been going though this for six years.
he has been through countless doctors. he has chosen alcohol and working out to be the best treatment.

so my question is: is drinking/being drunk more sinful than being prescribed prescription drugs? or is it the same?
 
Oh, in such cases, I would think it’s more a matter of optimizing functionality. I am no Catholic, nor a theist, but I do know quite a lot about medicine, bioresearch, and also being a patient (including long-tern pain and the hazards and benefits of relief).

Sinfulness? Does your religion truly demand more than flesh can bear? I thought that is what your Christ died for, yes? Your father is struggling now, and needs the best care possible, as do we all throughout our lives. But he is hurting, so I suggest you find the best balm you can. I do not understand why some doctors have decided to treat pain medication as if it were the last glass of water in a Looney Toons desert and as one with a chronically ill parent (and with ruptured disc/sciatica myself), I have seen terrible denials.

But pain management centers are a good way to go – they have heard it all, and a little drinking (even a LOT of drinking) is the least of it. They truly want to help people live. And not just technically…they really do try to help people function to their very best, yet with a kind eye to their failings. Not every clinic is perfect, but that is what they mean to do.

In the mean time, I suggest you do not judge your father too harshly. One day, your body too will fail, and while I hope you never suffer, we know how likely suffering is, ie very. Be kindly, and wise if you can be, since in extremis, the mind can become very strange. But mostly, be kind.

If my loved ones need anything when they are in agony, I will do that thing for them. It’s not a problem – it is a privilege. A shot of vodka? Yes I can do that. You think another few ml of morphine and you can walk to the livingroom? Why yes, that dignity is yours, and I apologize for having to help at all. It’s no sin in my eyes, and I’m so happy to be with you. 🙂

edit - whoops, this was from Nepenthe. Thought I’d logged back on and all, please forgive me.
 
Wollie said:
my father has been going though this for six years.
he has been through countless doctors. he has chosen alcohol and working out to be the best treatment.

so my question is: is drinking/being drunk more sinful than being prescribed prescription drugs? or is it the same?
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Sin is defined by intent, gravity of the matter, and knowledge of the gravity. I would say that in this case if it is a sin probably it is just a venial sin. I am not a priest and what I am telling you is based only poorly formed conscience. I think that you should talk to a priest to better understand how sinful the act is. I still strongly encourage you to keep seeking help also with pain control management and in the field of mental health. Alcohol is a depressant, and personally I do not think that it is the best solution for chronic pain control.
 
Mirdath said:
Your father is struggling now, and needs the best care possible, as do we all throughout our lives. But he is hurting, so I suggest you find the best balm you can. I do not understand why some doctors have decided to treat pain medication as if it were the last glass of water in a Looney Toons desert and as one with a chronically ill parent (and with ruptured disc/sciatica myself), I have seen terrible denials.
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I am afraid that professional ethics comes after money making. I have seen that in the field of pain management when the doctor was never present but only a nurse would come out to prescribe medications and even discuss possible surgeries.:mad:
 
Cristiano said:
Alcohol is a depressant, and personally I do not think that it is the best solution for chronic pain control.
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Depressant in the medicinal sense does not mean it makes you feel bad – it means it slows you down and diminishes certain functions (in this case, central nervous system activity). It’s the opposite of a stimulant.
I am afraid that professional ethics comes after money making. I have seen that in the field of pain management when the doctor was never present but only a nurse would come out to prescribe medications and even discuss possible surgeries.
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This can, sadly, be true. Find a good specialist.
 
good doctors are hard to find!

I just think that my father is tired of doctors (at least the ones who pass out pills). He does not want to become addicted to narcotics (again).

He is a good drunk though… happy, funny and fun. He is never mean or depressed when he drinks (at least not that i’ve seen). Also, he drinks in the house and there is little temptation for him to commit other sins while drinking because he’s only around me and my mom!

also father-son bonding over drinks is a good thing right?
 
Wollie said:
I just think that my father is tired of doctors (at least the ones who pass out pills). He does not want to become addicted to narcotics (again).

He is a good drunk though… happy, funny and fun. He is never mean or depressed when he drinks (at least not that i’ve seen). Also, he drinks in the house and there is little temptation for him to commit other sins while drinking because he’s only around me and my mom!
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That’s great to hear 🙂 Still, make the effort and try to find a good pain specialist – alcohol may be working okay for him right now, but that doesn’t make it the best solution or even guarantee it’ll keep working. Self-medication is unpredictable, and a few steps up from the basement doesn’t put you on the ground floor.
also father-son bonding over drinks is a good thing right?
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In moderation!
 
My mother has also suffered from severe back pain for quite a few years. She spent several years on heavy-duty narcotic painkillers and hated how disconnected they made her feel. A few years ago, she started seeing doctors at a Pain Management clinic and had a morphine pump implanted under the skin. It delivers a controlled dose of medication right to the nerves that are carrying the pain signal away from injury site.

I watched her struggle to find a doctor who was willing to listen to her and find a solution that didn’t have as many side effects. It may take some time and legwork, but Pain Management clinics are doing great things for people with chronic pain issues…I’m praying for your father and your family - I understand how taxing this can be on everyone.
 
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