My firend is claiming John 16:12 is about Muhammad

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What he said:
“How Jesus (pbuh) referred to Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible: John, Chapter 16: 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.”

Obviously his assumption is false but can anyone elaborate or explain what this is actually referring to? Thanks
 
Catholic102886 said:
What he said:
“How Jesus (pbuh) referred to Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible: John, Chapter 16: 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.”

Obviously his assumption is false but can anyone elaborate or explain what this is actually referring to? Thanks
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Spirit of truth = Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity
 
Islam is a profane religion, and the utterance of a false prophet.
How do we know this?
Matthew, Chapter 7, makes it all very clear, and if Christians have any questions about who might be a false prophet, they should consult this scripture.
9 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20
So by their fruits you will know them.
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The world’s ravening wolves are Muslims. Their history has indicted them, and no multicultural campaign of reputation control will change that.
No Christian, if he is honest with himself, can ever assert that Islam is sacred, and that Mohammed is the prophet of God.
 
Why would my Muslim friend say it is referring to Muhammad when in verse 15 It is clearly referring to the Spirit?:

15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
 
viveret said:
Islam is a profane religion, and the utterance of a false prophet.
How do we know this?
Matthew, Chapter 7, makes it all very clear, and if Christians have any questions about who might be a false prophet, they should consult this scripture.

The world’s ravening wolves are Muslims. Their history has indicted them, and no multicultural campaign of reputation control will change that.
No Christian, if he is honest with himself, can ever assert that Islam is sacred, and that Mohammed is the prophet of God.
Click to expand...
I know some good muslims so I guess they are good fruit. Good fruit never come out of a rotten tree, right? So I guess Islam is a good tree.
 
Catholic102886 said:
What he said:
“How Jesus (pbuh) referred to Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible: John, Chapter 16: 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.”

Obviously his assumption is false but can anyone elaborate or explain what this is actually referring to? Thanks
Click to expand...
My understanding of the claim is as follows. The Gk. word “paraclete” found in Jn. 14: 15-17 and Jn. 16:7-8 is thought by some Muslims to be a prophecy of/reference to the coming of Prophet Muhammad. (This word is usually rendered in English something along the lines of “Advocate” or “Consoler” and Christians would say that here Jesus is referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.)

The argument’s a little complicated, but words containing “-klitos” (“apoklitos,” etc.) are words that mean things like “steadfast”, “unchanging”, etc. which is along the lines (sort of) the same Semitic root that forms the name Muhammad.

As I understand it, the above passage in John: i.e., “speak(ing) only what he hears” is thought by some Muslims to refer to the dictation of the Koran and the ultimate truth to be understood via this Koranic revelation.
 
This is one of the most obvious contradictions of Islam. Muslims claim that the Gospels are “corrupted”, yet they use this one part to say that Jesus is referring to Muhammad. Why would this one passage be an exception?🤷
 
bingbang said:
I know some good muslims so I guess they are good fruit. Good fruit never come out of a rotten tree, right? So I guess Islam is a good tree.
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You have played it safe.
  1. You have not revealed your religion.
  2. You decided to guess rather than to conclude.
 
JackVk said:
This is one of the most obvious contradictions of Islam. Muslims claim that the Gospels are “corrupted”, yet they use this one part to say that Jesus is referring to Muhammad. Why would this one passage be an exception?🤷
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No, no, this argument too is based on the corruption of scripture. Muslims that follow this line of reasoning will likely claim that the original “paraklitos” (something like “honored one”; “steadfast one”) was changed by later Christians to “parakletos” or Paraclete.

Wherever I hear the reference from John, I’m always reminded of Isa 40:1, “parakalete, parakalete” (Comfort, comfort, my people…)
 
Catholic102886 said:
What he said:
“How Jesus (pbuh) referred to Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible: John, Chapter 16: 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.”

Obviously his assumption is false but can anyone elaborate or explain what this is actually referring to? Thanks
Click to expand...
This is referring to the Pentecost, first, and to the guidance of the Church by the Holy Spirit throughout the ages.
 
Catholic102886 said:
What he said:
“How Jesus (pbuh) referred to Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible: John, Chapter 16: 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.”

Obviously his assumption is false but can anyone elaborate or explain what this is actually referring to? Thanks
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

// pick and choose…that’s all it is…
 
bingbang said:
I know some good muslims so I guess they are good fruit. Good fruit never come out of a rotten tree, right? So I guess Islam is a good tree.
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Your basis for judging good is misguided:

Lu 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Since there are none good, Christians become good by Christ imputing righteousness through his death and resurrection.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Since Muslims do not receive Christ, they cannot be good.

Furthermore:

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

If you say that Christ does not indwell those of the church, you deny he “came in the flesh”. Since Muslims deny that Christ has come in the flesh of the church, that the church is the body of Christ, they are of the spirit of anti-Christ.
 
As I’ve written before, and to amplify the point:
If you are a Christian, and if you are honest with yourself, you must conclude that Islam is a profane religion and the utterance of a false prophet.
Muslims themselves may devote their lives to decent or indecent conduct, but the truth above is immutable.
 
slave_of_god said:
he will tell you what is yet to come. What did the holy spirit tell us exactly ?
Thanks.
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He confirms to us by the gift of Faith Who Jesus Is - the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, incarnate as the Man Jesus Christ. And the Holy Spirit guides us to live in that truth as preserved and protected through the Church Christ established so as to live eternally with the Son in the glory He has with the Father and the same Holy Spirit.
 
So after explaining the spirit of truth is the holy spirit my friend responded with this:

**"1.) It was said to be that the Spirit of Truth was coming in the bible and in the greek bible the used the word Periklytos meaning the honorable one to describe the prophet to come.

2.) Continuing the verse: John 16:7-14 “Nevertheless I tel…l you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.”

In the NEW Testament a Spirit is referred to as a human. Showing you that it is a person (i.e. he will “speak”)because if it weren’t it would be refferred to as IT.

My question is that since there is only ONE GOD…how come christians worship Jesus & The Holy Spirt as well? Are they implying that there are 3 Gods? Whom do you pray to?"**

How do I address the Periklytos misunderstanding on his part? thanks
 
Catholic102886 said:
So after explaining the spirit of truth is the holy spirit my friend responded with this:

**"1.) It was said to be that the Spirit of Truth was coming in the bible and in the greek bible the used the word Periklytos meaning the honorable one to describe the prophet to come.

**

How do I address the Periklytos misunderstanding on his part? thanks
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Doesn’t periklytos translate to paraclete? This is one who represents someone in court? The Holy Spirit testifies for us to God. This is all of my memory banks which really, really needs a good dusting!
 
By the logic Muslims are going by, we might as well take a quote out of Star Wars and say it’s referring to a character from the Star Trek universe.
 
Look, the word in Greek translates to spirit/wind/ghost (in a couple passages). You can look it up in hundreds of other contexts; same word. Doesn’t refer to a person, but it does refer to personhood. There’s a difference. Mohammed is disqualified. End of story. Muslims get notoriously weird in their apologetic arguments, and in my personal opinion have a very stark, simplistic view of God, so make sure your debate is productive before you even continue with it. Some of the more educated ones can get incredibly nuanced and, dare I say, creative with their own theology, yet will not extend you the same courtesy. The only muslims that sometimes seem to be a bit more open to Trinitarian doctrine from the getgo are the sufis, but that’s a bit of a mystical branch of the tree, to say the least; a bit like comparing Kabbalah to orthodox Judaism.

Sometimes the lamp analogy helps: The Father is the bulb, Jesus is the light, the Holy Spirit is the heat, all parts operating independently of each other, but it’s one lamp.
 
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