My firend is claiming John 16:12 is about Muhammad

[Dave_Noonan]

So after explaining the spirit of truth is the holy spirit my friend responded with this:

**"1.) It was said to be that the Spirit of Truth was coming in the bible and in the greek bible the used the word Periklytos meaning the honorable one to describe the prophet to come.

2.) Continuing the verse: John 16:7-14 “Nevertheless I tel…l you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.”

In the NEW Testament a Spirit is referred to as a human. Showing you that it is a person (i.e. he will “speak”)because if it weren’t it would be refferred to as IT.

My question is that since there is only ONE GOD…how come christians worship Jesus & The Holy Spirt as well? Are they implying that there are 3 Gods? Whom do you pray to?"**

How do I address the Periklytos misunderstanding on his part? thanks

See #6 above. We have a different word in our Bible.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Look, the word in Greek translates to spirit/wind/ghost (in a couple passages). You can look it up in hundreds of other contexts; same word. Doesn’t refer to a person, but it does refer to personhood. There’s a difference. Mohammed is disqualified. End of story. Muslims get notoriously weird in their apologetic arguments, and in my personal opinion have a very stark, simplistic view of God, so make sure your debate is productive before you even continue with it. Some of the more educated ones can get incredibly nuanced and, dare I say, creative with their own theology, yet will not extend you the same courtesy. The only muslims that sometimes seem to be a bit more open to Trinitarian doctrine from the getgo are the sufis, but that’s a bit of a mystical branch of the tree, to say the least; a bit like comparing Kabbalah to orthodox Judaism.

Sometimes the lamp analogy helps: The Father is the bulb, Jesus is the light, the Holy Spirit is the heat, all parts operating independently of each other, but it’s one lamp.

Spirit/wind/ghost is a different word.

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

Nope. Same Greek word “pneuma”, in different forms depending on grammatical context. Translates to spirit, wind, and in a couple contexts, ghost. I’m speaking of John 16:12, John 3:5, and many others.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Nope. Same Greek word “pneuma”, in different forms depending on grammatical context. Translates to spirit, wind, and in a couple contexts, ghost. I’m speaking of John 16:12, John 3:5, and many others.

The way I read it was that the updated question was about the paraklytos/paraklitos difference.

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

It doesn’t really matter what word they use for paraclete, because John 14:26 clarifies that the paraclete (best understood as an advocate because of it’s root meaning) is the Holy Spirit (pneuma) which does not refer to a person in the Bible. It can, however, refer to personhood, and so fits comfortably with Christian theology as opposed to Islamic in reference to a person of the Trinity.

 

[slave_of_god]

Spirit of truth = Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity

why do you think he is the same ?
thanks

 

[slave_of_god]

He confirms to us by the gift of Faith Who Jesus Is - the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, incarnate as the Man Jesus Christ. And the Holy Spirit guides us to live in that truth as preserved and protected through the Church Christ established so as to live eternally with the Son in the glory He has with the Father and the same Holy Spirit.

can you tell me if there is certain verses in the bible about what he told us ?
Thanks.

 

[FCEGM]

can you tell me if there is certain verses in the bible about what he told us ?
Thanks.

This article gives a good overview of the work of the Holy Spirit as presented in Sacred Scripture:

newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

Further, the lessons of the Holy Spirit aren’t limited to what is contained in the pages of the Scriptures, but He speaks to the heart of each man to enter into communion with the Father through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Those who have ears to hear the Holy Spirit awake to the salvation He offers in the fullness of the Divine Charity.

 

[japhy]

“Now this he said about the Spirit, which those who believed in him were to receive; for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.” (John 7:39)

John’s Gospel makes it very clear that the One Whom the Father and the Son will send is the Holy Spirit.

“And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)

Did Mohammed dwell with the Apostles? Does he dwell with us?

“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” (John 14:26)

“But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me.” (John 15:26)

“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” (John 16:12-13)

If the One to be sent was the Holy Spirit, Jesus waited all of nine days after His Ascension to give His Church a sure guide into “all the truth”. During those nine days, the Apostles were in Jerusalem, as Jesus instructed them to be, praying and waiting. (cf. Luke 24:49-53; Acts 1)

If the One to be sent was Mohammed, Jesus waited centuries after His Ascension to give His Church that sure guide into “all the truth”. During those centuries, there were many issues that required knowledge and discernment and deliberation and the passing of judgment. Wouldn’t a guide have been helpful? The Council of Jerusalem thought so: “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things…” (Acts 15:28)

 

[NotWorthy]

If the One to be sent was the Holy Spirit, Jesus waited all of nine days after His Ascension to give His Church a sure guide into “all the truth”. During those nine days, the Apostles were in Jerusalem, as Jesus instructed them to be, praying and waiting. (cf. Luke 24:49-53; Acts 1)

I know this is not to the point of the thread, but thus is born the first Tradition of the Church - The Novena!

 

[slave_of_god]

This article gives a good overview of the work of the Holy Spirit as presented in Sacred Scripture:

newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

Further, the lessons of the Holy Spirit aren’t limited to what is contained in the pages of the Scriptures, but He speaks to the heart of each man to enter into communion with the Father through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Those who have ears to hear the Holy Spirit awake to the salvation He offers in the fullness of the Divine Charity.

Thank you for that really useful page.

he will tell you what is yet to come ( John16: 12). What I understood, it is he will tell us events not occured yet. That is what I wanted to know if there is verses about.If the answer was in the previous page, please tell me where ! , Thanks.
I also want to understand what are sins against the Holy Ghost mentioned there?

 

[FCEGM]

Thank you for that really useful page.

he will tell you what is yet to come ( John16: 12). What I understood, it is he will tell us events not occured yet.

This is a reference to the Prophetic nature of the Church (along with its Kingly and Priestly nature), i.e., both in teaching - especially in regard to the morals - and in the more commonly understood nature of prophecy in warning of dangers in the times. This latter aspect of prophecy was at the forefront of the early Church in Jerusalem; the Holy Spirit guided the Church through its leaders such that few Christians were left in the city when that it fell to the Romans.

I also want to understand what are sins against the Holy Ghost mentioned there?

Towards the end of it, article which you read at the on-line Catholic Encyclopedia addresses this:

“. . .to sin against the Holy Ghost is to confound Him with the spirit of evil, it is to deny, from pure malice, the Divine character of works manifestly Divine.”

For more on the Holy Spirit, this section of The Catechism of the Catholic Church would be helpful to you:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p2.htm#I

 

[slave_of_god]

This is a reference to the Prophetic nature of the Church (along with its Kingly and Priestly nature), i.e., both in teaching - especially in regard to the morals - and in the more commonly understood nature of prophecy in warning of dangers in the times. This latter aspect of prophecy was at the forefront of the early Church in Jerusalem; the Holy Spirit guided the Church through its leaders such that few Christians were left in the city when that it fell to the Romans.

Is this Prophetic nature of the Church in warning of dangers was at the forefront of the early Church in Jerusalem Only ? or still nowadays ?

 

[FCEGM]

Is this Prophetic nature of the Church in warning of dangers was at the forefront of the early Church in Jerusalem Only ? or still nowadays ?

It’s still operating today and until the End. Just considering the Popes of this and the last century, one can see their prophetic warnings of the dangers of their times: Modernism, Naziism, Consumerism, Communism, immorality in all its guises, etc., etc., and the ills that befall our world when people succumb to what goes against God and His Church.