My First 4 Months of marriage

[SeminoleGirl22]

a while back, i posted about how my husband views pornography, and how we fight all the time. a month later, and things are still not better.

i am so disgusted by this, that i cannot become intimate with him. we have had sex less than 5 times since we have been married. it didnt take but a week to find the DVD porn, and after that i have been so extremely turned off. i cannot have sex with a man who looks at pornography to fullfill desires that dont start with me. i cannot have sex with a man who i know is committing such a terrible sin.

he bothers me about sex. he asks to have sex, i say not until he cleans up his habits, and he says “OK, ill just go take care of it myself”. he knows i am sexually frustrated, yet cannot fulfill my sexual desires alone like he does.

i actually hid his computer monitor in the basement, so he went out and spent 6000$ on a new computer from an internet reseller. not that 6000$ is a deadly blow for HIM, since he makes quite alot of money that i dont have access to.

i called the credit card company to cancel the card, and transaction, but they said since i had not been added jointly to the account after we were married, i had no authority to do so. HOW CAN I BE MARRIED TO HIM AND NOT HAVE ANY SAY OVER OUR MONEY? the bank wont add me to his account *, until they get HIS consent. i cannot stop him from spending money on things that i dont feel are necessary. the banks and the card companies say that they just cant add even a WIFE to an account without consent of the original holder.

i asked him to please take care of this. his response: “not until we start having sex”. thats about how everything goes. it looks like i am going to have to bribe him to do things with sex. if i am out of money for the week and i ask for some, you guessed it: “only if you have sex with me”. does he think i am a prostitute?

i think we are at a deadlock. he says he can watch whatever he wants in his house. i am practicing “tough love”, to which he continues the porn habit to fulfill the lack of sex. i wont give in because i know i am right about church teachings, so he wont give in and uses other things to try to make me.

i cried my eyes out to my priest, who told me that anullment like some of you had suggested is not an option. he said i am called to follow church teachings, and be the “city on the hill”. how i do that is up to me he said.

i am the city on the hill i guess, but my husband is the town on the lake 10,000 miles away. i just cant get him to do anything without him saying “Not until…”

i just cant see having sex with a man, and the possibility of becoming pregnant and bringing a child into this home until we are ready. how can i want to have sex if i feel we are not ready for children? not until he has stopped this terrible habit. i just cant take the chance a baby will be brought up here with him acting the way he is.*

 

[MaryB23]

Oh Gosh. I’m sorry I don’t have any advice for you, but I will pray for you and your husband.

 

[puzzleannie]

you have a lot more issues, as the control issue over money demonstrates, and I hope you get counselling FAST. Cannot comment on personal situation of you and husband, but it is born out by both pastoral and psychological counsellors who have long experience dealing with this problem that a man (or woman) who relies on porn and masturbation as his primary sexual outlet is fixated in an immature state of personality development and is possibly or probably incapable of entering into a valid marriage covenant. He is and has been unfaithful to his wife before and during marriage, and on that basis the true intimacy of marriage cannot develop. repeat, get counselling fast, not all porn addicts become violent, but virtually all violent sex offenders use porn, and there is a potential for violence in any relationship with a true porn addict. If a person puts the porn habit in higher priority to his wife, marriage and family, there is good reason to assume this is an addiction that requires professional help. We pray for all those caught up in such an evil situation.

 

[felra]

a
i cried my eyes out to my priest, who told me that anullment like some of you had suggested is not an option. he said i am called to follow church teachings, and be the “city on the hill”. how i do that is up to me he said.

This is some brave advice given to you. Sounds like he kinda launched you into harbor with a hands off approach to offering practical advice and supports. Getting ideas on this forum is fine for starters, but I believe that you need to develop a support network of solid Catholic woman and priest to weather out the storm and stay the course of this one priest advice. Can he give you any practical ideas other than point the direction? If not, try another priest or parish or vicariate resource for practical helps to retain the integrity of your faith and marriage. Professional counseling minimally for yourself is a must to understand the pathological behaviors exhibited by your husband.

i am the city on the hill i guess, but my husband is the town on the lake 10,000 miles away. i just cant get him to do anything without him saying “Not until…”

Stay close to Jesus through daily prayer and the sacraments.

i just cant see having sex with a man, and the possibility of becoming pregnant and bringing a child into this home until we are ready. how can i want to have sex if i feel we are not ready for children? not until he has stopped this terrible habit. i just cant take the chance a baby will be brought up here with him acting the way he is.

I would trust you instinct on this one and not be swayed otherwise by anyone.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

You have multiple problems going on here. You need Catholic counseling for yourself even if he refuses to go along, but if he does refuse joint counseling, the possiblity of happy endings drops pretty close to zero.

You are well within your right to refuse to go along with his demands to trade sex for shadows of meeting his own obligations in marriage. First he gives himself fully to you, then he gets the marital privledge. At this point, he’s shown nothing but contempt for your marriage vows.

When my wife and I married, we immediately (within two days after our honeymoon) switched to a single joint checking account and I added her to my credit cards. That he’s using money to control you (and even thought about trading money for sex) is a good reason to start looking out for yourself as far as putting enough aside to have some to run on.

 

[wcknight]

Your marriage has gotten off to a rotten start. That is unfortunate, part of it is his fault but some of it is yours as well. There seems to be a control issue here as well, you are using sex as way to control his behavior and that is not good either.

And your withholding sex has actually had a reverse effect from what you wanted. Your tough love routine has not only NOT worked, it has backfired. It has caused your marriage even more problems than what it set out to solve.

It takes time to build a trusting relationship. After 4 months that is just too short. It would have be great IF you had agreed on joint accounts from the very beginning. That did not happen and it will not suddenly go that route given the amount of problems that you have encountered so early in your marriage.

I don’t think you have built the kind of loving marriage in which you can make such demands… yet. He probably thinks you are on a control kick and are trying to take over his life. That is not the position that you want to start from.

Since you’ve had some many problems so early in your relationship, it appears that he has not built the trust or love needed to make your appeals to him feel comfortable with giving you control over his life.

For him to think that it is better for him to have sex alone rather than have sex with you is quite telling. It shows that he is feeling more uncomfortable dealing with your wishes and demands that he should be.

He obviously does not have the emotional attachment to you that he should have. IF there is conflict every time he interacts with you, then that is not leading to a heathy situation.

The old saying you can draw a lot more bees with sugar than you can with vinegar is true here. He needs to become a lot more attached to you than he is to his porn or himself.

Lay off the demands, and get him hooked on you and not the other stuff. You can keep him away from the other stuff with more sex not less. He needs to be convinced that having sex with you is far better than watching porn or on his own.

Make your demands much later when your relationship is on more solid footing, and turn your demands from commands to suggestions. No one wants to be told or given ultimatums but most are okay with suggestions to improve or to help.

There is usually a knee jerk negative reaction when someone is ordered to do something, but there is usually a more positive response when asked.

wc

 

[vern_humphrey]

Guys, what we’re doing here is reinforcing destructive behavior. The priest was right – there is no grounds for annulment, and we should not counsel the OP to divorce and seek an annulment.

And it does no good to say things like

You are well within your right to refuse to go along with his demands to trade sex for shadows of meeting his own obligations in marriage. First he gives himself fully to you, then he gets the marital privledge. At this point, he’s shown nothing but contempt for your marriage vows.

The Church does not teach that two wrongs make a right.]

It is much better to realize that

And your withholding sex has actually had a reverse effect from what you wanted. Your tough love routine has not only NOT worked, it has backfired. It has caused your marriage even more problems than what it set out to solve.

The OP can only control her own behavior. She needs to develop a strategy to break this confrontational cycle. The best approach is love and prayer.

 

[felra]

wcknight:

And your withholding sex has actually had a reverse effect from what you wanted. Your tough love routine has not only NOT worked, it has backfired. It has caused your marriage even more problems than what it set out to solve.

The way that the OP presented, to engage in marital relations with her husbdand would be all but degrading to her dignity. Is this what the Church and Christ wants her to do to access leverage/influence over her husband’s pathological and lewd ways?

 

[Ray_Scheel]

vern humphrey:

The Church does not teach that two wrongs make a right.

But the Church does hold that a spouse has the right to withold the marital privledge temporarily (as in, until the problem is resolved) for any of the issues in which her husband is in grave error: infidelity (both via porn and self-abuse), not meeting her temporal needs, and de facto emotional abuse. For that matter, those are even legitimate reasons to separate from a spouse until the erring spouse repents and is willing to at least work on the issues.

 

[Scanner]

Complicated.

As a guy who has engaged in/committed this sin from time to time, and it is a sin, no bones about it, my advice to you is please don’t take the sin personally. You seem to be taking the whole weight of his sin upon yourself and this marriage. It’s not **your ** sin; it is his.

Forgiveness, I forget, has it’s root meaning on taking the weight off of you. Very wise of God - he commands us to forgive for own good. He has sinned against you, the women in those movies, against God but you need to forgive for your own sake. Say an Our Father and it helps.

But. . .onto to the task at hand. . .

For that, I wish every married (and unmarried guy) would see how hurt and angry you are.

Try some secular reasoning with him - it has been shown the consequence of constantly viewing porn is it will eventually decrease desire and make him insensitive to your naked body. So, abstaining from it is in his own selfish interests, not just yours or God’s or the Church’s. In other words, what he is doing may end up in a psychological impotence.

Something else to help you - I know it is the Church mandate to never sin and never do it again, I would just ask him to see if he can abstain for one month for you to start. If he can’t, you really have a case for “addiction” in which case counseling is very important. He should be able to abstain from anything for one month (internet, porn, booze, etc.).

Another thought, getting him around more mature male figures on how to desire a woman (your wife) naturally will help. Men tend to be anti-social creature often - does he have friends or an uncle or a father-figure who can help him with this? Sometimes men just need a good knock upside the head, to put it bluntly.

Finally, God is perhaps very wise on this sin - as I have gotten older, my desires have changed. While being a visual guy still for sure, those images could really do little for me any more (not claiming perfection on this - I do become weak and commit this sin). But my needs have changed and I need to connect to and want my wife’s beautiful body that bore me 2 beautiful kids as has that great little extra where men like that little extra. She is really who I desire. It just gets mixed up in my head with loving females and loving her. (testerone mixes things up in your head as much as estrogen - a little secret)

These are just random thoughts; just thought you may like to get in the head of sinner. I’ll admit I haven’t scrutinized my advice for Catholic approval so take it with a grain of appropriate salt. I only post them because it seem your priest is bouncing this back in your lap. Would hate to undermine any of his advice.

Feel free for any poster to criticize my suggestions. I don’t mind.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ray_Scheel:

But the Church does hold that a spouse has the right to withold the marital privledge temporarily (as in, until the problem is resolved) for any of the issues in which her husband is in grave error: infidelity (both via porn and self-abuse), not meeting her temporal needs, and de facto emotional abuse. For that matter, those are even legitimate reasons to separate from a spouse until the erring spouse repents and is willing to at least work on the issues.

Where does the Church teach that it is morally acceptable for a husband or wife to withhold sex as a weapon or punitive act?

The OP admits her approach isn’t working – it’s making things worse.

We can only control our own behavior. If the OP wants this cycle of confrontation to stop, she must change her behavior first.

That’s why I say love and prayer is the answer.

 

[StratusRose]

I agree with wcnight. From my current relationship, I can ascertain that men do not respond well to threats. And dangling sex above one’s head is also counterproductive. Marriage shouldn’t be conditional, it’s about give and take.

Hiding computer screens and locking him out of his home were probably not the best approaches. Doing this will only make his will stronger. He has to prove to you that he can still do what he wants. He has to kick this habit on his own. It’s like forcing someone to quit drinking or smoking, can’t be done. They have to make up their mind to stop.

When I caught my boyfriend with his porn for the 4th time, I cried my eyes out and told him it made me feel rejected and ugly,then he finally understood how much it hurt me. He went to his closet and broke the tapes and threw away the magazines. The first time I caught him, I responded with threats and talked condescendingly to him, obviously it didn’t help.

Avoid phrases that contain “you.” Instead of telling him “You are sinning against God, I can’t believe you did this to me, You need to get rid of this…” Try “This really hurts me because, and I care about your soul because…” Tell him how YOU feel.

I also don’t blame you for not having sex with him. I would explain to him that you are with holding relations because it hurts you to be with him when he may be thinking about someone else. Avoid saying things like “I’m not going to have sex until you get rid of the porn.” Again, that sounds threatening.

I am not trying to make you look like the “bad guy.” I hate pornography. I hate what it does to people. And I am especially sympathetic toward your efforts to make it go away. I am so sorry this is happening to you. It’s not your fault he looks at porn either, so please don’t get that impression. I understand your pain and distrust for him. I sincerely hope you weather this storm, and if you do, your marriage will be a lot stronger because of it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

StratusRose:

I agree with wcnight. From my current relationship, I can ascertain that men do not respond well to threats. And dangling sex above one’s head is also counterproductive. Marriage shouldn’t be conditional, it’s about give and take.

I think we must understand that this is a catch-up game. Before progress can be made in this marriage, the wounds of the first four months of fighting have to be healed.

I would recommend to the OP that she put everything else on the back burner for now and concentrate on making this a loving relationship – regardless of any later plans to get her husband to change his ideas about pornography. Only when the marriage is reestablished on a firm footing can she hope to make progress.

I recommend love and prayer.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

vern humphrey:

Where does the Church teach that it is morally acceptable for a husband or wife to withhold sex as a weapon or punitive act?

I was speaking strictly to witholding the the marital privledge for the duration of the time the errant spouse was committing grave offenses against the marriage bond, not using the using witholding “sex as a weapon or punitive act” per se. I’ve been the victim of that over-reaction in my own marriage, I’m not saying, or even wanting to imply, that its legitimate to withold sex until the other spouse is “perfect”, but while refusing to even work on the issues the husband of the OP justifies her use of that tool. For where I’m coming from, see:

Can 1152-1153
ourladyswarriors.org/canon/c0840-1165.htm#par2357

I’ve also seen references to Moral Theology, pp. 557 & 558 by Fr. Heibert Jone, but can’t find the actual text online
vern humphrey:

The OP admits her approach isn’t working – it’s making things worse.

I’m not endorsing locking him out or hiding the computer screen either, that part of the OP’s approach does need to change, thus the recommendation that she get professional - but Catholic - counseling immediately and see what happens from there

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ray_Scheel:

I was speaking strictly to witholding the the marital privledge for the duration of the time the errant spouse was committing grave offenses against the marriage bond, not using the using witholding “sex as a weapon or punitive act” per se. I’ve been the victim of that over-reaction in my own marriage, I’m not saying, or even wanting to imply, that its legitimate to withold sex until the other spouse is “perfect”, but while refusing to even work on the issues the husband of the OP justifies her use of that tool. For where I’m coming from, see:

Can 1152-1153
ourladyswarriors.org/canon/c0840-1165.htm#par2357

I’ve also seen references to Moral Theology, pp. 557 & 558 by Fr. Heibert Jone, but can’t find the actual text online

Here’s the cite:

Can. 1151 Spouses have the obligation and the right to maintain their common conjugal life, unless a lawful reason excuses them.

Can. 1152 ß1 It is earnestly recommended that a spouse, motivated by Christian charity and solicitous for the good of the family, should not refuse to pardon an adulterous partner and should not sunder the conjugal life. Nevertheless, if that spouse has not either expressly or tacitly condoned the other’s fault, **he or she has the right to sever the common conjugal life, provided he or she has not consented to the adultery, nor been the cause of it, nor also committed adultery.
**
**ß2 Tacit condonation occurs if the innocent spouse, after becoming aware of the adultery, has willingly engaged in a marital relationship with the other spouse; it is presumed, however, if the innocent spouse has maintained the common conjugal life for six months, and has not had recourse to ecclesiastical or to civil authority.
**

ß3 Within six months of having spontaneously terminated the common conjugal life, the innocent spouse is to bring a case for separation to the competent ecclesiastical authority. Having examined all the circumstances, this authority is to consider whether the innocent spouse can be brought to condone the fault and not prolong the separation permanently.

Can. 1153 ß1 A spouse who occasions grave danger of soul or body to the other or to the children, or otherwise makes the common life unduly difficult, provides the other spouse with a reason to leave, either by a decree of the local Ordinary or, if there is danger in delay, even on his or her own authority.

ß2 In all cases, when the reason for separation ceases, the common conjugal life is to be restored, unless otherwise provided by ecclesiastical authority.

Can. 1154 When a separation of spouses has taken place, provision is always, and in good time, to be made for the due maintenance and upbringing of the children.

Can. 1155 The innocent spouse may laudably readmit the other spouse to the conjugal life, in which case he or she renounces the right to separation .

This addresses separation, not withholding sex, and presumes that the possession of pornography is the same as adultry.

As the OP admits, withholding sex isn’t working.

Ray_Scheel:

I’m not endorsing locking him out or hiding the computer screen either, that part of the OP’s approach does need to change, thus the recommendation that she get professional - but Catholic - counseling immediately and see what happens from there

Indeed, she should get professional counseling – but on an earlier thread she said she couldn’t afford it. When she went to her priest, he counseled her:

cried my eyes out to my priest, who told me that anullment like some of you had suggested is not an option. he said i am called to follow church teachings, and be the “city on the hill”. how i do that is up to me he said.

I would advise her to consider these points:

1. What is your goal or objective? Pick one which represents the thing you want to look back on at the end of your life. I personally would pick “To have a happy marriage.”
2. Ask yourself, “Is my present course of action moving me toward that goal?” In this case, the answer seems obviously to be no.
3. In selecting a new course of action, remember you can only change your own behavior.

I also point out that this is a catch-up game. The wounds of the first four months must be healed before any progress toward the goal can be made.

That’s why I say love and prayer is the answer.

 

[StratusRose]

vern humphrey:

I think we must understand that this is a catch-up game. Before progress can be made in this marriage, the wounds of the first four months of fighting have to be healed.

I would recommend to the OP that she put everything else on the back burner for now and concentrate on making this a loving relationship – regardless of any later plans to get her husband to change his ideas about pornography. Only when the marriage is reestablished on a firm footing can she hope to make progress.

I recommend love and prayer.

I agree. :yup:

 

[Island_Oak]

felra:

This is some brave advice given to you. Sounds like he kinda launched you into harbor with a hands off approach to offering practical advice and supports. Getting ideas on this forum is fine for starters, but I believe that you need to develop a support network of solid Catholic woman and priest to weather out the storm and stay the course of this one priest advice. Can he give you any practical ideas other than point the direction? If not, try another priest or parish or vicariate resource for practical helps to retain the integrity of your faith and marriage. Professional counseling minimally for yourself is a must to understand the pathological behaviors exhibited by your husband.

Stay close to Jesus through daily prayer and the sacraments.

I would trust you instinct on this one and not be swayed otherwise by anyone.

Great post…and while I am not one to advocate divorce annulment on an anonymous message board, some period of separation is certainly something to consider. The OP’s husband’s behaviour IS pathological and cruel. I would find the means and avenue to escape this influence and then work on attempting to fix it with professional help.

 

[Princess_Abby]

I can’t even imagine the pain of this situation…

The two of you are locked in a powerplay. He seems determined to bend your will through depriving you of access to money and demanding sex as a bartering tool for treating you with the respect a wife deserves.

I can completely understand the fear you must have of bringing a baby into this toxic situation. I would not have sex with him and sacrifice my dignity either.

Have you contacted Catholic Charities in your area? They offer counseling on a sliding scale and whatever you can afford, is what you will most likely pay.

Where are your parents? Do you have siblings or close friends? A period of separation to evaluate the situation and mutually come to some decision of compromise seems to be in order.

 

[timmyo]

One priest’s opinion is not enough in this case. Does your diocese have counseling services or can they refer you to counseling? I live in Chicago and they have links on the archdiocese website for their counselors. Complicated situations do not require simple one sentence answers from your priest or anyone else here. These counselors can look at the facts of your situation and determine the courses of action you should take, be it further counseling,separation, annullment, etc. He needs his own individual sexual counseling on top of that.

Don’t listen to the other people in this forum who are ordering you to have sex with your husband. The church maintains that refraining from sex is allowed for serious reasons including financial, emotional and other reasons. I think your situation qualifies. You are correct in not wanting to bring a child into the world at this time, when your husband may not ever be a fit father. In the meantime, try to be as loving as you can to him. Do nice things for him despite his behavior. Do things with him that will take him away from the computer and TV. Take walks, go to the beach, go for a drive, go out to eat, go to visit friends…etc. He has an addiction, which is very difficult to break. This is going to take time. Keep praying every day. Don’t give up hope. Keep asking for advice here.

 

[Catholic2003]

vern humphrey:

This addresses separation, not withholding sex, and presumes that the possession of pornography is the same as adultry.

Canon law defines what constitutes adultery, and possession of pornography does not count, nor does masterbation. On the other hand, what Clinton did with Monica does count. So do some other disgusting things that I won’t bring up as they are not at all relevant to this situation at hand.