My first Byzantine Divine Liturgy!

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Go! And then tell us about it! All parishes are obviously different so all we can do is pray that we feel God’s grace at whatever Mass we go to. I felt just like you, frustrated with mediocre masses. I’m privileged to have a pretty good parish but it’s been going thru some renovations and I’ve visited three different parishes this month. I was appalled. I never had gone thru what so many posters here complain about when talking about “folksy” masses and lazy liturgies. After visiting other parishes I understood their feelings better. I’ve been lucky at my parish (the Cathedral) but not many other parishes around me are as liturgically sound. I have also attended mass in Latin and I can certainly understand why some reforms were needed, however some things went too far. What I liked about the Byzantine Rite is that it keeps tradition and yet makes it accessible to all. TLM can be a bit tedious, and no matter what others may say I feel that the faithful should never be on “stand by” while the choir and the servers run everything. I personally pray for a renewed Roman Rite that keeps tradition as intended by the council (more Latin and ad orientem plus other things) yet simplifies the rite without defacing it. As far as the prayer before communion, the words " “I will not reveal Your mystery to your
enemies” probably alludes to the early church practice of not revealing the Eucharistic mysteries to outsiders due to misunderstandings that led to myths and rumors about Christians. As you may recall the traditional Roman Rite was divided between the Mass of the Catechumens (today’s liturgy of the Word) and the Mass of the Faithful (today’s liturgy of the Eucharist) for the same reason, to dully prepare catechumens to understand what the Eucharist really means. The Byzantine Rite keeps true to the meaning of “liturgy” because it keeps you working (singing from start to finish, crossing yourself, bowing,standing, etc) ! Thats the best part, your focus is always on Christ and the sacrifice of the Altar 🙂
Thanks for the info! I’ll keep you posted.
 
Anothing thing to keep in mind:
I know that in a Roman Catholic church, when you place your arms across your chest, it means you do not intend to receive Communion, but rather a blessing from the priest.
At an Orthodox Divine Liturgy–and probably at an Eastern Catholic Liturgy as well–we cross our arms against our chest if we do intend to receive Communion.

A
 
I had a wonderful class in the local Latin Church Diocese this past spring on the Holy Mysteries which was taught by Fr Anthony Hernandez, a Byzantine priest in the SF area who comes from a Mexican family. 🙂 He was an excellent teacher!
Fr. Anthony Hernandez’s Church, St Basil the Great in Los Gatos, holds a Byzantine Catholic mission in the Monterey/Salinas area once a month. So I am family with Fr. Anthony, he is a great teacher.
 
So, malphono wished that I would express what I saw at a Maronite church. Since I attended one yesterday, I thought I would share my experience as a Latin Rite Catholic. So when I walked into Our Lady of Cedars I noticed that the church was all not that different in look from certain Latin churches. Many of the statues and icons were made in a similar style, so I found it oddly familiar as I walked in at first. It was very unlike the Melkite church I had been to a week before, who had a far more eastern look to their church.

As I walked in, I grabbed a missal and sat down. This turned out to be really useful, as I do not know a single word in Syriac. The whole thing proceeded in a mix of English and Syriac. I managed to follow along pretty well. I also managed to genuflect the way the Eastern Rite does without ever reverting to the way that I am used to, which took more effort than you would think.

I also noticed that there are no kneelers, which at first surprised me since I saw them at the Melkite church, and since the Maronites seemed to be more similar to the Latin Rite, I thought they might have them. Maybe it is just exclusive to that church. Maybe a Maronite could tell me?

Another thing that stuck out to me was the hymns. They were simply fantastic. Maybe the parish just had some good singers, but I honestly thought that the hymns that were sung in Syriac were fantastic. Really good. Much better than what I usually hear at my parish.

Also, the homily was good. I do not know the name of the priest who gave it, but he certainly had some good things to say. And he showed far more emotion and strength than many priests that I have seen over the years. This was definitely the high point of the whole event.

In the end, it was an enjoyable experience. It was more similar to the Latin Rite than the Melkites were, which gave it this weird sense of familiarity, but still, I loved it. Syriac is a beautiful language, and hearing the prayers spoken in it was fantastic. I just wish I knew it a bit better. At one point the priest was making an announcement, both in English and Syriac. While he was making an announcement in Syriac he made some sort of angry statement while he vigorously waved the cross in his hand. I kind of wonder what he was talking about. Ah well, I still really liked it.
 
So, malphono wished that I would express what I saw at a Maronite church. Since I attended one yesterday, I thought I would share my experience as a Latin Rite Catholic. So when I walked into Our Lady of Cedars I noticed that the church was all not that different in look from certain Latin churches. Many of the statues and icons were made in a similar style, so I found it oddly familiar as I walked in at first. It was very unlike the Melkite church I had been to a week before, who had a far more eastern look to their church.
I’ve never been to Jamaica Plain myself, but church appointments are generally pretty much as you describe. Some places have all but eliminated statues, (introduced as a latinization beginning in the 17th century), or moved them to the vestibule, while others have kept some or all in the church itself.
As I walked in, I grabbed a missal and sat down. This turned out to be really useful, as I do not know a single word in Syriac. The whole thing proceeded in a mix of English and Syriac.
The use of the Syriac language is, in practice, (and most unfortunately so), very limited: the Trisagion and the Institution Narrative being the most notable. The priest may, however, take other parts in Syriac, but it’s rare that one does.

In the anaphoral portion of the blue spiral-bound pew books, the text on the right-hand pages is Arabic in the left column and Syriac in the right. The scripts are totally different. In the portion before the anaphora, a few things are printed in Syriac script. With the exception of the skant few things that are retained in Syriac (by Synodal and eparchial directive) the use of languages other than the vernacular depends on the particular parish. A great many are totally devoid of anything but vernacular. 😦
I managed to follow along pretty well. I also managed to genuflect the way the Eastern Rite does without ever reverting to the way that I am used to, which took more effort than you would think.
I’m not clear as to what this means. Although the practice of genuflextion (again, introduced as a latinization beginning in the 17th century) is now officially discouraged, it was always done the same way as in the Latin Church.
I also noticed that there are no kneelers, which at first surprised me since I saw them at the Melkite church, and since the Maronites seemed to be more similar to the Latin Rite, I thought they might have them. Maybe it is just exclusive to that church. Maybe a Maronite could tell me?
Kneeling is yet another of the “old” latinizations which is now officially discouraged. In a way, it’s like the statues: some churches still have them, others do not.
Another thing that stuck out to me was the hymns. They were simply fantastic. Maybe the parish just had some good singers, but I honestly thought that the hymns that were sung in Syriac were fantastic. Really good. Much better than what I usually hear at my parish.
The text of most (if not all) of what was sung in other than English would have been Arabic. In some cases, the music used is of recent composition, reflecting a modern Middle Eastern style, while in other cases, the music itself (irrespective of the language used for the text) derives from the traditional Syriac melodies. But again, it all depends on the particular parish. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are some places where the Novus Ordo hymn books are the rule.
Also, the homily was good. I do not know the name of the priest who gave it, but he certainly had some good things to say. And he showed far more emotion and strength than many priests that I have seen over the years. This was definitely the high point of the whole event.
It was probably the new pastor whom I have not met.
In the end, it was an enjoyable experience. It was more similar to the Latin Rite than the Melkites were, which gave it this weird sense of familiarity, but still, I loved it.
See? I told you that there would be a sense of the familiar. 🙂
Syriac is a beautiful language, and hearing the prayers spoken in it was fantastic. I just wish I knew it a bit better. At one point the priest was making an announcement, both in English and Syriac. While he was making an announcement in Syriac he made some sort of angry statement while he vigorously waved the cross in his hand. I kind of wonder what he was talking about. Ah well, I still really liked it.
Yes, indeed, Syriac is lovely, but it’s 99.9999% sure that the language used was Arabic, not Syriac.
 
Yes, indeed, Syriac is lovely, but it’s 99.9999% sure that the language used was Arabic, not Syriac.
Ah, well not being familiar with either language most definitely contributed to my confusion.
 
In the end, it was an enjoyable experience. It was more similar to the Latin Rite than the Melkites were, which gave it this weird sense of familiarity, but still, I loved it. Syriac is a beautiful language, and hearing the prayers spoken in it was fantastic. I just wish I knew it a bit better. At one point the priest was making an announcement, both in English and Syriac. While he was making an announcement in Syriac he made some sort of angry statement while he vigorously waved the cross in his hand. I kind of wonder what he was talking about. Ah well, I still really liked it.
I had a somewhat similar experience at the Mass, as they refer to the Eucharistic liturgy at their parish, of an Assyrian Chaldean Catholic Church. I went to what I was told was the more English of the two Masses. That turned out to mean the Holy Gospel was proclaimed a second time, in English. Except for that every thing was in Arabic. At the end of the Mass, like your experience, the priest was announcing things when suddenly there was a collective gasp running through the pews. Later on I found out he had announced another murder of a Catholic had happened in Iraq.

The Mass at the Assyrian Chaldean Catholic Church was in many ways also somewhat like a Roman Rite Mass. I loved the music, and even though I could not follow the words I was very happy being there and very grateful to share the Holy Eucharist with these wonderful people.

One of the most interesting things I saw at that Mass was that maybe 1/4 of the women were wearing some kind of head covering, head scarf when Mass began. But when it was time to go up and receive Eucharist all these scarves appeared from purses and pockets and all the women covered their heads. I pulled mine on at that point. About half the parish knelt and the other half stood at certain times. I was told this partly comes from having been two separate parishes which combined into one in very recent years. Also the passing of the Peace was interesting, beginning at the altar passed front to back, person to person. I’d seen a YouTube about it, otherwise I would not have known what was going on. I’d like to see it done that way in Latin churches. 🙂
 
Yes, indeed, Syriac is lovely, but it’s 99.9999% sure that the language used was Arabic, not Syriac.
Do you know of a Syriac or Greek DL in the Chicago (west) area? Actually anything but English will do. 🙂
 
I had a somewhat similar experience at the Mass, as they refer to the Eucharistic liturgy at their parish, of an Assyrian Chaldean Catholic Church. I went to what I was told was the more English of the two Masses. That turned out to mean the Holy Gospel was proclaimed a second time, in English. Except for that every thing was in Arabic …

The Mass at the Assyrian Chaldean Catholic Church was in many ways also somewhat like a Roman Rite Mass. I loved the music, and even though I could not follow the words I was very happy being there and very grateful to share the Holy Eucharist with these wonderful people.
Despite some residual outward latinizations, the Chaldean Synod has done a remarkably good job in attempting to restore the liturgical practices of the Church. Of great note here is the official reversion to ad orientem celebration. 👍

While some of the service may well have been in Arabic, in a Chaldean church the bulk of it was no doubt done in Syriac (Eastern dialect). 🙂

To my knowledge (and one of our Chaldean members may correct me here), the music itself was likely wholly traditional, and most probably also sung in Syriac.
Also the passing of the Peace was interesting, beginning at the altar passed front to back, person to person. I’d seen a YouTube about it, otherwise I would not have known what was going on. I’d like to see it done that way in Latin churches. 🙂
A very similar custom of “passing the Peace” is also traditional among the Maronites. Unfortunately, though, in the post-conciliar world of Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinization, some parishes have de facto abandoned it in favor of the “hi, howzthefamily” hand-shake routine of the Latin Rite OF. 😦
 
Do you know of a Syriac or Greek DL in the Chicago (west) area? Actually anything but English will do. 🙂
(1) There are two Chaldean parishes: Saint Ephrem Church, and Mart Maryam.

(2) There is also Our Lady of Lebanon Maronite Church in Lombard, but I’m not sure of how liturgy is offered there, other than the dreaded versus populum.

(3) The Syro-Malankara Church has a mission in the area: Malankara Catholic Mission of Chicago

(4) The Syro-Malabar Diocese of St Thomas is also in Chicago, although they are very neo-latinized.

I’m not sure if the Syriac CC has a church in the Chicago area, but the Syriac OC does (St Peter’s in Northlake, though they may be another). Likewise the Armenian OC is present with several churches, but I don’t know about the CC. The Coptic OC is there as well, but not the CC. And of course the ACoE has a very strong presence in the Chicago area.
 
Do you know of a Syriac or Greek DL in the Chicago (west) area? Actually anything but English will do. 🙂
There is a pretty large Greek Orthodox community in Chicago. My experience with Greek Orthodox is *limited * and only in the US. I’m less often at a DL and more often at something like Vespers or maybe a presanctified Liturgy. In any case what I’ve experienced is Greek as the dominant liturgical language, what the clergy are praying, and then a second reading of readings in English and a repetition of the homily in English. The Our Father and the prayers before communion were in English. I’d encourage you to go to for any vespers or vigils they have. 🙂

I see that Saint Andrew Greek Orthodox Church is having their annual Greek Festival this weekend, July 10-11. OPA! 👍 The one at Saint Demetrios is in August . They also seem to have Saturday Matins at Saint Demetrios. I’m sorry to say the parishes in that Metropolis don’t seem to be much interested in websites. 😦
 
Despite some residual outward latinizations, the Chaldean Synod has done a remarkably good job in attempting to restore the liturgical practices of the Church. Of great note here is the official reversion to ad orientem celebration. 👍
I know the Chaldeans and Assyrians are very active and thriving out here in CA. St. Peter The Apostle Diocese for Chaldeans and Assyrians in Western U. S. A. was able to establish a Seminary here a couple of year ago, praise God! 👍
While some of the service may well have been in Arabic, in a Chaldean church the bulk of it was no doubt done in Syriac (Eastern dialect). 🙂
To my knowledge (and one of our Chaldean members may correct me here), the music itself was likely wholly traditional, and most probably also sung in Syriac.
Thanks for the correction. I might get it wrong again… :o

Speaking of Chaldean’s and this is really off topic… After almost five years without a bishop, the Chaldean priests and faithful of Erbil, Northern Iraq, are celebrating the ordination of Bishop Bashar Warda this past Saturday!

Axios, Axios, Axios! May God grant Bishop Bashar Warda many years in His service.

I’ll post that separately.
 
(1) There are two Chaldean parishes: Saint Ephrem Church, and Mart Maryam.

(2) There is also Our Lady of Lebanon Maronite Church in Lombard, but I’m not sure of how liturgy is offered there, other than the dreaded versus populum.

(3) The Syro-Malankara Church has a mission in the area: Malankara Catholic Mission of Chicago

(4) The Syro-Malabar Diocese of St Thomas is also in Chicago, although they are very neo-latinized.

I’m not sure if the Syriac CC has a church in the Chicago area, but the Syriac OC does (St Peter’s in Northlake, though they may be another). Likewise the Armenian OC is present with several churches, but I don’t know about the CC. The Coptic OC is there as well, but not the CC. And of course the ACoE has a very strong presence in the Chicago area.
Excellent. Thanks to you and 5Loaves.
 
Ah, my first Divine Liturgy was unpleasant. The singing was awful! I thought it would never end! (Christmas Eve). Too strange altogether.

However, months after that I went to a different Byzantine Catholic church and for me it was the start of a truly religious experience. I joined the choir and I also cantor now! I love it!!!

The only thing is: if the singing goes badly, then people will be put off. It’s a shame but it’s true. People are drawn in by beauty, so it’s important for this beauty to be maintained to a high standard.
 
Ah, my first Divine Liturgy was unpleasant. The singing was awful! I thought it would never end! (Christmas Eve). Too strange altogether.

However, months after that I went to a different Byzantine Catholic church and for me it was the start of a truly religious experience. I joined the choir and I also cantor now! I love it!!!

The only thing is: if the singing goes badly, then people will be put off. It’s a shame but it’s true. People are drawn in by beauty, so it’s important for this beauty to be maintained to a high standard.
Interesting story. What took you back, to another parish?

My parish has a very tiny choir, and we are just a tiny parish, period. Most of the time I think our choir does an admirable job. Once in a while they fall off the rails. Sometimes they’re absolutely stellar. 🙂 Because I know them all and feel such affection for them it’s all good for me. I’m always profoundly grateful for all they do to support our Liturgy. For visitors who might come on a “bad” day, hopefully other parts of the whole experience will speak to them.
 
We moved into a different parish. But I still visit that one, I even still cantor there as a fill-in. It’s a depressing situation, the cantor is not musically gifted, and the priest has problems with his own voice - everyone comments about it, but there’s nothing to be done.

A few years ago we got a new priest and he made us switch to the Green books - which makes the older people boiling mad. I was lucky enough to adapt well since I read music, but our regular cantor has trouble still so we really have to work on it. Father does not like “train wrecks” as he calls them.
 
Alex-
Thanks for posting such a lively account of your first Divine Liturgy. 🙂

Even though we have the same prayers, by and large, each Liturgy the density of the what the language seeks to convey is always unveiling another layer. I never grow tired of listening to the various CDs I have of Byzantine liturgical music. Our prayers are so beautiful. When the amount of incense sets off the smoke detectors in my church our priest says it’s the mark of a “successful liturgy”. 👍

I have many CDs of liturgical music - my favorite is the Divine Liturgy of St. James the Just. I can see his feast day celebration in Russia when I listen and feel the power that has me chanting with them.
 
I have many CDs of liturgical music - **my favorite is the Divine Liturgy of St. James the Just. ** I can see his feast day celebration in Russia when I listen and feel the power that has me chanting with them.
What CD do you have of it?

My favorite CDs change from week to week but I do absolutely love “Bright Sadness Orthodox Christian Rite of Burial”, the Panikhida in English, which if a wonderful CD from Holy Trinity in San Francisco. I recently got a Greek DL The Divine Liturgy In English by Cappella Romana (Cappella Romana LOL) which I’m loving. I have a number of CD that have 3 or 4 big favorites of mine like the Ukrainian carol 34. Christ Our Sun and Agni Parthene, Archangelski Glas/With the Voice of the Archangel and… 😃
 
Hello. Just wanted to add that I attended my first DL last week and loved it. (St. John the Baptist Cathedral, Munhall PA).
I hope you can see this - the dome of the cathedral.
pitt.edu/%7Elgk2/picts/domeicon.htm

I was a little surprised there wasn’t a choir - that I could tell - and no organ. There was much singing of course. I could only see one man in the loft. I especially loved how the cathedral bells rang at the consecration, and the prayer at the beginning of the liturgy of the Eucharist: …now leave all earthly cares behind. All the beauty and reverence of the old Latin mass, but in English.

I hope to go again, but I’m too attached to the Latin Mass (available to me every weekend) to make a change at my age :byzsoc: Praised be Jesus Christ!
 
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