My first Traditional Latin Mass

[brotherhrolf]

Well, Cat, along comes bro. once again repeating the same things he’s been saying for the last two years or more until I am blue in the face and frankly exhausted. For the nine hundreth and ninety-ninth time chant is not mysterious. It does not require special musical training. There is an entire corpus of plainsong chants available in the St. Gregory Hymnal some of which I was taught as early as the first grade. Get a hold of some old fogeys like myself in your parish (and not the ones who tell you right off that they didn’t understand a thing.) Do a little more extensive research than just seeking out those who adhere to your views.

We did understand Latin and I suspect that after four of five years, you would understand Latin too. It abounds with cognates in English. We had our missals. If one was schooled by nuns or brothers (as I was) the sheer power of repeating things over and over again form connections in one’s neural pathways. I doubt you would believe me but I can sit here 40 some odd years after and type from memory the Lord’s Prayer in Latin. I can tell you how to pronounce the words. I can sing the plainsong setting we learned 50 plus years ago and, if you’ld like, I can point out the cognates. Pater = father=padre=pere=vater and so on and so forth. To be precise, it is actually an Indo-European word and not the least bit mysterious.

Yes, indeedy, the bill of goods we were sold when I was a teenager was that Latin and chant was to have pride of place. Which is why in the space of less than two years in 1967- 68 we went from solemnly chanting the Pater Noster in plainsong to bouncing around to the merry strumming of the guitars singing a hootenany version of Our Father who art in heaven hallow-wed be thy name. Thy kindgom come (thump, boom, stomp), thy will be done (thump, boom, stomp), on Earth as it is in Hea -a-a-ven. Parce Domine it wasn’t.

You brand people with traditional leanings as if this is something that we just discovered since the Motu Proprio. I have waited forty years and I am still waiting because my bishop merely “acknowledged” the Motu Proprio which as a career civil servant I recognize it for what it is - a kiss of death.

Cat, frankly, I simply don’t understand why you feel the need to constantly challenge those with traditional leanings. In September I will celebrate my 58th year as a Catholic. Thirteen years of Catholic education - the majority of which before Vatican II. Twenty years of singing in a cathedral choir in which I have seen more than my share of abuses to the point where I and many of my fellow choristers refused to sing at diocesan events.

No one is asking you to embrace traditional Catholic worship and I do not believe that the vast majority of us wish to see Cat forced to worship in a way she finds uncomfortable. We would not seek to do to you what has been done to us in the last 40 years.

I want to remind you of something. I learned Catholicism at the feet of my mother and father - my aunts and uncles - my neighbors (10 of the 14 households on my block were Catholic). I saw my parent’s generation marginalized to the Vigil Mass on Saturday afternoon to avoid a whole bunch of the things you value in the NO. You might want to give some thought to how the “Greatest Generation” felt as I have. They’re mostly gone but I repeat again that not all of us folks who were teenagers in 1967 embraced the “New Mass”. We submitted to the magesterium.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Why do we need four different Eucharistic Prayers? Why do we need a Eucharistic Prayer for children, the poor, the refugees, etc, etc.

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What’s intrinsically wrong with having different anaphorai? Eastern Churches have for centuries, though some are directed to be used for different seasons and times. Others are in some churches at the discretion of the Priest.

Furthermore, the Mozarabic Mass requires what boils down to a different anaphora every day of the year. Did you know that?

There are not, so far as I know anaphorae for refugees or the poor. Where did you get the idea that there were? And I’m under the impression that anaphorae for children (at least in the USA) will be withdrawn upon the publication of the new English edition.

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The Mass should be, in the Latin Rite, the same wherever you go.

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Why? The Latin Rite never was “the same wherever you go”–or went before 1962.

Did you actually think it WAS the same?

It wasn’t always said in the same language. For centuries, the Pian Mass was celebrated in Slavonic in certain dioceses of Croatia and in Chinese in some pleaces of China.

Did you know that?

Good bishop, yes, I knew that. I also know that as a sailor in the United States Navy in 1972 armed with my two years of high school Spanish, I went off by myself in Rota, Spain. I walked into a Catholic church around three in the afternoon. A priest came out and asked me if he could help. In my halting Spanish, I said no. I was simply visiting and that I was a Catholic and that I had been an altar boy.

He said to me “Introibo ad altare Dei” to which I responded “Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam”. Sorry Bishop. Father gave me the grand tour of the sacristy, the tombs under the altar, the Goya paintings, etc.

Latin was a unifying language.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Whoa!

Not agreeing does not give you the right to say things like this!

You do not know what is in that man’s heart, nor do you know how God may be calling him.

If you need a battleground for the traditional versus the new, start a thread for that.

It’s a perfectly legitimate question to ask. The poster to whom Cat was responding is as in the wrong as Cardinal Martini, the retired and very liberal Archbishop of Milan, who said that he would NEVER offer the EF. Not acceptable.

It also seems VERY contrary to the cover letter which HH Pope Benedict XVI issued to the bishops of the world regarding the Motu Proprio, contrary to his expressed desires. If the young man cannot bring himself in line with that, I certainly hope that it will be discerned by those in authority that we don’t need that kind of priest in the Church at all.

"I now come to the positive reason which motivated my decision to issue this Motu Proprio updating that of 1988. It is a matter of coming to an interior reconciliation in the heart of the Church. Looking back over the past, to the divisions which in the course of the centuries have rent the Body of Christ, one continually has the impression that, at critical moments when divisions were coming about, not enough was done by the Church’s leaders to maintain or regain reconciliation and unity. One has the impression that omissions on the part of the Church have had their share of blame for the fact that these divisions were able to harden. This glance at the past imposes an obligation on us today: to make every effort to unable for all those who truly desire unity to remain in that unity or to attain it anew. I think of a sentence in the Second Letter to the Corinthians, where Paul writes: "Our mouth is open to you, Corinthians; our heart is wide. You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted in your own affections. In return … widen your hearts also!" (2 Cor 6:11-13). Paul was certainly speaking in another context, but his exhortation can and must touch us too, precisely on this subject. Let us generously open our hearts and make room for everything that the faith itself allows.

There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture. What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place. Needless to say, in order to experience full communion,** the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books. The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness."**

 

[Cat]

Cat, frankly, I simply don’t understand why you feel the need to constantly challenge those with traditional leanings.

No one is asking you to embrace traditional Catholic worship and I do not believe that the vast majority of us wish to see Cat forced to worship in a way she finds uncomfortable. We would not seek to do to you what has been done to us in the last 40 years.

Brotherholf, read more carefully, please.

This young man, who is discerning the priesthood, said that he was repulsed by the NO. You BET I challenged him, not because he prefers the TLM and “traditional leanings,” but because HE ATTACKED THAT WHICH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH APPROVES OF!

I challenged him to show respect for the Catholic Church and ALL of its teachings, not just the ones he likes. Do you fault me for that?

Do you think a priest of the Catholic Church should be allowed to pick and choose which teachings he will adhere to, and be “repulsed” by the others? I do not agree. I may be a Janey-Come-Lately to the Church, but I know better than that. We embrace ALL the teachings of the Church, not just our preferences. Am I correct?

A priest who is allowed to accept only those teachings that he likes will possibly force me (or you) to worship in a way that I (or you) find uncomfortable.

And brotherholf, hear this well: ** if Holy Mother Church were to ban the OF Mass and establish ONLY the Latin Mass, and ban all forms of music during Mass except chant, I would humbly and gratefully accept the decision of Holy Mother Church and worship Christ in the way that the Holy Spirit has led the Church to follow.** I would NOT sit in the pew and be “uncomfortable,” and I would not mourn for that which the Church declared no longer in use. OK? Got it this time? Thank you for listening.

 

[OraProNobisIHM]

Do you think a priest of the Catholic Church should be allowed to pick and choose which teachings he will adhere to, and be “repulsed” by the others? I do not agree. I may be a Janey-Come-Lately to the Church, but I know better than that. We embrace ALL the teachings of the Church, not just our preferences. Am I correct?

Um, in a word:
Yes.

Please see:
The FSSP
ICKSP
The Transalpine Redemptorists on Papa Stronsay
The Franciscans of the Immaculate (more or less)
And the Trappists in Germany (Marienfeld? I forget exactly).

So, yeah, priests can “pick and choose” which Mass they will say.

Teachings and doctrines - no, they cannot be picked and chosen.

But, as the proponents of the NO will always say…
The form of Mass is not a matter of the deposit of Faith, nor is it doctrine.


Enjoy your weekend. I’ll be in Kiev.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Um, in a word:
Yes.

Please see:
The FSSP
ICKSP
The Transalpine Redemptorists on Papa Stronsay
The Franciscans of the Immaculate (more or less)
And the Trappists in Germany (Marienfeld? I forget exactly).

So, yeah, priests can “pick and choose” which Mass they will say.

Teachings and doctrines - no, they cannot be picked and chosen.

But, as the proponents of the NO will always say…
The form of Mass is not a matter of the deposit of Faith, nor is it doctrine.


Enjoy your weekend. I’ll be in Kiev.

We’ll see how that works out as the MP is more and more (or less and less) implemented. Your take is not the mind of the Holy Father, clearly.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Brotherholf, read more carefully, please.

This young man, who is discerning the priesthood, said that he was repulsed by the NO. You BET I challenged him, not because he prefers the TLM and “traditional leanings,” but because HE ATTACKED THAT WHICH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH APPROVES OF!

I challenged him to show respect for the Catholic Church and ALL of its teachings, not just the ones he likes. Do you fault me for that?

Do you think a priest of the Catholic Church should be allowed to pick and choose which teachings he will adhere to, and be “repulsed” by the others? I do not agree. I may be a Janey-Come-Lately to the Church, but I know better than that. We embrace ALL the teachings of the Church, not just our preferences. Am I correct?

Indeed we do but yet I sit back…Within my living memory, Cat…I have stood against the NO as it was implemented… I had to get permission from my local geographic parish in 1983 to join the cathedral parish so that my son in the womb could be baptized at the cathedral. I had to go to my pastor and explain why I prefered the cathedral parish which kept the Latin I knew as a child…

Within a week I received a letter which stated in no uncertain terms that if I died, the local geographic parish would not respond. That I could not be buried in the parish cemetary (not that I would because my family had a plot in New Orleans ). I know what I believe and I have always kept faith with my beliefs. Not everyone in 1967 embraced what happened.

A priest who is allowed to accept only those teachings that he likes will possibly force me (or you) to worship in a way that I (or you) find uncomfortable.

And brotherholf, hear this well: if Holy Mother Church were to ban the OF Mass and establish ONLY the Latin Mass, and ban all forms of music during Mass except chant, I would humbly and gratefully accept the decision of Holy Mother Church and worship Christ in the way that the Holy Spirit has led the Church to follow. I would NOT sit in the pew and be “uncomfortable,” and I would not mourn for that which the Church declared no longer in use. OK? Got it this time? Thank you for listening.

Cat, as fulsomely as you defend what has happened in the last 40 years so too do I pine for that which was lost 40 years ago. I saw my parents, my aunts and uncles, and my neighbors marginalized. I saw that which I had grown up with ripped out and torn apart in the space of two years.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that those comments were well out-of-place -particularly for someone considering the priesthood. I don’t know where the young people who have discovered the TLM have picked up their stridency. It is not in Baton Rouge, Louisiana or New Orleans, Louisiana. I am as marginalized today as I was 40 years ago. Bottom line…I have driven 25 miles one way since 1983 to attend a reverent NO parish.

I also have to say that I find your phrase “mourn for that which the Church declared no longer in use” to be highly insensitive. Whether you like it or not, whether you parse your “investigations” with folks of my generation…baby boomers…who wanted the guitars,etc…I didn’t. I wasn’t the only only. We have prayed for forty years and WE HAVE SUBMITTED TO THE MAGESTERIUM FOR FORTY YEARS.

 

[Walden]

For the nine hundreth and ninety-ninth time chant is not mysterious. It does not require special musical training.

I’m glad you pointed this out. My parish is a strictly OF parish, but we use chant (in Latin no less) for much of the Ordinary of the Mass. MOST of the choir is under 16 with a few under 10. It is simply beautiful to hear those little voices sing the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.

We are a small parish, and if we can do it…anyone can!

 

[Cat]

I’m glad you pointed this out. My parish is a strictly OF parish, but we use chant (in Latin no less) for much of the Ordinary of the Mass. MOST of the choir is under 16 with a few under 10. It is simply beautiful to hear those little voices sing the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.

We are a small parish, and if we can do it…anyone can!

Do you have a teacher who taught the teens?

Or did they just start doing it themselves? Where did they buy the books? Did they access the church budget themselves to buy those books? Or maybe since they’re teens, they went online and found free copies of various chants? Do they have an instrumentalist who runs through the chants with them, or do they sight-read the chants, or do they do them by ear from CDs?

I can’t believe they just started doing it, but if they did, more power to them.

There is a Latin Mass said daily and several time on Sunday at the Oratory in our city, and there is a choir there. So even though the teens of our city have plenty of opportunity to learn, that choir is not full of people. What I’m trying to say is that there isn’t a lot of interest in our city in chant. It may have something to do with the fact that Willowcreek is within easy driving distance, and there is a Willowcreek plant in our city. What that means is that the teenagers are exposed to professionally-done contemporary Christian music, so it doesn’t sound wimpy or fluffy, it sounds awesome. That could be why the Catholic parishes in our city, including the Latin Mass oratory, have a hard time interesting people in more ancient forms of music.

But if there were a good teacher…that would probably attract people.

 

[Cat]

Cat, as fulsomely as you defend what has happened in the last 40 years so too do I pine for that which was lost 40 years ago. I saw my parents, my aunts and uncles, and my neighbors marginalized. I saw that which I had grown up with ripped out and torn apart in the space of two years.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that those comments were well out-of-place -particularly for someone considering the priesthood. I don’t know where the young people who have discovered the TLM have picked up their stridency. It is not in Baton Rouge, Louisiana or New Orleans, Louisiana. I am as marginalized today as I was 40 years ago. Bottom line…I have driven 25 miles one way since 1983 to attend a reverent NO parish.

I also have to say that I find your phrase “mourn for that which the Church declared no longer in use” to be highly insensitive. Whether you like it or not, whether you parse your “investigations” with folks of my generation…baby boomers…who wanted the guitars,etc…I didn’t. I wasn’t the only only. We have prayed for forty years and WE HAVE SUBMITTED TO THE MAGESTERIUM FOR FORTY YEARS.

You are way too sensitive, brotherhrolf. I wasn’t being sarcastic and I wasn’t referring to YOU or others like you at all when I made the statement about mourning for that which the Church declared no longer in use." I was just trying to be specific in describing the attitude that I would adopt if the Church decided to establish Latin Mass only.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Do you have a teacher who taught the teens?

Or did they just start doing it themselves? Where did they buy the books? Did they access the church budget themselves to buy those books? Or maybe since they’re teens, they went online and found free copies of various chants? Do they have an instrumentalist who runs through the chants with them, or do they sight-read the chants, or do they do them by ear from CDs?

I can’t believe they just started doing it, but if they did, more power to them.

gutenberg.org/ebooks/23673

The St. Gregory Hymnal - in the pews in most Catholic churches up till 1967 - 68,
Downloadable and not copyrighted. I recomend #161 - the plainsong version of Jesu Dulcis Memoria to start off with. That’s what we learned in grade school long before we were even teenagers.

I was just trying to be specific in describing the attitude that I would adopt if the Church decided to establish Latin Mass only.

I see. Then perhaps you can see how I felt and how my parents and neighbors felt forty years ago when the bottom dropped out along with Latin. Or how I and my fellow cathedral choristers feel today because the Motu Proprio was merely “acknowledged” in my diocese. The likelihood that HMC will go back to the TLM only borders on the realms of Science Fiction or Faerie. The vast majority of my parents’ generation are gone and at 57, those of us who are of an age to remember what liturgy was like before 1967 - well, the odds are stacked decidedly in your favor, Cat.

But I shall march on and will counter the claims that “we didn’t know what the Latin meant” and I will counter the claims that Gregorian chant is arcane and difficult.

Perhaps I can arrange for Cardinal Fang and the Spanish Inquisition to make a surprise visit here. It might lighten the mood where we see a dreaded “traditional Catholic” behind every tree.

 

[brotherhrolf]

cathedral-singers-the-richard-proulx-con-mp3-download.kohit.net//155007/mp3player.php?single=1&tellafriend=http://Cathedral-Singers-The-Richard-Proulx-con-mp3-download.kohit.net//155007&id=155007

In my mind’s ear I hear us, the assembled grades of OLPH in Kenner, La. in 1958 in the cafeteria with Sr. Mary Maurice on the upright piano plunking out the notes. Learned by rote. Over and over. Arcane? Difficult?

Oh! gee! the organ is playing one of the hit songs of the 12th century - Douce, dame jolie. Wanna bet I can sing that too?

 

[Walden]

Do you have a teacher who taught the teens?

Or did they just start doing it themselves? Where did they buy the books? Did they access the church budget themselves to buy those books? Or maybe since they’re teens, they went online and found free copies of various chants? Do they have an instrumentalist who runs through the chants with them, or do they sight-read the chants, or do they do them by ear from CDs?

I can’t believe they just started doing it, but if they did, more power to them.

There is a Latin Mass said daily and several time on Sunday at the Oratory in our city, and there is a choir there. So even though the teens of our city have plenty of opportunity to learn, that choir is not full of people. What I’m trying to say is that there isn’t a lot of interest in our city in chant. It may have something to do with the fact that Willowcreek is within easy driving distance, and there is a Willowcreek plant in our city. What that means is that the teenagers are exposed to professionally-done contemporary Christian music, so it doesn’t sound wimpy or fluffy, it sounds awesome. That could be why the Catholic parishes in our city, including the Latin Mass oratory, have a hard time interesting people in more ancient forms of music.

But if there were a good teacher…that would probably attract people.

We use the St. Michael’s Hymnal. The chants are in the front. Of course, we have adults in the choir, and I’m sure they practice. The difference maybe is that they grow up hearing it. We don’t have a paid “music minister” or (insert other title). That’s just what church music is to them. The point I was making is that it isn’t any harder to sing chant (I think it’s easier - melodies are less complex…forgive me, I’m not a music person) than any other hymns.

And as far as teenagers being interested in it, I’m sure if it was just an oratory here many teens wouldn’t be there either. We are an ordinary parish though. This is where they go to church with their families. To us, it’s not ancient. It’s what we sing every Sunday. No EF in sight by the way…you’d need to drive at least an hour.

I don’t know what Willowcreek is, but if it’s like the “Six Flags over Jesus” (sorry if it isn’t, just sounded like a megachurch) we have down here, then I bet it is a very well done stage show. Young people get caught up in that sometimes down here because it’s where all their friends go.

 

[Cat]

We use the St. Michael’s Hymnal. The chants are in the front. Of course, we have adults in the choir, and I’m sure they practice. The difference maybe is that they grow up hearing it. We don’t have a paid “music minister” or (insert other title). That’s just what church music is to them. The point I was making is that it isn’t any harder to sing chant (I think it’s easier - melodies are less complex…forgive me, I’m not a music person) than any other hymns.

And as far as teenagers being interested in it, I’m sure if it was just an oratory here many teens wouldn’t be there either. We are an ordinary parish though. This is where they go to church with their families. To us, it’s not ancient. It’s what we sing every Sunday. No EF in sight by the way…you’d need to drive at least an hour.

I don’t know what Willowcreek is, but if it’s like the “Six Flags over Jesus” (sorry if it isn’t, just sounded like a megachurch) we have down here, then I bet it is a very well done stage show. Young people get caught up in that sometimes down here because it’s where all their friends go.

Willowcreek is THE megachurch, in Barrington, Illinois (a far western suburb of Chicago). Here is a link: willowcreek.org/home1.aspx

Over 20,000 attend Sunday seeker services.

The church plant in our city is attended by almost a tenth of our city’s population each Sunday. Over 10,000 people attend the plant, which meets on two different campuses. They purchased a mall in which to build their community, and then purchased a banquet hall for their auxiliary campus to hold the overflow.

Obvious these churches are not the Catholic Church and therefore not the whole truth, but I won’t criticize them. Both of them are actively involved in many good works in their cities. In our city, our Catholic parish occasionally sends volunteers to help them with some of their good projects that help the poor.

 

[Cat]

We use the St. Michael’s Hymnal. The chants are in the front. Of course, we have adults in the choir, and I’m sure they practice. The difference maybe is that they grow up hearing it. We don’t have a paid “music minister” or (insert other title). That’s just what church music is to them. The point I was making is that it isn’t any harder to sing chant (I think it’s easier - melodies are less complex…forgive me, I’m not a music person) than any other hymns.

And as far as teenagers being interested in it, I’m sure if it was just an oratory here many teens wouldn’t be there either. We are an ordinary parish though. This is where they go to church with their families. To us, it’s not ancient. It’s what we sing every Sunday. No EF in sight by the way…you’d need to drive at least an hour.

I don’t know what Willowcreek is, but if it’s like the “Six Flags over Jesus” (sorry if it isn’t, just sounded like a megachurch) we have down here, then I bet it is a very well done stage show. Young people get caught up in that sometimes down here because it’s where all their friends go.

Walden, I AM a music person (pianist, classically-trained, very active in accompanying work in my city), and I’m sorry, buddy, but I disagree that chant is easier to sing than hymns. We don’t do much of it in any of the parishes where I play the piano, but when we do a little chant (usually at Lent and Advent), I think most of the people in the congregation younger than 40, and I, too (over 50!) are totally lost. It sounds like a herd of dying cats.

I personally find the lack of regular rhythm and melody very difficult to follow, extremely difficult. Whenever there is lack of rhythm, Westerners like me are at a loss. We are used to tempos, meter, time signature, and beat, and when these things are not there, yes, it is more difficult for us to sing.

It is especially difficult if there is no music for the sight-readers to read. I am simply awful at singing by ear. I rely heavily on reading music. Others who sing by ear have a difficult time with chant because there’s nothing regular to latch onto, and so they forget what they just heard and tend to just warble on any old note they please. Honestly, it sounds like the Pentecostal prayer meeting at my husband’s former Assemblies of God Church!

Now don’t misunderstand me. Of course we could probably pick it up with a little practice.

But I think that in my city, at least, there seems to be very little interest. A few months ago, the music minister at my parish did Mozart’s Requiem (which is not chant, but classical music). He had to basically draft people to sing in it! It was like pulling teeth to get enough people together to sing this great work. And only a few teens, and they were homeschooled kids.

Oh, well. Perhaps if the right personality moves into the city and begins spreading the word about the joys of chant, it’ll catch on.

 

[system]

As the OP of this thread, I’m surprised that such heated posts have popped up after I said I really enjoyed my TLM.

But I’ll jump in again anyway.

Cat, I don’t know why you are so against a mass I really liked? I didn’t drag you in with me:shrug:

Willowcreek is THE megachurch, Over 20,000 attend Sunday seeker services.

I’m not really impressed - there’s lots of “religu - tainment” places to go. And if the truth is represented by sheer numbers, we’d all be muslim.

Obvious these churches are not the Catholic Church and therefore not the whole truth, but I won’t criticize them.

I will - they’re convincing 20 thousand a week that feel-good emotionalism is all you can get out of religion.

I read your profile and see that you became a Catholic just a few years ago. It is interesting because your reaction is much like my wife’s reaction, but she has been a lifelong Catholic and was taught by progressive nuns that are angry they can’t be priests. So while my feeling about the mass was that it was beautiful, sacred, and uplifting, her reaction was: “Glad we got rid of all THAT stuff!”

Following wiser examples than myself, I tried to gently correct her that, “we were never supposed to get rid of that at all! The V2 decision was to have both. we should be able to find and attend masses like this easily.”

 

[Walden]

Cat, I think I mentioned in my post that this is a regular thing. I can imagine that if you only did a little chant during Advent and Lent then everyone would rightfully lost.

I suppose it is more difficult, but we do it every Sunday. All I am saying is that it isn’t foreign to us. I was a little embarrassed when I went to another parish and they sang the Gloria in English. I never learned the English words (at least well enough to sing without looking).

 

[Cat]

As the OP of this thread, I’m surprised that such heated posts have popped up after I said I really enjoyed my TLM.

But I’ll jump in again anyway.

Cat, I don’t know why you are so against a mass I really liked? I didn’t drag you in with me:shrug:

I’m not really impressed - there’s lots of “religu - tainment” places to go. And if the truth is represented by sheer numbers, we’d all be muslim.

I will - they’re convincing 20 thousand a week that feel-good emotionalism is all you can get out of religion.

I read your profile and see that you became a Catholic just a few years ago. It is interesting because your reaction is much like my wife’s reaction, but she has been a lifelong Catholic and was taught by progressive nuns that are angry they can’t be priests. So while my feeling about the mass was that it was beautiful, sacred, and uplifting, her reaction was: “Glad we got rid of all THAT stuff!”

Following wiser examples than myself, I tried to gently correct her that, “we were never supposed to get rid of that at all! The V2 decision was to have both. we should be able to find and attend masses like this easily.”

What!!! Where did you get the idea that I’m against the TLM!!!

**Please post the quotes from my posts in which I made comments against the Latin Mass. **

If I said anything to this effect, I apologize profusely. I am NOT against the Latin Mass at all!!! God forbid that I should be against something that Holy Mother Church has pronounced good and holy and acceptable!!!

I’m very serious. Please post the quotes from my posts so that I may apologize specifically. I’m really really sorry if I said anything against the Latin Mass. I promise to take myself OFF of Catholic Answers Forum for a period of time and spend the equivalent amoung of time praying if I indeed have said anything against the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in either form.

A few minutes later–I have reviewed my comments in this thread, and I see nothing that implies any criticism of the Latin Mass. Quite the opposite. Perhaps something about my writing has confused you?

 

[Indyann]

Cat, I think I mentioned in my post that this is a regular thing. I can imagine that if you only did a little chant during Advent and Lent then everyone would rightfully lost.

I suppose it is more difficult, but we do it every Sunday. All I am saying is that it isn’t foreign to us. I was a little embarrassed when I went to another parish and they sang the Gloria in English. I never learned the English words (at least well enough to sing without looking).

If you never learned the English words, how in the world did you even know what you were singing? Just curious.

 

[Walden]

If you never learned the English words, how in the world did you even know what you were singing? Just curious.

Like I said…well enough to sing without looking in the Hymnal. The wording was different. It might have been the infamous Mass of Creation by Haugen. There are apparently various incarnations.