My first Traditional Latin Mass

[maurin]

Dear Maurin, my good friend,

You are a very spiritual person, and I trust God will lead you as a Shepherd does His lambs, into verdant pastures! Now that may take many different forms, for each person is unique, and hears God at their own level. My guidance customarily comes through the daily scriptures, and it is so uncanny how many times when I am going through something, the answer comes within a day or so, through God’s Word. It comes as confirmation of something that preceded, for if it came prior to it, I would not understand. That is why I would miss hearing them, as I mentioned above.

But I can sense already that for you it may come from the homily such as you heard today. And if you hear only two readings, that is not a lesser good, because God will speak through them in a powerful way. He is not limited – so as long as you are being spiritually nourished, I pray you will go to your new parish as often as possible.

I would also be remiss if I did not express my grateful thanks for your kindness in supporting me. I am still overwhelmed! Your love in action is a beautiful witness to your spirit!

Carole

Carole,

I support you because I know your motivation is the same as all good Christians’: love for Our Father, His Son our Brother, and His Holy Spirit.

My perspective is that when you are accused of attacking Traditionalism, it is in fact the un-Christian attitude of many Traditionalists, and not Traditionalism that you are criticizing. There is an undercurrent of a sort of protestantism apparent to me in some Traditionalists who claim obedience as their by-word, yet stand defiant to the Vicar of Christ on earth. I think some forget that Jesus said that which Peter binds on earth is bound in heaven, and that which he loosens on earth is loosened in heaven. They fear that the gates of hell will prevail against the Church despite Christ’s promise to the contrary.

It is not up to us to make any statements that are definitive. The vast majority of us do not have the benefit of the Sacrament of Ordination which changes the recipient ontologically to some extent. The Sacraments render us ‘more so,’ if you will. More human, more responsive to Grace, more responsible for how we respond to that Grace.

I am not saying that one should not express what they are thinking. A forum, by definition I think, is a place to do just that. I just can’t believe that on a Catholic Forum some–Traditionalists and the not–behave as if they are in the amphitheater of ancient times. Only it is the Christians who have become the lions, instead of being thrown to the lions. (I wonder what St. Irenaeus would make of that, He who insisted and prayed to become ground like wheat in the lions’ teeth.)

“Forget not to share love, for some have entertained angels unaware.”

I repeat: My name is Maurin. I am a Traditionalist. I wish to see a return to where we came from.

 

[ReConverted]

I repeat: My name is Maurin. I am a Traditionalist. I wish to see a return to where we came from.

I am extremely happy for you Maurin!

I have only recently returned to the Church, and attending the TLM is a high priority for me.

 

[AJV]

My thick-skinned friend, Joysong!!! May St. Michael the Archangel keep you safe from the attacks you suffer!

AJV has answered your question, and I am happy that he understood, it seems, that there was no malintent behind your question.

Don’t know maurin how much was due to understanding and how much due to a desire to go to sleep quickly. But I did think that the question could have been phrased more tactfully.

 

[maurin]

Don’t know maurin how much was due to understanding and how much due to a desire to go to sleep quickly. But I did think that the question could have been phrased more tactfully.

Are you “across the pond” as they say?

Maybe I should have that you are a gentleman and phrased your response as a gentleman would!!!

The same way that you tactfully state your opinion.

Thank you my brother in Jesus’ Sacred Heart.

maurin

 

[TNT]

I was very surprised at how comfortable I was.

…
I was a little surprised that there were no readings from the Old Testament, nor a Psalm.
…
I have ordered a Traditional Missal that one poster recommended to me on another thread, so it will be nice to be able to follow the readings.
…

When you get that Missal things will be noticed that you miss when you only have the Ordinary of the TLM in the Red Misselette.
Let’s see what exactly is in today’s Mass PROPERS. Remember, you hear those “extra” readings in the NO Mass PROPERS which are voiced aloud in the vernacular.
So:
Here we Have the TLM Propers for Sun. Jan 28:
Traditional Propers for the Fourth Sunday After the Epiphany

Vestments: Green

INTROIT
** Psalm 96: 7, 8**
ADORE GOD, all you His angels: Sion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Juda rejoiced. Ps. 96, 1. The Lord hath reigned; let the earth rejoice: let many islands be glad. V. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

…
EPISTLE
** Romans 13: 8-10**
BRETHREN, owe no man any thing, but to love one another; for he that loveth his neighbour hath fulfilled the law. For thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is comprised in this word, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The love of our neighbour worketh no evil. Love, therefore, is the fulfilling of the law.

GRADUAL
** Psalm 101: 16, 17**
THE GENTILES shall fear Thy name, O Lord, and all the kings of the earth Thy glory. V. For the Lord hath built up Sion, and He shall be seen in His majesty.

…
angelqueen.org
GOSPEL
** Matthew 8: 23-27**
AT THAT time, when Jesus entered into the ship, His disciples followed Him. And behold a great tempest arose in the sea, so that the ship was covered with waves, but He was asleep. And they came to Him and awaked Him, saying, Lord, save us, we perish. And Jesus saith to them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up, He commanded the winds and the sea, and there came a great calm. But the men wondered, saying, What manner of man is this, for the winds and the sea obey Him?
OFFERTORY
** Psalm 117: 16, 17**
THE RIGHT hand of the Lord hath wrought strength, the right hand of the Lord hath exalted me: I shall not die, but live, and shall declare the works of the Lord.
…
COMMUNION
** LUKE 4:22**
THEY ALL wondered at these things, which proceeded from the mouth of God.
…​

Notice 3+ Pslam readings + 2 Gospel readings (1 in the Communion).
No OT readings this Sunday, but often there are.​

BTW:
Historically, the “Hebrew Scriptures” never include the Deuterocononicals as the Hebrew version of the OT abandoned them.
So, Catholic OT would be much closer to the fact. “Hebrew Scriptures” could be taken as a tacit denial of the Deuterocanonicals.
That’s why Martin Luther used only the Jamnia “Hebrew Scriptures” & not the Greek Septuagint OT that the Catholic Church & her Apostles used.​

Now, welcome to the “Spirit” of Traditional Catholicism! Her Spirit IS revealed best in the TLM.春日野结衣免费观看,卡一卡二卡三免费网站,日本欧美成人高清电影,亚洲国产在线2020最新

 

[maurin]

wow…thanks!!

I definitely missed most of that today, but the second Gospel reading during Communion I did notice and enjoy!

thanks for posting that.

when I receive the Missal I ordered,maybe you can go over it a little with me?

maurin

 

[Cranch]

I was a little surprised that there were no readings from the Old Testament, nor a Psalm.

maurin - I am very happy for your experience. I have been attending a TLM since July and have also experienced a special reverence. About the Psalms: when you get your new missal you’ll be able to see, in addition to the readings, the other changeable prayers (or Propers). These are more often than not taken from the Psalms. As an example, today’s Introit was from Psalm 96, the Gradual from Psalm 101, the Alleluia from Psalm 96, and the Offertory from Psalm 117. Did the priest begin by sprinkling the congregation with holy water? If so it was a solemn Mass and began with the Asperges Me. The first line is verse 9 of Psalm 50: *Thou shalt sprinkle me, O Lord, with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed; Thou shalt wash me, and I shall become whiter than snow. *And of course the preparatory prayers at the foot of the altar begin with the recitation of Psalm 42, *Judica Me: **…And I will go unto the altar of God; to God Who giveth joy to my youth. *I just love the poetry of the Psalms! *
*

 

[Cranch]

Didn’t see your post while I was writing, TNT. Sorry for some repetition.

 

[trc121805]

Anamchara,

My dh has a very old children’s Missal that was his Fathers when he was young, it’s so beautiful…old and tattered but leather and has the Latin along side English. Now would this little Missal be pretty much the same as you would see today in a TLM?

The Latin/English parts of the Mass should be the same. If the missal has the Sunday readings included, they too would be the same as the ones used now in the TLM. From what I’ve been able to figure out there wasn’t that much that changed prior to the 1962 missal, except for some major changes to the Holy Week liturgies around 1955.

Many of us who attend the TLM who are not fortunate enough to have an old missal that’s been handed down have obtained our missals from e-Bay or second hand stores.

Jennifer

 

[palmas85]

Maurin, I’m sorry I missed this thread, I just reply in another thread to you about your experience. I am very happy it went well my friend.

The more I read the more I honestly pray that the TLM is offered more for those want this and that the Pope will allow it.

Your journey is turning into an education for me.

Palmas, that is very interesting…I did not know the readings were different.

My dh has a very old children’s Missal that was his Fathers when he was young, it’s so beautiful…old and tattered but leather and has the Latin along side English. Now would this little Missal be pretty much the same as you would see today in a TLM?

The Traditional Mass as in the Indult is required to use the Missal that was in use in 1962. If the Missal that you have is from 1962 or before you should be all right. There were some changes made around 1950 and others in I think 1955 or so, but I do believe the readings were the same. I checked some at random from my trusty old 45 St Andrews and they dovetail with the 62 Missals so what you have is probably appropriate.

 

[palmas85]

Palmas,

When one authors a post or any other work that will be read by all types of people, one chooses terminilogy that is easily understood. Not everyone is a catechist, as you are, and not everyone would know what the Hebrew scriptures are. Yet everyone will easily understand my meaning if I say Old Testament readings. To condescending label my words as you did reveals a heart that does not fit in with our second reading today, does it?

Fisheaters like to bite on bigger worms than this, Palmas. I prefer nightcrawler harnesses.

I still don’t know what you mean. I simply asked what you meant when you referred to N.O. people in some of your earlier posts, thats all. As far as fisheaters, I love seafood, don’'t you? But then again being from the Philippines and raised in New Orleans, I guess thats only natural.

 

[AJV]

The Traditional Mass as in the Indult is required to use the Missal that was in use in 1962. If the Missal that you have is from 1962 or before you should be all right. There were some changes made around 1950 and others in I think 1955 or so, but I do believe the readings were the same. I checked some at random from my trusty old 45 St Andrews and they dovetail with the 62 Missals so what you have is probably appropriate.

The change in 1950 only affected the Easter Vigil- perhaps you meant the changes in the 1953 editio typica of the Roman Missal? They included marking of Proper Gospels, changes in the Prayer of St. Ambrose and other preparatory prayers underwent title changes[mostly changing “Oratio” to “Preces”] , amendation of various rubrics, the rubrics for the ferial Masses of Advent previously appearing only at the First Sunday in Advent were inserted for all Sundays, the rubrics for the asperges and blessing of the water were revised, the rubrics for Candlemass and Ash Wednesday were enlarged. The only textual change that I know of is in the Introit for the Octave Day of Easter a.k.a. Low Sunday which before the revision read:

Quasi modo geniti infantes, alleluia: rationabiles, sine dolac…

Which became

Quasi modo geniti infantes, alleluia: rationabile, sine dolac…

The other changes were made in 1955/6. Battedy had very kindly sent me a copy which I had transcribed (though not the dubiums) so if anyone wants to have a look at them…
Further changes were made in 1960 affecting the calendar and rubrics and are incorporated in the 1961/2 editio typica. I think for that one the most significant textual changes are in the Votive Collects to be said ad libitum when allowed by the rubrics. And later there was the 4 new prefaces that could be said ad libitum- one for Advent.

 

[AJV]

There are times when the readings are the same, such as the 4 weeks in Advent.

Hope I’ve interpeted what you were saying correctly Unfinished…apologies if not

The readings are not the same for Advent. In certain years, the Epistle is same but the Gospel isn’t. The Gospel readings also appear in the 3 year cycle but for some, on different Sundays and enlarged/reduced, and without the corresponding Epistle.

 

[AJV]

But yes, I am struck also by the lack of OT readings, and I do understand what you said: “so often the OT reading sheds more light on the New and completes the meaning for [you].”

The reason the OT (or HS ) is not read at Mass is because it is read in the Divine Office. I believe the Byzantine also follow this custom (though not all the other Eastern Churches). Unfortunately the Divine Office cycle got abbreviated with time, but the OT is still read there. This abbreviated cycle is visible because even though the Office has changed, the Mass Propers show traces.

The whole cycle is ancient…pious belief attributes it to St. Jerome, but even if it wasn’t him the bulk of the readings for Sundays and the Temporale go back to St. Gregory the Great.

The Gospel is therefore, really appropriate…it is the “Time after Epiphany” and the Gospel reflects the ‘epiphany’ idea because Christ is revealing his power and divinity.
Liturgy is always a catechism .

 

[Rykell]

The reason the OT (or HS ) is not read at Mass is because it is read in the Divine Office.

That would be a great spiritual benefit for the few who pray the Divine Office, but for the many in the pews, they would not be able to correlate the Old Testament passages with those of the New, such as we experience today in the N.O. Reading the bible on one’s own does not always provide this particular enlightenment either. The Church has been most instructive in this regard, and I have notice that the psalm after the first reading very often completes the reflection. I am really edified by these readings, but then I don’t know a whole lot about the TLM’s.

Thanks for showing us how this mass is celebrated.

 

[Unfinished]

Hope I’ve interpeted what you were saying correctly Unfinished…apologies if not

The readings are not the same for Advent. In certain years, the Epistle is same but the Gospel isn’t. The Gospel readings also appear in the 3 year cycle but for some, on different Sundays and enlarged/reduced, and without the corresponding Epistle.

Well, if I am not mistaken, this last Christmas season the Gospel readings were the same in both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine. (On Sundays anyway). I didn’t bother to check, but I remember my priest mentioning how happy he was that it fell that way because he didn’t have to write two homilies.

 

[Rykell]

Hello Maurin!

I join with the others here in celebrating your happiness in finding your special niche where God has led you. May He bless you and let His face shine brightly upon you always!

 

[AJV]

Well, if I am not mistaken, this last Christmas season the Gospel readings were the same in both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine. (On Sundays anyway). I didn’t bother to check, but I remember my priest mentioning how happy he was that it fell that way because he didn’t have to write two homilies.

Last year two of the Gospels from the Traditional Missal apeared in the cycle: Luke 21:25-28 & 34-36 (in the TLM: Luke 1: 25-33) and Luke 3:1-6. The first appeared in both on the First Sunday of Advent, but the second appeared in the NO on the Second Sunday and in the TLM on the Fourth Sunday [technically last year though, in the TLM it didn’t appear because the Mass for the Vigil of Christmas took precedence over the 4th Sunday]

For Christmas though, the two were largely the same.

 

[anamchara]

The Traditional Mass as in the Indult is required to use the Missal that was in use in 1962. If the Missal that you have is from 1962 or before you should be all right. There were some changes made around 1950 and others in I think 1955 or so, but I do believe the readings were the same. I checked some at random from my trusty old 45 St Andrews and they dovetail with the 62 Missals so what you have is probably appropriate.

Thanks so much palmas since it was his fathers when he was little, I’m sure it’s dated way before 1962 I will take a look at it a bit closer.

 

[anamchara]

Anamchara,

The Latin/English parts of the Mass should be the same. If the missal has the Sunday readings included, they too would be the same as the ones used now in the TLM. From what I’ve been able to figure out there wasn’t that much that changed prior to the 1962 missal, except for some major changes to the Holy Week liturgies around 1955.

Many of us who attend the TLM who are not fortunate enough to have an old missal that’s been handed down have obtained our missals from e-Bay or second hand stores.

Jennifer

Thanks also Jennifer You’ve been very helpful.