My First Veiled Mass

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rcn:
This was my reaction too. Although you said it much more succinctly that I was going to.

If the focus truly was on God, why the urge to hop onto a message board and tell everyone about it? Consider Matthew ch. 6 (“Be on guard against performing religious acts for people to see”, “do not … pray … in order to be noticed”) and similar passages.

I simply do not accept that anyone is “receiving calls” to do something that the Church does not require, and has not required for a long time. To me it simply seems to be yet another example of the erroneous “old things are more holy, as are we fortunate people that cling to bygone practices” line of thought that is common on so many message boards but NOT AT ALL in real life:

A prime example.

“Bring shame to your head?” What kind of utter nonsense is that? Shame on you.
I am amazed at the insults this woman is enduring because she shared an (name removed by moderator)ortant (for her) experience with us. I don’t think it’s Helen HansenPye who has the “Holier Than Thou” attitude! 😦
 
Helen, I understand your emotions completely!

I was called to cover my head in the presence of Christ for a long time before I did it. In my parish it wasn’t unheard of, but was practiced by only a handful of the older ladies. I prayed for guidance to not be aware of it, so that I would not feel I was calling attention to myself. However, after 8 years, I feel naked without my veil. The population in our parish of women who cover their heads is about 10%. Up from 0%, I’d say that is quite a jump!

When I visit other parishes, I always sit in the back, so as not to be obtrusive, and someone always comments on it. You are allowing yourself to be the the light of the world! 👍
 
1Co 11:5 but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head–it is the same as if her head were shaven.

1Co 11:6 **For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. **

1Co 11:7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.

1Co 11:10 **That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. **

1Co 11:13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
On the surface, from a very Protestant and superficial standpoint of personal interpretation of the Bible, there sure seems like a great deal of biblical support for wearing a veil.

I’m wondering though, where does the Church’s Magisterium interpret any part of the Bible to suggest that a woman must wear a veil to the Mass?

What’s next? Tefillin for the men? After all, dosen’t the Bible instruct this as well?
 
St. John Chrysostom has a wonderful disccussion on why women should wear the manitlla.
 
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Lorrie:
I think this is wonderful Helen!! I actually purchased a mantilla online a few months ago, received it, but have not worn it yet - I guess I just don’t have the guts to do it yet. I comend you!!
Hi Lorrie,

Don’t feel bad about not having the guts to do it. Believe me, you’re not alone. I’ve seen first-hand the thrashings females can give other females who would dare to wear a veil to the Holy Sacrifice. My wife told me as much as she might like to, she wouldn’t dare, the ridicule would be just too much to take.

I wonder how many females are out there who are ‘closet’ head coverers? How many are out there who would, if they could, but don’t from fear?

It reminds me of the school-yard. When us boys fought, we fought and then it was over. We could beat each other up and be best friends again in 30 minutes. When the girls fought, it was horrible. One girl would get all the other girls to outcast and hate another girl forever. Females can truly take warfare to a whole 'nuther level. This is why I truly have the utmost respect for any female who would dare to cover their head.
 
I, too, bought a mantilla a couple of months ago, but I haven’t gotten the guts to put it on yet. I just keep it in a little pocket in my purse, just in case I’m suddenly inspired to do so.

If I ever do, I’ll do what one of the other posters said - sit in the back so not to draw too much attention to myself. 👍
 
I started by wearing a veil which blended in color to both my hair and what I usually wear…black. It’s just that my “Sunday best” tends to be black-or dark colored.

But as many at my parish wear the veil, it’s not such a huge deal…except to some women. I have never been approached by a man and told not to wear a veil…and that includes our parish priests.

Anyway, I’m going to be facing this “battle” at the end of the week when I go to my aunt’s funeral Mass. My family has always been Catholic, so no issue there…but I guarantee no one else will be veiled. Yet the impulse to be veiled is so strong I don’t think I can say “no” to God.

We don’t do it to stand out…we do it in obedience to a personal call.

Myself, I’ve always been the black sheep of my family anyway, so no matter what I do, it’ll be wrong, so I’ll likely just wear it and be prepared to provide some education. My family KNOWS I’'m not “holy” so no issue there. I just pray they won’t actually notice as they should all be pretty focused on grief and the Lord, not pitiful me.

In my opinion, if someone is distracted at Mass because someone is wearing a head covering, there is a larger issue with their attention span and it reflects more on them than my actions.

But that battle goes on.

The key is this: when it gets to be commonplace again, people will stop noticing and stop fighting.

Personally, I choose to follow the Lord, and many women I know who DO happen to be very holy and devout are veiled…and some women I know who are NOT veiled are just as holy and devout. The telling part about the latter group is that they do not condemn those who kneel next to them in the pew and choose to cover their heads.

Why does this issue rage on and on?
 
Chalice said:
1Co 11:5 but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head–it is the same as if her head were shaven.

1Co 11:6 **For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. **

1Co 11:7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.

1Co 11:10 **That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. **

1Co 11:13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
On the surface, from a very Protestant and superficial standpoint of personal interpretation of the Bible, there sure seems like a great deal of biblical support for wearing a veil.

I’m wondering though, where does the Church’s Magisterium interpret any part of the Bible to suggest that a woman must wear a veil to the Mass?

What’s next? Tefillin for the men? After all, dosen’t the Bible instruct this as well?

Hi Chalice - nothing wrong with Protestants like you rejecting the veil :yup: . In the meantime, congratulations to the OP for embracing solid Catholic tradition! :clapping:
 
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JCPhoenix:
In my opinion, if someone is distracted at Mass because someone is wearing a head covering, there is a larger issue with their attention span and it reflects more on them than my actions.
On the other hand, loving women very much, it’s not rare for me to get distracted by beautiful hair. Of course, it’s harder to not be distracted by skin or an undergarment showing these days… :crying: I just hope the rest of your “Sunday best” is as modest as your veil. 👍

:blessyou:
 
Scotty PGH:
Hi Chalice - nothing wrong with Protestants like you rejecting the veil. In the meantime, congratulations to the OP for embracing solid Catholic tradition! :clapping:
That’s simply a crude remark – I’m a cradle Catholic.

There is no “solid Catholic tradition!” that I know about that directs (or even suggests) women should wear veils.
 
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rcn:
This was my reaction too. Although you said it much more succinctly that I was going to.

If the focus truly was on God, why the urge to hop onto a message board and tell everyone about it? Consider Matthew ch. 6 (“Be on guard against performing religious acts for people to see”, “do not … pray … in order to be noticed”) and similar passages.

I simply do not accept that anyone is “receiving calls” to do something that the Church does not require, and has not required for a long time. To me it simply seems to be yet another example of the erroneous "old things are more holy, as are we fortunate people that cling to bygone practices" line of thought that is common on so many message boards but NOT AT ALL in real life:

A prime example.

“Bring shame to your head?” What kind of utter nonsense is that? Shame on you.
I concur…

Unfortunately those that bemoan “liberalism” or “heterodoxy” are often the very same people who suggest something is “good” based on their own opinions of the past.

There certainly wouldn’t be anything wrong with a woman wearing a veil to Mass. But to come on here and broadcast as a would-be martyr is nothing more than someone seeking a pat on the back.
 
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Augustine:
On the other hand, loving women very much, it’s not rare for me to get distracted by beautiful hair. Of course, it’s harder to not be distracted by skin or an undergarment showing these days… :crying: I just hope the rest of your “Sunday best” is as modest as your veil. 👍

:blessyou:
Interesting that you say that…one of the reasons I chose to wear a head covering is due to my hair…I recieve many compliments on it and it is my vanity.

And no, I do not wear halter tops, short skirts, etc. Praise God for that!

🙂

By the way, I get distracted, too, even now…but less so and my distraction is now less about the other people in the pews and more internal distractions. Those are harder to beat!
 
Chalice,

I’m so glad we have people like you who can read hearts and discern intent from a Catholic posting on a Catholic board about a common Catholic practice and call it hypocracy.

No, you didn’t have to use that word, but that is what you have done…you have called the OP a hypocrite.

Might I suggest that before you make judgments on another’s intent that you examine your own from your heightened viewpoint on the back of that horse you straddle so comfortably?

I guess it could be argued that your condemnation of the OP is your own “pat on the back” for picking up on such an obvious act of alleged hypocricy according to your definition.

Have you stopped to consider that one of the reason these boards exist is so that Catholics can get together and share our experiences as Catholics and recieve advice, support (yes, support) from others with similar interests or spirituality? Were it not for that, likely you wouldn’t be here, either.

So if you disagree, rather than being so uncharitable and judgmental, could you ride that horse to a thread which suits your opinions a little better? Thanks for your opinions, and I appreciate them, however the judgmentalness needs to go.

I can’t judge your own motives for being here and I know nothing about you, however I have learned not to bring up any spiritual experiences or even questions about practices in your presence for fear of being compared to a Pharisee… Thanks for the education.
 
Helen,

I think it’s really great that you’ve found a more intimate connection in Mass with the addition of wearing a veil. Continue sharing your joy for serving God whenever you feel compelled, as it does seem to be a real inspiration to a number of us. 🙂
 
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Madia:
What do you find more distracting in Church? Women wearing veils and men wearing suits or women immodestly dressed and men wearing street clothes?
This is not a sincere question, as it presumes your personal definition of “immodesty”. And while I do not wish to participate in yet another endless circular go-nowhere argument about dress standards, I will simply state that:
  1. No one in my parish comes to church dressed “immodestly”. No one. In fact I can also say that about any parish I’ve attended in various parts of the country. But that is using my personal definition of the term.
  2. The very very few women that wear veils (no, JCphoenix, it’s not a “common practice” and has not been for a long, long time - this is not debatable) stick out like a sore thumb, and are indeed very “distracting” to me personally, and
  3. It is my opinion that many of them, perhaps more so than not so, do it at least as much for “appearance’s sake” than for any other reason. And while I did not and do not accuse the OP nor anyone here of having any particular motive, I do wonder why so many seem to feel the need to tell the world about it on message boards like this.
 
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rcn:
  1. No one in my parish comes to church dressed “immodestly”.
A very wise priest once taught me that we should define our terms when having an intelligent discussion. I found the dictionary definition to be relative, so in our culture, by the dictionary definition, one could walk around nude and not be considered “immodest”. I might suggest that “immodesty” means: low cut tops, short skirts, see-through clothing, midriff exposure, etc." Just off the top of my head. Please, anyone, add your own so that we may all be on the same page on this issue. I would suggest that immodesty alone be a topic for another thread as it really is OT here to go in depth.
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rcn:
  1. The very very few women that wear veils (no, JCphoenix, it’s not a “common practice” and has not been for a long, long time - this is not debatable) stick out like a sore thumb, and are indeed very “distracting” to me personally, and
I beg to differ. Maybe in your parish/diocese, it is not a common practice, but historically it WAS, and in my area, it is a farily common practice. In my parish there are several women who are veiled, and that number includes women who never burned their veils with the rest of the rabid feminists after Vat II. Sad that they seem to be the only ones who are not condemned for wearing their veils when it is the younger generation who now follows suit…those aged apx 17-35 are now seeking to emulate our elders.

So given that, I’m sorry to say that you have decided that you can infallibly say that this is not a debatable topic. Sorry you are distracted. Have you read St. Therese of Lisieux? She was distracted by another sister’s rosary beads…so maybe your distraction calls forth the state of your soul to your attention and maybe you can look upon this as a way to grow in virtue. I leave that to you and God, and I hope that you will offer those of us who wear the veil the same courtesy. We are all hopefully seeking to grow in virtue.
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rcn:
  1. It is my opinion that many of them, perhaps more so than not so, do it at least as much for “appearance’s sake” {sic}… I do wonder why so many seem to feel the need to tell the world about it on message boards like this.
Again, you have this opinion, yet you stated earlier that it is not common practice. So it seems to me that your opinion does not have a decent cross-section for analysis, and your judgments are likely coming from your own personal opinion rather than objective information.

From what authority do you make this judgment on their wearing the veil for appearance’s sake?

As far as “telling the world about it”, can we lay this to rest? You might as well place those with Charismatic Spirituality, Secualar Carmelites, those discerning a vocation, etc, into the same category. Aren’t they, too, “telling the world” about their experinces with God, maybe seeking advice? Are those who announce they are discerning vocations and have questions or are sharing their stories putting themselves out there as “holier than thou”? Are Charismatics in their discussion of their experiences in the Spirit “Pharisees”, too? What about those in secular orders and talk about it here…are they holier than the rest of us because they have taken those vows and live that lifestyle? Is that the same thing?

Or are you just selective in what you are willing to see discussed on Catholic boards?

It seems to me from what you have stated that it’s ok for other groups or people from other movements to talk about similar things, share experiences in prayer, etc., but apparently it’s not OK for someone to wear a veil and talk about it here in order to generate conversation.

It’s really too bad that so many have to pounce all over a women just trying to follow God’s will and is in all likliehood sincerely looking for advice, and yes, support from fellow Catholics. Why is that so hard?

Have you noticed that she hasn’t posted since?

I understand that you are not accusing anyone here, and I further agree that there ARE people out there who do things for the sake of appearance. I could cite people who are EHMC’s who do so out of appearance, not love of the Lord. How can I surmise to tell? In reality, I can’t. But I have seen their behavior before Mass, chatting, treating the Mass as a social event, etc. You’d think they are at a cocktail party. Maybe my judgment is unfair, and so it is. So you and I really aren’t that different, are we?

I guess we both have something to learn here.

Sorry to digress. Do you see the parallel in our thinking?

Sorry I called someone uncharitable. It seems that I suffer the same burden. Wow, I wear a veil, and look at that! I’m not very holy!

What a surprise. :rolleyes:
 
It appears as if this particular tthread simply returns to posting about the thread participants and as I see the subject has now “spun off” into a poll thread --this one is now closed.
 
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