As I have pointed out, the appropriate fora for the confidential disclosure of this sort of information have already been erected by the Church and secular society. This person’s failure to make use of either therefore leads me to the only other two motives that can possibly exist.
I’m very glad I’m not a member of your church.
Thanks for the correction on terminology, but my use was quite correct. Celibacy’s primary definition is one who abstains from sexual relations - that is standard English usage.
So, his wanting to be rid of such thought and attractions and asking a friend for help makes him a shameless sinner? I hope you never ask a friend for prayer or advise for a particular sinful habit or inclination… you’d have to advise them to drop you faster than a hot potato.
Again, the OP’s friend isn’t “reveling” in his homosexuality… he is upset and wants to be rid of these thoughts… how compassionate is it to drop someone who is trying to no longer sin. We’re all human, but it seems to me the OP’s friend recognizes his own potentially sinful behavior (same-sex attraction), unlike others who don’t seem to recognize the lack of charity is also very sinful.
Again, from the OP, the young friend is upset with the thoughts and isn’t trying to “seduce” or “recruit” anyone. He is asking for help, and maybe doesn’t know anywhere else to get it. If he were looking for seduction or recruitment, wouldn’t he ask a friend that’s in the GBLT of America or some other “unabashed homosexuality is OK group” and not someone that goes to church with him? It seems, from the evidence that we have been given in the OP, that he is trying to do the right thing. I am glad that he has a friend like the OP who is also trying to do the right thing in helping him.
That hits the nail on the head. Great post.So, his wanting to be rid of such thought and attractions and asking a friend for help makes him a shameless sinner? I hope you never ask a friend for prayer or advise for a particular sinful habit or inclination… you’d have to advise them to drop you faster than a hot potato.
Again, the OP’s friend isn’t “reveling” in his homosexuality… he is upset and wants to be rid of these thoughts… how compassionate is it to drop someone who is trying to no longer sin. We’re all human, but it seems to me the OP’s friend recognizes his own potentially sinful behavior (same-sex attraction), unlike others who don’t seem to recognize the lack of charity is also very sinful.
Again, from the OP, the young friend is upset with the thoughts and isn’t trying to “seduce” or “recruit” anyone. He is asking for help, and maybe doesn’t know anywhere else to get it. If he were looking for seduction or recruitment, wouldn’t he ask a friend that’s in the GBLT of America or some other “unabashed homosexuality is OK group” and not someone that goes to church with him? It seems, from the evidence that we have been given in the OP, that he is trying to do the right thing. I am glad that he has a friend like the OP who is also trying to do the right thing in helping him.
Ericka
I might remind you that according to Christ, even looking at a woman lustfully is an act of adultery. The OP’s “friend” has been nurturing such lustful thoughts for some time and therefore may as well have acted upon them carnally. Christ sees no difference and neither should we.So, his wanting to be rid of such thought and attractions and asking a friend for help makes him a shameless sinner? I hope you never ask a friend for prayer or advise for a particular sinful habit or inclination… you’d have to advise them to drop you faster than a hot potato.
Again, the OP’s friend isn’t “reveling” in his homosexuality… he is upset and wants to be rid of these thoughts… how compassionate is it to drop someone who is trying to no longer sin. We’re all human, but it seems to me the OP’s friend recognizes his own potentially sinful behavior (same-sex attraction), unlike others who don’t seem to recognize the lack of charity is also very sinful.
Again, from the OP, the young friend is upset with the thoughts and isn’t trying to “seduce” or “recruit” anyone. He is asking for help, and maybe doesn’t know anywhere else to get it. If he were looking for seduction or recruitment, wouldn’t he ask a friend that’s in the GBLT of America or some other “unabashed homosexuality is OK group” and not someone that goes to church with him? It seems, from the evidence that we have been given in the OP, that he is trying to do the right thing. I am glad that he has a friend like the OP who is also trying to do the right thing in helping him.
Ericka
To redefine the celibate state as a mere negative reality perverts the good it is meant to be a sign of. The decision for celibacy is a positive and free choice made by men and women of sufficient competence to make such a decision. A man who is beset with persistent same-sex attractions simply does not possess the freedom to make any such choice. The celibate state is not meant to be a holding tank for the sexually dysfunctional. Such a conception is wholly disrespectful to those good men and women who, in religious life and other forms of consecrated virginity, point to the eschatological destiny of man. If you wish to understand things as the Church does, you will need to start using her terms the way she does. Abstinence from sexual activity and celibacy are simply not synonymous terms.
Neither is the attempt to provide assistance in spite of one’s own ineptitude Christlike.
It bears pointing out that the advice to “walk with him” need not imply continued association. Simply because you cease to see this individual as a friend does not preclude you from saying such prayers which could provide him far more help than can an ill-informed “friendship”. If this person happens to feel lonely and isolated, it is important to recognize that such feelings are fantasies borne of his pathology and that attempting to address them may only enable such codependency and make it worse. Let this person develop his disinterested friendships exclusively with God and the saints, rather than any of us fallen individuals still in need of perfection.I asked two priests about this.
One said. Be careful
The other said. Walk with him
From my own person experience, walk with him but be very very careful. As heterosexuals, we initially think that they are the same in every way but sexual orientation. My experience has been that these friendships have been excruiatingly difficult. Maybe whatever causes people to have strong homosexual attraction affects them in other ways as well. These friendships are extremely necessary for the homosexual men who may be lonely and isolated, but extremely draining and difficult all the same. They may have no other sources of support other than you and be unwilling to find other sources of support. They may attack you for being intolerant simply for holding an orthodox Catholic position. They may be suicidal or your friend one day and against you the next. They may be extremely conscious of your feelings, as they interpret them, and make large and significant decisions based on small things that you have said. Be very very very careful. Pray earnestly for your friend. Divine Mercy Chaplet and Most Holy Rosary are key here.
Think about attending the Courage conference yourself as an Encourager/Friend so that you can learn more from an authoritative and orthodox Catholic figure.
But remember, the only two outcomes, according to eric, are Besides, you don’t want to be either Seduction or Recruitment.I asked two priests about this.
One said. Be careful
The other said. Walk with him
From my own person experience, walk with him but be very very careful. As heterosexuals, we initially think that they are the same in every way but sexual orientation. My experience has been that these friendships have been excruiatingly difficult. Maybe whatever causes people to have strong homosexual attraction affects them in other ways as well. These friendships are extremely necessary for the homosexual men who may be lonely and isolated, but extremely draining and difficult all the same. They may have no other sources of support other than you and be unwilling to find other sources of support. They may attack you for being intolerant simply for holding an orthodox Catholic position. They may be suicidal or your friend one day and against you the next. They may be extremely conscious of your feelings, as they interpret them, and make large and significant decisions based on small things that you have said. Be very very very careful. Pray earnestly for your friend. Divine Mercy Chaplet and Most Holy Rosary are key here.
Think about attending the Courage conference yourself as an Encourager/Friend so that you can learn more from an authoritative and orthodox Catholic figure.
Arclight, you and Eric represent different and important sides of the story. In fact, my priest has at times told me to stay away from people trapped in psychological problems at points in time in which I am very vulnerable myself. “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Sometimes it is necessary to admit that one is not capable of handling another’s problems and that God is a more powerful and loving figure than we will ever be.
It may serve you well to stop associating compassion with the saccharine-sweet verses found on your typical Hallmark greeting card. Authentic compassion expressed in this situation keeps in mind the same-sex attracted individual’s beatitude – full communion with God. This compassion does not come at the expense of one’s own beatitude.
I’m fairly certain my views are suspect, as I’ve been assured of such time and time again here.
Besides, who wants to be Recruited or Seduced? Which are, as you insist, the only options to explain the kid’s behavior.
One cannot allow one’s irrational sentiments to get in the way of a dispassionate cost-benefit analysis.
You mean, you applied a cost/benefit analysis to the kid’s situation and determined it was either “seduction” or “recruitment”?