My friend is a lost little soul

[SusanL]

I’ve had a “born again” friend of mine try to dialogue with me via emails to pull me away from the Catholic Church. I’m a convert and I think I just lost my friend.

We’ve been talking through emails for few months with a break from Thanksgiving to New Year’s. She wanted to dialogue with me about the Catholic faith with the hopes of proving me wrong. She believed in Sola Scriptura absolutely and that the Bible interprets itself. I first tried to talk to her about the history of the Bible and to make sure that we understood each other in terms of definitions of words. She insisted on talking about Mary so I said, ok. Let me do some research and I’ll get back to you on it.

Well, to make a long story short…I think that she hit a wall. I think that she is in a religious crisis because I brought up some proof about Mary and that the Bible she is working out of has had books and chapters of other books removed. My friend kept telling me previously that nothing can be added or deleted from the Bible. Now she says that she no longer wants to talk about Mary and wrote me a somewhat rambling email about what she does believe in and a bunch of stuff that doesn’t sound like her or make sense.

I scared her bad and I’m sad.

Has anybody had an experience with hitting a “religious wall?” By this I mean where you have to face certain truths and you don’t know how to deal with it? Her little glass house is shattering. Her husband isn’t Catholic nor any of her immediate family. I doubt that any of her friends are devout Catholics. She is not going to get any support should she try to press on for the truth.

Has anyone here ever experienced that? Or had an experience (like me) where you have contributed to that? I was always charitable and I think that God has brought her here so far. It’s just hard because she’s not writing back to me and I suspect that our friendship is over. God is going to have to take her to the next “station.”

 

[Unitas]

I’ve had a “born again” friend of mine try to dialogue with me via emails to pull me away from the Catholic Church. I’m a convert and I think I just lost my friend.

We’ve been talking through emails for few months with a break from Thanksgiving to New Year’s. She wanted to dialogue with me about the Catholic faith with the hopes of proving me wrong. She believed in Sola Scriptura absolutely and that the Bible interprets itself. I first tried to talk to her about the history of the Bible and to make sure that we understood each other in terms of definitions of words. She insisted on talking about Mary so I said, ok. Let me do some research and I’ll get back to you on it.

Well, to make a long story short…I think that she hit a wall. I think that she is in a religious crisis because I brought up some proof about Mary and that the Bible she is working out of has had books and chapters of other books removed. My friend kept telling me previously that nothing can be added or deleted from the Bible. Now she says that she no longer wants to talk about Mary and wrote me a somewhat rambling email about what she does believe in and a bunch of stuff that doesn’t sound like her or make sense.

I scared her bad and I’m sad.

Has anybody had an experience with hitting a “religious wall?” By this I mean where you have to face certain truths and you don’t know how to deal with it? Her little glass house is shattering. Her husband isn’t Catholic nor any of her immediate family. I doubt that any of her friends are devout Catholics. She is not going to get any support should she try to press on for the truth.

Has anyone here ever experienced that? Or had an experience (like me) where you have contributed to that? I was always charitable and I think that God has brought her here so far. It’s just hard because she’s not writing back to me and I suspect that our friendship is over. God is going to have to take her to the next “station.”

I know what you’re talking about with that “wall.” It’s the diving board that’s way high up that everything’s telling you to jump but you’re scared. This is the point where hope is very important to your friend. This is the line in the sand; to either accept or reject. It’s always a question of authority, and history doesn’t lie.

This is no doubt a very scary moment for her; A seed has been planted and it’s looking to revolutionize her beliefs. She can’t deny it, our natural desire for the truth will spur her on, and the more she finds out, I bet the more questions will be raised.

Who do you think she’ll ask about these questions? That’d be you Well, she’ll ask you after her minister gives her a bargain-basement explanation that won’t satisfy her. You being her friend is also very fortunate here, because she knows you wouldn’t lie to her, or give her bad information. Which is why I think she even took the time to evaluate your questions. Without that bond I doubt she would have given them a second look.

It is also scary because the rest of her family is not Catholic, and who knows how receptive they’d be to the news that she’s converted. Even in the most loving family, we sometimes have fears of isolation. Even mere questions can make one isolated.

All I can say is just be there for when she needs you. Make sure she knows she’s not alone. Encourage her to have questions and to not be affraid to ask them. (Obviously have answers ready lol) Questions strengthen our faith. And make sure the answers she gets is accurate! I’ve seen some explanations for protestant views that are absolute lies in the face of history. (One like John approved the OT and NT canon and the Catholics changed it at the council of Trent to include the deuterocanonicals. I laughed for a while at that one.)Above all, help her to have hope.

 

[puzzleannie]

if she is there, that is her spiritual crisis to work through not yours. as a friend your role at this time is to be a friend, not an apologist, and not an evangelist. You have already given her that gift. She is not ready for any more until she asks for it, so just offer friendship, and the witness of the Catholic life fully lived.

 

[FightingFat]

Wow! Powerful stuff!!

Has anybody had an experience with hitting a “religious wall?” By this I mean where you have to face certain truths and you don’t know how to deal with it?

Well, years ago, when I was first exposed to anti-Catholic material, yeah, sure. But I found that however scary the allegation, the Church had the answer. She’s lacking that authoratative backing.

I’ll remember you both in my prayers!

 

[Marilena]

I’ve had a “born again” friend of mine try to dialogue with me via emails to pull me away from the Catholic Church. I’m a convert and I think I just lost my friend.

We’ve been talking through emails for few months with a break from Thanksgiving to New Year’s. She wanted to dialogue with me about the Catholic faith with the hopes of proving me wrong. She believed in Sola Scriptura absolutely and that the Bible interprets itself. I first tried to talk to her about the history of the Bible and to make sure that we understood each other in terms of definitions of words. She insisted on talking about Mary so I said, ok. Let me do some research and I’ll get back to you on it.

Well, to make a long story short…I think that she hit a wall. I think that she is in a religious crisis because I brought up some proof about Mary and that the Bible she is working out of has had books and chapters of other books removed. My friend kept telling me previously that nothing can be added or deleted from the Bible. Now she says that she no longer wants to talk about Mary and wrote me a somewhat rambling email about what she does believe in and a bunch of stuff that doesn’t sound like her or make sense.

I scared her bad and I’m sad.

Has anybody had an experience with hitting a “religious wall?” By this I mean where you have to face certain truths and you don’t know how to deal with it? Her little glass house is shattering. Her husband isn’t Catholic nor any of her immediate family. I doubt that any of her friends are devout Catholics. She is not going to get any support should she try to press on for the truth.

Has anyone here ever experienced that? Or had an experience (like me) where you have contributed to that? I was always charitable and I think that God has brought her here so far. It’s just hard because she’s not writing back to me and I suspect that our friendship is over. God is going to have to take her to the next “station.”

hi there,

have you tried emailing her again? or tried calling her assuming you know her well enough? have you tried to invite her out for a tea or coffee asuming you live close?

don’t give up on her,. it could be that she might’ve mentioned your dialogue with her family or spouse and perhaps they are pressuring her not to speak with you anymore. that is only an assumption of mine as to why she might not be writing to you anymore. pray about it, and pray that she writes back. Remember, all things are possible with God.

i have had similar experiences with a jw lady that comes to my door. when i spoke to her about the jw’s and the 1975 armageddon issue she got a really cold look on her face and
didn’t come back for weeks after that. she tried to make excuses and eventually gave up on coming over. however, she did come back.

trust in Jesus, and send this person a friendly email without
talking about religion, and just ask her how she is doing, that could open the door to future discussion again.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

I do not initiate religious discussions with Protestants. But I do not back down from anything. Much like the opening discussion you were going to have on Mary shifting rapidly to something else, I find they cannot keep on track. It seems to be a Protestant trait. And if you start making since they shift to another topic immediately. It is as if they are trained that way.

Give your friend time. She’ll come back to the relationship.

 

[SusanL]

I do not initiate religious discussions with Protestants. But I do not back down from anything. Much like the opening discussion you were going to have on Mary shifting rapidly to something else, I find they cannot keep on track. It seems to be a Protestant trait. And if you start making since they shift to another topic immediately. It is as if they are trained that way.

Give your friend time. She’ll come back to the relationship.

Actually, I never initiated it. I think she was pushed into this dialogue with me. In some of the discussions she would touch upon different topics but not dwell on them. I believe that she was fed a lot of anti-Catholic propaganda so I sent her one last email yesterday (before I posted here) to let her know that the only way she is going to be absolutely sure of what the Catholic Church teaches is to read the Catechism. I also told her that we are Bible Christians. And I told her that when (and if) she ever wanted to talk with me then I would be here.

I’m going to leave her alone because that’s what I think she wants. Thanks, everybody. I just needed a shoulder because this was hard on me, too.

 

[Tonks40]

Based on my own experiences in talking about the Faith to my non-catholic friends, when they are “confronted” with an issue that seems to contradict their own understanding, they do pull away, get scared, be defensive. But they come back to the friendship…and with a little better understanding of the Faith. They may not bring it up again, but somehow I feel that their hearts are pondering on the matter.

 

[George_Craft]

HI Susan,

When times of hitting that “brick wall” occasionally come up, and they will when a certain teaching doesn’t initially make sense or seems hard to accept, I’m drawn to the Gospel of John:

John 6:67 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him. 68 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? 69 And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Some things are difficult to accept, even by those who had the supreme blessing to be with our Lord in person. Let your friend have this moment alone with the Lord and pray for her strength. The next step is the Lord’s.

With love,
George

 

[Seeker12]

Dear SusanL:
I am not popular among the Catholic elite, because as a convert I never abandoned some of my Protestant beliefs. I believe in justification by faith, even should I remain in the church because of the sacraments, and the Word of God. I am a member of the People of God, and I am totaly with Vatican II and the renewal. Like, totally. I am SO over the Latin Mass.
I say this because I think your friend has a right to be who she wants to believe, and be the kind of Christian she wants to be. If she has a relationship with her Lord it is not anyone’s right to get in the way. I have Mother Theresa to reinforce that idea.
I have a (had) friend who felt, even were I regularly attending mass and charismatic prayer services and masses, that it was his business to convert me to his version of Marian devotion-and this included Mary Mediatrix, which is not officially recognized as a Catholic theological proposition.
I will not seek anyone’s approval in this forum. I will try not to offend. But with my theological and ecumenical background, I have much wisdom to bring to bear on the schism between East and West, Catholic and Protestant. And I abhor the divisiveness and the argumentative, ungenerous spirits so many Christians have these days.
I will say this: the music played on some Evangelical radio stations locally is so bad I cringe sometimes. At other times it is good. How strange, this world I walk through as a spiritual pilgrim, not a member of the church I belong to, because the people I see portrayed on public forums like these are people I cannot say I share the same faith with, albeit we believe in Jesus and the Eucharist. I am with your friend. She is not lost. She is just avoiding a source of what is, to her, oppression.
What is this pride, that must have the only access to God? I don’t get it. There are riches of wisdom in the church-but I am going to different sources to access it.
They all thought I was lost, because I was in the Catholic church-and they still believe that salvation depends on staying out of it, for the sake of their souls, because Catholics do not know Jesus as their personal savior.
The ignorance that divides us all will never end as long as we throw theological stones at each other, and never take the time to listen to one another.
As for me, I believe all things, in the say St. Paul taught that love does. And that says it all.
I say this with the prompting of the Holy Spirit and I do not expect the nihil obstat or the imprimatur of anyone in this forum, may God bless you all anyway.
Neither do I expect, or desire a reply.Thank you for letting me post these thoughts.

 

[SusanL]

Seeker12, somehow I must have not communicated this very well because you’re misunderstanding what I wrote last year.

My friend is a little lost soul and not because she doesn’t belong to the Catholic Church. Remember, I spent a good year talking with her, back and forth through emails. She loves the Lord for which I am extremely grateful for. She is a beautiful person inside and out. Why do I say that she is a little lost soul?

I say that because I could hear the quest in her writings. The searching. The confusion. The upset tone in her writings because I kept showing her through scripture why I said what I said. She told me that she never knew a Catholic who was as well-versed in the Bible as I was. That is truly a shame because I am not at all where I should be. She didn’t want me to be right but she didn’t know how to refute what I wrote.

I am a convert, too. It took me ten years to come into the church and a lot of convincing, I might add.

Seeker12, be patient with Catholics. Everybody is on a journey and we don’t all act the way we should, that is true.

Neither I (nor probably most of the Catholics here) believe that we have the only access to God. Where did you get that belief? When I say that she is a “little lost soul” I do not mean that her soul is doomed to hell. Perhaps that is where the confusion is. I am simply saying that she appears to be lost…confused…frustrated…bothered…searching but not finding.

She has been going to church after church after church seeking for a place that is true to scripture and being sorely disappointed with each one. She drags her husband and her kids to each one and immerses them all in it only to have her heart broken when they don’t live up to the “Word.”

I have been a convert for the past 5 years. I, too, have an ecumenical background. I was raised Methodist. My father converted to the Seventh Day Adventist faith. I am a church organist who has spent much much time with different faiths and made friends with several different denominations.

One has to discern what is truth. Not everything is ok. Not all beliefs are ok. Does that condemn them to hell? I don’t believe so. I don’t believe in forcing my beliefs on others. It wouldn’t work any ways. I believe in living my Catholic faith to the highest degree that I can with God’s ever divine help. (and boy, do I need it!) By being ready to explain what I believe to be true and actually living my faith, I hope to lead others to God and to the Catholic Church.

Quote:
I say this because I think your friend has a right to be who she wants to believe, and be the kind of Christian she wants to be. If she has a relationship with her Lord it is not anyone’s right to get in the way. I have Mother Theresa to reinforce that idea.

Remember, my friend was the one who initiated the conversation. Not me. She was the one who wanted to convert me. Not the other way around.

Quote:
The ignorance that divides us all will never end as long as we throw theological stones at each other, and never take the time to listen to one another.

I agree. Completely. I listened to her and repeated what I thought she was saying to make sure that I had it right. She was so upset with what I was saying that there were times that she wouldn’t listen at all to me. She totally ignored what I wrote. Very very frustrating and that was one of the beefs I had with her (and told her).

Seeker12, be patient with us. None of us are living up to what Christ as demanded of us. We’re trying. We’re struggling. For what it’s worth: I’m 45 years old and I’ve discovered that it’s a good thing to cut people some slack. Some don’t know any better. Even Christ cut people slack when he was on the cross. He asked God to forgive them for they didn’t know what they were doing. Anybody on this forum or elsewhere…it is the same thing.

Thank you for responding to my posts.

Sue

 

[Seeker12]

I will try to be patient. Also assume less, and trust in God more.
I have learned the prayer of releasing, to God, and I had until now forgotten the wisdom contained therein. This means not trying to “fix” people, and letting them go, leaving them in God’s hands, and trusting the Lord for the outcome. It is so easy to forget, and try to help where help cannot do anything but alienate another from your good intentions. It has happened to me, either as victim or perpetrator (in a benign sense). I am glad in another sense that I misunderstood you. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Hi Seeker.
You made some worth-thinking-about points in your
posts, but do yourself a favor
and get over the defiant, cocky self-righteous spirit
that came through so clearly in your OWN post.

God bless you.

 

[SusanL]

I will try to be patient. Also assume less, and trust in God more.
I have learned the prayer of releasing, to God, and I had until now forgotten the wisdom contained therein. This means not trying to “fix” people, and letting them go, leaving them in God’s hands, and trusting the Lord for the outcome. It is so easy to forget, and try to help where help cannot do anything but alienate another from your good intentions. It has happened to me, either as victim or perpetrator (in a benign sense). I am glad in another sense that I misunderstood you. Thanks for the clarification.

Thank you, Seeker12. It’s hard to not try and “fix” people, isn’t it? Maybe this little analogy I have will help you:

I compare our efforts to the Underground Railroad from the Civil War era. Do you remember history concerning Harriet Tubman?

Harriet Tubman was a slave (here is where I falter. I can’t remember if she was a freed slave or an escaped slave. Anyways, I digress). She was a slave who went back to the South and helped other slaves escape to Canada. There were people who helped her along the way. They were called “stations.” None of the stations knew each other. That was in case if anyone got caught, they couldn’t reveal the others. Harriet Tubman would take the slaves from station to station to station all the way up to Canada. It was a long journey for the slaves.

Ok. Where is my analogy? Here. The people we are hoping to bring to Christ are the slaves. God is Harriet Tubman. (forgive me, Father. LOL) We (you and me) are the stations. God brings people to us. Sometimes it’s people like my friend (the little lost soul) and sometimes it’s people that we might see in the grocery store check-out line. Could be anyone who watches our actions and listens to how we speak. Can they see Christ in us?

God brings these people to us and we do what we can. Then they go to the next station. We might very well never see the results because Canada (heaven, in our case) may not be reached for a long time.

Does this help? I know it sounds silly but it helps me. That is why it is so important to live our faith. Pray hard for people. Be Christ at all times. And let God take the lead. After all. He knows the whole picture.

God bless you and all your efforts.

Sue